Is It A Write Off??

[Dave Lewis]

I may not be perfect , but I never make mistakes .

But you do make assumptions, Fred. About the way I drive, about the way we would react if it was a young driver, about Ady's age and relationship with Tracy. Assumptions can be dangerous, particularly if you assume that somebody signalling is actually going to make the turn......

And please, I find your age-ist comments offensive. I for one would appreciate it it you toned them down a bit. Thanks!

 

[del320]

I agree with all of this. It's about risk assessment, based on experience. This process of risk assessment, and a bit of patience, has stood me in good stead over the last 38 years of driving, since I have never been involved in an accident (yet!), and never caused one.

If I might also chip in, agreeing with the views of Dave and Mr E. I too have 40 years of accident-free motoring, though I musn't tempt fate. I admit to driving outwith the law and having my share of bad habits, but experience, observation and anticipation have all worked so far.

Actually, whilst I am religious about indicating my intentions to following traffic, I'm pretty lax about using indicators for the benefit of vehicles coming towards me, for the very reasons already discussed. I never believe the intentions of others and they are fools if they believe mine.

I am also guilty of appearing to cut across the paths of others, whether at junctions or roundabouts when I know there is ample room and no possibility of striking the other vehicle. Sadly, many do not know their car's capabilities and are unable to visualise distances or closing speeds. They are damned for being either reckless or timid when making such manoeuvres.

Mrs Del, a non-driver, sometimes expresses surprise about my apparent ability to predict the actions of others. Nothing clever on my part - inconsistent speed, weaving, excessive head movements, unnecessary braking - and yes, the drivers' age and make of car often have a bearing on risk assessment.

Rather more than merely a flashing indicator.

 

[gina2201]

I'm sure if you pulled out onto the main road whilst someone appeared to be indicating to turn into you road in your test you would get a "MAJOR" and fail, I always wait, I've seen it happen, countless times I have followed cars/vans etc with indicator on oblivious to it.

I would rather wait a few seconds and risk being labelled a "dawdler" than risk my and other peoples lives, at least I'll be a living one.

 

[fredfloggle]

But you do make assumptions, Fred. About the way I drive, about the way we would react if it was a young driver, about Ady's age and relationship with Tracy. Assumptions can be dangerous, particularly if you assume that somebody signalling is actually going to make the turn......

And please, I find your age-ist comments offensive. I for one would appreciate it it you toned them down a bit. Thanks!

It is a fact of life - let us dispense with the PC for a bit , we all get old , and a result of this is we tend to lose some our our coordination and ability . Now anyone who can't face that or accept it and take action really IS a danger , these are the people who don't know when to quit when the time has come .

Yes I assumed that Tracey was related to Ady - but note the difference , no harm done . I assume that the driver in front of me and behind me are mentally competent to drive , I HAVE to assume this , if not , I wouldn't risk motorway driving , or indeed any driving above walking pace - what has happened to England that everything has slipped so and that standards are now so poor ?

Using your slightly strange bifurcated reasoning , if I don't assume that anyone signalling intends to actually carry out that maneuver , then I should assume that they don't , therefore should I wait until they actually make the turn ?- back to you David .

 

[andy_k]

as usual Fred, you seem to have taken a slightly confrontational approach.

None of us except Tracy knows the full version of what happened we are all basing our opinions on what we have been told by an understandably biased third party.

As far as I can tell, the only fact we are fully aware of is that a young driver pulled out of a side road into the path of an oncoming vehicle being driven by an older person and there was a collision.

Andy

 

[fredfloggle]

I'm sure if you pulled out onto the main road whilst someone appeared to be indicating to turn into you road in your test you would get a "MAJOR" and fail, I always wait, I've seen it happen, countless times I have followed cars/vans etc with indicator on oblivious to it.

I would rather wait a few seconds and risk being labelled a "dawdler" than risk my and other peoples lives, at least I'll be a living one.

Honestly , we aren't talking about risking anyones life , where did I say "pull out in front of that 38 ton truck travelling at 90 MPH just because he is indicating " ?

It is all about exercising sensible judgement .

You will also fail for hesitation - so a balance is required .

 

[fredfloggle]

as usual Fred, you seem to have taken a slightly confrontational approach.

None of us except Tracy knows the full version of what happened we are all basing our opinions on what we have been told by an understandably biased third party.

As far as I can tell, the only fact we are fully aware of is that a young driver pulled out of a side road into the path of an oncoming vehicle being driven by an older person and there was a collision.

Andy

Quite right

I only read
"Tracy went to take her documents down to the Police station for the producer she got for Friday nights incident. When someone slowed and was signalling to turn left just at the end of our road she pulled out and he drove straight into her"


There was also something about not knowing where he was

"he was a bit confused I think anyway he didn't know where he lived or his insurance company so Tracy called the Police the Police turned up and got some details off him by phoning his nursing home"


So , the police had to get his details by phoning the nursing home , and Tracey says he was signalling , she also mentioned he carried on for a bit without stopping - I say again , that if a young guy did the same , he would be hung out to dry , I just hope that no child crosses the road in front of him .....

 

[andy_k]

Quite right

good at least we agree on that part

When someone slowed and was signalling to turn left just at the end of our road she pulled out and he drove straight into her

that and all the rest of your post is based on hearsay. None of us were there so we cannot be sure of any of the details.

We don't even know if he was signalling to turn do we? (as it tuned out he wasn't) or why he was slowing down - perhaps he saw a car pulling out of a side street which already had a big dent on the corner

A young person was involved in this incident and as she was the one who pulled out into oncoming traffic she's the one who appears to be in the wrong based on the facts we have been given

Unless of course you know different Fred.



Andy

 

[gina2201]

Honestly , we aren't talking about risking anyones life , where did I say "pull out in front of that 38 ton truck travelling at 90 MPH just because he is indicating " ?

It is all about exercising sensible judgement .

You will also fail for hesitation - so a balance is required .

Can I ask where you got a 38 ton truck from or 90mph? Not my post I can tell you, and that is completely off the point of my post.

All I am saying is this: If a car within close proximity is indicating to turn into my road, I would wait until they have done so or have driven past.

 

[andy_k]

It is all about exercising sensible judgement

where does the original incident in this post fit in with that comment Fred?

My understanding of "sensible judgement" doesn't involve another car driving into you

I've just looked at the damage to Tracy's car again and re-read the post.

From the look of the damage it's a relatively low speed impact and for the car to be damaged where it was Tracy must have been turning right across the path of the oncoming car, - the front right corner of her car was where the impact was so she must have pulled out pretty late.

Something's not quite right here

We need more info

Andy

 

[Dave Lewis]

It is a fact of life - let us dispense with the PC for a bit , we all get old , and a result of this is we tend to lose some our our coordination and ability .

Of course. What I was objecting to was your use of terms such as "crumblies", "old duffers" etc.

- what has happened to England that everything has slipped so and that standards are now so poor ?

We need better driver training, I agree.

Using your slightly strange bifurcated reasoning , if I don't assume that anyone signalling intends to actually carry out that maneuver , then I should assume that they don't , therefore should I wait until they actually make the turn ?- back to you David .

I've already explained about risk assessment based on experience. My post on assumptions had a winky on the end of it

 

[Mr E]

We've also forgotten that the dotted lines at the junction mean "Give Way". This means that you "give way" to vehicles on the road that you are joining. If there is another vehicle present it is therefore up to the person joining the road to show due care - which includes making various judgements based on individual circumstances. An indicator is just that - and indication, not a statement of fact.

The purpose (according to the Highway Code) of the left-hand indicator is "I intend to move in to the left or turn left or stop on the left" - so the assumption that someone is turning left, even at a junction, is a false one; there is the alternative of either moving in to the left or pulling over and stopping (maybe before or after the junction).

I'll state my assumptions - FF's has the total skills of a world-class professional driver, is blessed with perfect 20:20 vision and extra-sensory perception. Therefore it must be safe for him to pull out whenever he sees an indicator flash because he is always right........

Mind you, we all know about ASSuME, don't we.......

 

[Brian WH]

As has been said - There but the grace of God etc.

I have had two similar incidents and fortunately got away with both without any damage.

The first was in London. I was driving a motorcycle and waiting to turn right onto a main road. Along comes a Police Car indicating left into my road ( thought). Well I pulled out and just missed him as he went straight on.
He gave me a dirty look as if it was my fault, my look was even dirtier I can tell you.

The second was more recently. I was again waiting to turn left out of my local road onto a country lane. A bus was approaching and suddenly indicated left and slowed down. So I pulled out across his path and he braked hard and blew his horn, I accelerated and missed him. He was going straight on and was indicating to pull up at a bus-stop fifty yards beyond the turning. In my defence I would say that 80% of traffic on that road turn left into this road, but I always wait till they slow down before I pull out.

 

[ADY1983]

where does the original incident in this post fit in with that comment Fred?

My understanding of "sensible judgement" doesn't involve another car driving into you

I've just looked at the damage to Tracy's car again and re-read the post.

From the look of the damage it's a relatively low speed impact and for the car to be damaged where it was Tracy must have been turning right across the path of the oncoming car, - the front right corner of her car was where the impact was so she must have pulled out pretty late.

Something's not quite right here

We need more info

Andy

Andy, as you said none of us were there including me, it was a very slow impact, according to the women behind the Astra he didn't make much of an effort in braking (slow reactions??) and since its a very straight road 40 zone I can understand why Tracy would have pulled out...

You forget Andy when you said that maybe he wasn't signalling or going slow there is whiteness and my sister in the car so I have no reason to doubt Tracy even though she should have waited a few moments longer...

 

[Dieselman]

As has been said - There but the grace of God etc.

I have had two similar incidents and fortunately got away with both without any damage.

The first was in London. I was driving a motorcycle and waiting to turn right onto a main road. Along comes a Police Car indicating left into my road ( thought). Well I pulled out and just missed him as he went straight on.
He gave me a dirty look as if it was my fault, my look was even dirtier I can tell you.

The second was more recently. I was again waiting to turn left out of my local road onto a country lane. A bus was approaching and suddenly indicated left and slowed down. So I pulled out across his path and he braked hard and blew his horn, I accelerated and missed him. He was going straight on and was indicating to pull up at a bus-stop fifty yards beyond the turning. In my defence I would say that 80% of traffic on that road turn left into this road, but I always wait till they slow down before I pull out.

But you would have been in the wrong on both occasions if it had come to crunch time.

I am very surprised to read anyone saying that the driver pulling out has any rights to move at all given there is moving traffic on a main road.
Whether indicating or not a vahicle on a main road has the right of way. An indication is just that, an indication, it isn't fact.

Like a few others when reading these posts in this thread I find fredfloggles posts to be offensive and typically aregumentative, for no good reason.
Fred for once in your life admit you are wrong..
Just for the record I'm am not a dithering old crusty or dodder from doddersville, just think you should excercise some restraint and reasoning in your posts.
Bragging that people haven't seen you "Let me assure you that you have never heard me rant or rave" isn't something an adult should be proud of.

I fully appreciate this will get you going but so be it, I've switched off to your ranting a lont time ago..it clouds your message.

 

[Brian WH]

But you would have been in the wrong on both occasions if it had come to crunch time.

I am very surprised to read anyone saying that the driver pulling out has any rights to move at all given there is moving traffic on a main road.
Whether indicating or not a vehicle on a main road has the right of way. An indication is just that, an indication, it isn't fact.

I didn't say I was right, but an indication is just that, an "indication of intention" so it is right to assume they meant it. I always wait to see if they slow down to see if that "intention" is really what they mean. I have stayed out of trouble by doing so for many years mate.




By the way fredfloggle/Dieselman/Andy_K - Please do not continue this argument as I will be forced to close this post.

We all have our opinions but do not need to force them down peoples throats. Be nice to each other and don't spoil a decent discussion. Thanks

 

[ADY1983]

I didn't say I was right, but an indication is just that, an "indication of intention" so it is right to assume they meant it. I always wait to see if they slow down to see if that "intention" is really what they mean. I have stayed out of trouble by doing so for many years mate.




By the way fredfloggle/Dieselman/Andy_K - Please do not continue this argument as I will be forced to close this post.

We all have our opinions but do not need to force them down peoples throats. Be nice to each other and don't spoil a decent discussion. Thanks

Also please try and leave Tracy out of the argument as people have said lots of us have done it...

 

[glojo]

Also please try and leave Tracy out of the argument as people have said lots of us have done it...

Well said and a big thank you for your tolerance on what has developed.

Plkease pass on our thoughts to your partner, because like you have said, "There but for the grace of...."

Kind regards
John

 

[Dave Lewis]

Sorry for hijacking your thread Ady
Hope you get it all sorted out satisfactorily.

 

[jeremytaylor]

God a Renault 16 ....now we are going back in time......lovely seats....

All those years later, I can still smell the black plastic seats of Dad's R16 - his had lovely metallic bronze paint.