How not to take a bend

[219]

He wasn't! I reckon his speed was under 50 mph. How?

Look at st13phil's posted link. You can slow the video down to 25% then watch it frame by frame. In the time the cyclist saw Pratt and stood his bike on the front wheel he had covered 36 meters with a further 20 meters before collision. I don't know how far a cyclist can travel on just the front wheel but it looks to be less than 10 meters, suggesting his speed at point of impact was very low indeed.

In the same time, Pratt's speed had apparently dropped to 57 mph and the cyclist was in view nearly 100 meters away. Pratt was still doing 40 mph and had covered over 50 meters at the point of collision.

Clearly, the cyclist's reaction times were far superior to Pratt's and the poor devil was certainly not expecting the Subaru to go - and stay - on his side of the road.

Derek , were you a biker in the past ?

 

[del320]

Derek , were you a biker in the past ?

No, not as such. Back in the day I had frequent use of a CB250 Dream...
...but only on a provisional. Soon came to the conclusion four wheels better than two!

 

[MrRight]

to be doing 70 around a blind corner is plain irresponsible and silly. I also have a feeling the Pratt was running his scooby on cheap tyres too. I do road trips all the time and on each one I invariably misjudge a few corners but I'm never more than 5mph of excess speed which light braking can fix even in the middle of a corner .

I see many many people who completely disregard the safety of themselves and others and drive way too fast even on single track roads and a few times I've seen people just get plain lucky to avoid a crash.

I see it every time. A few months ago i went up to wales and was on the black mountain pass. this guy in a giant range rover SVR deciding to drive at speeds vehicle had no chance of managing and he couldn't steer around a left hand turn and went right into the oncom ing lane and barely avoided smashing into a brand new A class which had to emergency brake to a halt. On our most recent road trip, there was a guy in a Tesla hitting 80+easily on a single track road which had numerous blind bends that he would have been doing at 60mph at least . plain crazy. should someone coming the other way be driving the same way, it would have been guaranteed carnage. Pratt in his scooby firmly fits into this category of lunatic driver.
dont get me started on the countless people who think it is a good idea to use a racing line on corners on single carriage roads when there is oncoming traffic that will have to brake to allow them back into their lane

 

[Mr. B]

For myself at 65 it reinforces my dislike of that type of dangerous and popular fast road. It will be my new years resolution to avoid the Cat and Fiddle which is our local version.

With respect,
How do you define a dangerous and fast road ? In my mind there is no such thing.
It’s like saying the fast lane on a 3 lane m/way, it doesn’t exists. Roads per se are not dangerous it’s the users who can be a danger to themselves and others because they drive beyond their capabilities, skill level and fail to drive to the conditions of the road.
Certain roads throughout the country are given a bad reputation and are classed as dangerous but in the majority of cases it’s pilot error.
I’m fully aware of the cat and fiddle and have driven and ridden it many times and survived because I drove / rode within my skill level.
Motorists need protecting from themselves hence speed limits.
Theoretically speaking if everybody drove to the conditions of the road and within their capabilities then there would be no need for speed limits.
I suppose I have opened up a can of worms with the above but hey ho that’s what the forums are for, discussion.
Happy motoring

 

[BTB 500]

What was the following car - it must’ve been doing much the same speed to arrive so soon after and capture the collision and the biker landing .

Were they racing ? At least the other driver cornered safely and stopped without running over the biker .

On the video Phil linked to it didn't look like they were racing. Assuming the dashcam speed data was accurate the Subaru 'only' hit 67 mph (which wouldn't merit a FPN under the ACPO guidelines) on the straight leading up to the bend. The following car (an estate of some sort) was a reasonable distance behind and as already mentioned was able to take the bend, slow down and pull over without any apparent drama.

Re. high beam ... I'm generally in favour of bikers being as conspicuous as possible, but having a bike on main beam behind you for any length of time can be pretty annoying as the headlight tends to be pointing squarely at your mirror.

 

[rf065]

Re. high beam ... I'm generally in favour of bikers being as conspicuous as possible, but having a bike on main beam behind you for any length of time can be pretty annoying as the headlight tends to be pointing squarely at your mirror.

I've had bikes all my life and have never felt the need to drive around on high beam. I cannot understand why anyone would think it was acceptable around other traffic.

 

[190]

With respect,
How do you define a dangerous and fast road ? In my mind there is no such thing.
It’s like saying the fast lane on a 3 lane m/way, it doesn’t exists. Roads per se are not dangerous it’s the users who can be a danger to themselves and others because they drive beyond their capabilities, skill level and fail to drive to the conditions of the road.
Certain roads throughout the country are given a bad reputation and are classed as dangerous but in the majority of cases it’s pilot error.
I’m fully aware of the cat and fiddle and have driven and ridden it many times and survived because I drove / rode within my skill level.
Motorists need protecting from themselves hence speed limits.
Theoretically speaking if everybody drove to the conditions of the road and within their capabilities then there would be no need for speed limits.
I suppose I have opened up a can of worms with the above but hey ho that’s what the forums are for, discussion.
Happy motoring

I think you have already answered the question. I'd be quite happy to ride the Cat at my own pace but that won't help if someone comes around a bend on the wrong side of the road as happened when my friend was killed on that very road. The problem I have with the Cat is that it attracts people who want to drive/ride beyond the limit of their ability and that makes it dangerous. But I take your point, it's not the road as much the people it attracks.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

On the video Phil linked to it didn't look like they were racing. Assuming the dashcam speed data was accurate the Subaru 'only' hit 67 mph (which wouldn't merit a FPN under the ACPO guidelines) on the straight leading up to the bend. The following car (an estate of some sort) was a reasonable distance behind and as already mentioned was able to take the bend, slow down and pull over without any apparent drama.

.

The following bikers seemed to arrive at the scene pretty quickly though.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I'd have to respond that when I had my ( 125cc ) bike , I rarely sped .

I’d have to respond that when I had my (650cc) Triumph Bonneville it was before the 70mph NSL, I never got done for speeding

 

[E55BOF]

I'm generally in favour of bikers being as conspicuous as possible, but having a bike on main beam behind you for any length of time can be pretty annoying as the headlight tends to be pointing squarely at your mirror.

Good point, well put, and in that circumstance I'll go to dipped beam. It's not the driver in front of me I'm worried about, it's the one coming towards me, or waiting to come out of a junction into my path; I want to give him or her the best possible chance of not killing me...

I've had bikes all my life and have never felt the need to drive around on high beam. I cannot understand why anyone would think it was acceptable around other traffic.

See above. Do you understand now?

 

[rf065]

Good point, well put, and in that circumstance I'll go to dipped beam. It's not the driver in front of me I'm worried about, it's the one coming towards me, or waiting to come out of a junction into my path; I want to give him or her the best possible chance of not killing me...



See above. Do you understand now?

I still think dipped beam is sufficient, it's not a case of not understanding.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Good point, well put, and in that circumstance I'll go to dipped beam. It's not the driver in front of me I'm worried about, it's the one coming towards me, or waiting to come out of a junction into my path; I want to give him or her the best possible chance of not killing me...



See above. Do you understand now?

This is a subject discussed far and wide on t’Internet and with no definitive answer that I can find. Many bikers argue for high beam in daylight and many argue against (although most notably with their car drivers hats on). There is a school of thought that full beam lights actually mask the presence of a bike against a bright background. I don’t know, but I do know that it hurts when you T-bone a vehicle that turns right into your path because they didn’t see you. It happened to me when a hearse turned into Highgate Cemetery and I discovered that its centre pillar was stronger than my front forks. The passenger in the back of the hearse didn’t comment. It was the middle of the day in a 30 limit and I didn’t have any lights on.

 

[MrRight]

This is a subject discussed far and wide on t’Internet and with no definitive answer that I can find. Many bikers argue for high beam in daylight and many argue against (although most notably with their car drivers hats on). There is a school of thought that full beam lights actually mask the presence of a bike against a bright background. I don’t know, but I do know that it hurts when you T-bone a vehicle that turns right into your path because they didn’t see you. It happened to me when a hearse turned into Highgate Cemetery and I discovered that its centre pillar was stronger than my front forks. The passenger in the back of the hearse didn’t comment.

I think it is because the passenger in the back may have been boxed in

 

[E55BOF]

Or possibly dead to the world.

 

[Ted]

Hope you gave them a stiff talking to.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

With respect,
How do you define a dangerous and fast road ? In my mind there is no such thing.....

There are several roads around the country with warning signs directed specifically at people on motorbikes (I don't recall the details but a pic of a biker and something about dying). Near where I live, there are several along the routes that bikers use to get to Squires Cafe near Sherburn.

Clearly some bikers around the country are a problem and yet some of our biking members choose to get extremely defensive when the subject of dangerous riding comes up. For some reason, their mantra is that they are safer drivers than other drivers.

Bikers leaning into my lane on a left hander (for me) and running wide on right handers (for me) on the B1222 is not uncommon. It has happened so often (I also like to get out on a nice sunny day with the roof open) that I avoid the B1222 on a nice sunny day because there are so many bikes out and about doing stupid stuff (I hasten to add not all bikers but more than enough).

 

[Bellow]

Just had another look at the vids. Not from the following car's footage or Pratt's rear facing camera are there tyre marks, or tyre squealing from the interior cam. I don't think he troubled the asphalt at all - just failed to recognise in time that it deviated from the straight.

It takes a bit to wash the front out on bone dry tarmac with a sports orientated chassis - and even then, when it hooks up again, expect a spin. None of that visible here at all.

 

[leef44]

My only observation is that I was surprised because even in the clip the bike is simply not visible until the very last minute.

Obviously the car was in the wrong lane, but it makes you wonder if bikers appreciate just how invisible they are?

I am not suggesting that the biker had any options here that could have prevented this crash (other than deciding to stay home that day...), but I'm thinking that the only advice I can give - based on life experience that comes with age, not on bike riding experience - is that bikers should look-out for any car around them, assume it will deliberately try and ram them, then always ride like they are trying to avoid being rammed by the other car.

That would be hard work... but I just don't really see what other self-preservation advice I could give.

I know exactly what you mean. Around my area in Surrey there are many large SUVs with drivers who forget that they are driving a heavy vehicle with a relatively high centre of gravity. There are known blind bends in my area where I take it cautiously with the expectation some idiot is going to understeer onto my side of the road.

This has saved me twice to date and that's in 30 mph zone - offending vehicle was probably approaching 40 mph, so not enormous speeds but definitely too fast for the tightness of the bend. That is, in both cases, it would have been a head-on collision if I was doing 30 mph on my side of the road.

 

[E55BOF]

Clearly some bikers around the country are a problem and yet some of our biking members choose to get extremely defensive when the subject of dangerous riding comes up. For some reason, their mantra is that they are safer drivers than other drivers.

Most bikers probably are safer than most car drivers; you have to be, or you'll soon be dead or injured. You just don't get bikers riding along, thumb in bum and mind in neutral, but there are plenty of car drivers like that. That said, though, I suspect you have in mind the ****holes, pretty much invariably young and male on high-powered machines, who treat the roads as though they were racetracks. There are plenty of similar ****holes in high-powered cars, of course, but proportionately far fewer than on bikes. I won't try to defend either.

 

[MrRight]

Just had another look at the vids. Not from the following car's footage or Pratt's rear facing camera are there tyre marks, or tyre squealing from the interior cam. I don't think he troubled the asphalt at all - just failed to recognise in time that it deviated from the straight.

It takes a bit to wash the front out on bone dry tarmac with a sports orientated chassis - and even then, when it hooks up again, expect a spin. None of that visible here at all.

that's a very good observation. one of the challenges especially after underestimating a corner is the sudden g force when the weight starts to lean to the right, it can really affect the driver and his ability to apply the additional steering input to avoid going wide and in this case, the oncoming lane