Jag

[jasonyw]

Jason

Whats your beef with Jaguar?

Don't call it British when it Indian. Who are they trying to con?

 

[stumpy1]

I went to a pre-launch party with some other chauffeurs a few months back for the new XJ. When you run vehicles for a living you can be totally objective about it as it is just a tool for a job. I can honestly say that Jag have missed several tricks when designing its S Class competitor from a clean sheet.

For A LWB car space was simply too tight in the back and the lack of reclining rear seats is a strange omission. The boot is also too small and a funny shape to cater for the endless airport runs we do. Those are fairly major objective criticisms of this new to market model.

Subjectively I agree the interior ambience knocks spots off the S Class and the drivetrain I gather is better than the S Class (not hard now they have fecked it up with blue-deficiency). The ride on the S Class is as good as a Rolls though where the Jag has gone all sporty.

I think it shouldve been fairly easy for Jag to have produced a ground breaking car now that all the competition have shown their cards, but they just haven't.

Lastly, the simple fact remains, that in the time I have been in my business no-one has EVER called up and asked for a Jag to pick them up, and in the last 12 months, I have only booked two 7'ers for that matter. That is the dominance of the S Class the Jag is up against. I wish them luck of course but I feel they have already failed somewhat.

 

[Bellow]

Get real. Tata are ten minutes old. Jaguar are 65 years old.

Tata was founded in 1868.

Tata Group | Our heritage

An Indian company disguised as British.

And in this context, one of perception, I stand by what I say. Tata do not have a heritage.

Don't call it British when it Indian. Who are they trying to con?

And yes, there is a great deal of affection in this country for Jaguar, in much the same way there is a fondness of Sir Stirling Moss. There is nothing wrong with that. It was 65 years in the making and what Tata bought into, precisely for what it is.
Jaguar touches all the British cultural reference points of the last 50 years. From gangsters to prime ministers, Jaguar cars have been there. Le Mans to E-Type and back to Le Mans again, Jaguar. In films broadcast around the globe, Jaguar. That is hardly an exhaustive list. But heritage richer than a king nonetheless.
Outside of India, who had even heard of Tata prior to the Jaguar buy out?

 

[jasonyw]

And in this context, one of perception, I stand by what I say. Tata do not have a heritage.





And yes, there is a great deal of affection in this country for Jaguar, in much the same way there is a fondness of Sir Stirling Moss. There is nothing wrong with that. It was 65 years in the making and what Tata bought into, precisely for what it is.
Jaguar touches all the British cultural reference points of the last 50 years. From gangsters to prime ministers, Jaguar cars have been there. Le Mans to E-Type and back to Le Mans again, Jaguar. In films broadcast around the globe, Jaguar. That is hardly an exhaustive list. But heritage richer than a king nonetheless.
Outside of India, who had even heard of Tata prior to the Jaguar buy out?

Yes I have 35 years ago, trucks and buses.

 

[Donk]

Don't call it British when it Indian. Who are they trying to con?

Geely from China 'own' Volvo, Tata own Land Rover and Jaguar, are you saying that a Volvo is chinese and Land Rover is Indian as well or are you just talking about the parent companies / funding?

The funding comes from overseas yes, but the cars are designed and built in Sweden / Britain. Its just business and there are probably loads of examples outside of the motor industry where this happens, its nothing new. Having a cash boost enables the brands to develop and grow rather than wither and die under cash starved parent companies. Ultimately this benefits us all as it gives us as consumers choice, and in my view thats OK.

 

[flango]

I went to a pre-launch party with some other chauffeurs a few months back for the new XJ. When you run vehicles for a living you can be totally objective about it as it is just a tool for a job. I can honestly say that Jag have missed several tricks when designing its S Class competitor from a clean sheet.

For A LWB car space was simply too tight in the back and the lack of reclining rear seats is a strange omission. The boot is also too small and a funny shape to cater for the endless airport runs we do. Those are fairly major objective criticisms of this new to market model.

Subjectively I agree the interior ambience knocks spots off the S Class and the drivetrain I gather is better than the S Class (not hard now they have fecked it up with blue-deficiency). The ride on the S Class is as good as a Rolls though where the Jag has gone all sporty.

I think it shouldve been fairly easy for Jag to have produced a ground breaking car now that all the competition have shown their cards, but they just haven't.

Lastly, the simple fact remains, that in the time I have been in my business no-one has EVER called up and asked for a Jag to pick them up, and in the last 12 months, I have only booked two 7'ers for that matter. That is the dominance of the S Class the Jag is up against. I wish them luck of course but I feel they have already failed somewhat.

It's not put up against the S class it bridges the gap between a E and an S that where the marketing guys pitch it.

My normal car in Germany (Company Chauffeur) is an S65 and that is awesome, sometimes its an E Class diesel not sure what as its unbadged but powerful, an sometimes a BMW 730d so I have been in a few LWB cars as a customer.

I agree it is not in S class territory, which is where the previous XJ is pitched but you are bang on room in the back is very tight compared to an S class, boot is a strange shape which if I am with more than one colleague was a problem. Ride is indeed harder than the S but thats not a bad thing saves the travel sickness on a fast airport run

Jag is a great car but is no S class as I said earlier

 

[Sonny Burnett]

But it's a f*ckin quick Vectra Ex Police unmarked car still with all the toys used for driver training, reason? If you bend it, it is very cheap to put right and also its a perfectly balanced car for teaching security driving you can throw the weight from one end to the other for J turns etc.. Try doing that in a C63 and see where it gets you I think MB forgot all the lessons about weight ditribution with that car, compare it to a BMW M5 ( little bit unfair I know) its not in the same league in terms of balance and technology but I agree it's better than an M3.

Yes it is MB Forum but its not exclusive to MB thats for instance is why there are sections like off topic, general discussion and other Marques.

I love MB but am not blinkered to the excellent achievements some of the other manufacturers have made both in the present and in the past.

Oh and regards the signature there will be a 380 bhp Audi A8 joining the line up shortly (Bugger thats not an MB either is it )



........... dashes off to join Audi Forum as did not realise it was mandatory to only speak of MB on these hallowed pages, my sincere apologies to all who may have been offended.

hey you want to wast money on FWD be my guest. my father in law has that car and to be honest its not cheap to fix rather expensive in fact, and the service is 10x worse than a benz stealer. just a bad car in every respect really, have a good time posting on the audi forum say hello to all the essex chavs while ya on there.

 

[flango]

hey you want to wast money on FWD be my guest. my father in law has that car and to be honest its not cheap to fix rather expensive in fact, and the service is 10x worse than a benz stealer. just a bad car in every respect really, have a good time posting on the audi forum say hello to all the essex chavs while ya on there.

It is cheap to fix when you own a garage & motorsport business so why the hell would I go anywhere near a stealer, we actually do the majority of Vauxhall stealer work on cars over 3 years old near us because the dealer does not have the skill to do it.

FWD is perfect for teaching advanced driving, I also teach skid control in a BMW 5 series as well so people can feel and experience the difference between RWD & FWD.

The Essex chavs say hi by the way, but to let you know most of them have outgrown there Audis and now drive MB C Class Coupes or the CLC (which in there street lingo stands for Complete Loda Crap)

 

[gIzzE]

I am the only Merc owner on the street, I get the feeling be able to afford one attained some affordability.:bannana:

I have read that sentence over and over and still can't make out what you are saying there?

 

[Sonny Burnett]

It is cheap to fix when you own a garage & motorsport business so why the hell would I go anywhere near a stealer, we actually do the majority of Vauxhall stealer work on cars over 3 years old near us because the dealer does not have the skill to do it.

FWD is perfect for teaching advanced driving, I also teach skid control in a BMW 5 series as well so people can feel and experience the difference between RWD & FWD.

The Essex chavs say hi by the way, but to let you know most of them have outgrown there Audis and now drive MB C Class Coupes or the CLC (which in there street lingo stands for Complete Loda Crap)

oh right, last time i checked they couldn't afford them sort of cars, but a audi is about right. sorry dude its fact. audi is the car of choice for the chav, or seat, or VW, but there all the same anyway.

 

[flango]

oh right, last time i checked they couldn't afford them sort of cars, but a audi is about right. sorry dude its fact. audi is the car of choice for the chav, or seat, or VW, but there all the same anyway.

You checked you mean you ventured into our chavland? You not keeping up with used car prices, MB much cheaper than Audi these days hence the switch. Take it we wont see you at our lakeside meet then

Could offer you some driving lessons in the Astra (Sorry Vectra) in negotiating multi story car parks at 1am in the morning at high speed.

Oh and you will see from my other thread I am going to buy an Audi A3 for my daughter so that will be another Chavette then even though she will be going to Oxford


Bugger Audi A8 and an A3 seriously must p*ss off to the Audi Forum

 

[flango]

audi,seat, or VW, but there all the same anyway.

Mercedes, Smart, Sang Yong, Chrysler Crossfire, all the same anyway ? Discuss

At least the other German Marque have the balls to brand them as the VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group)

 

[Palmball]

Try doing that in a C63 and see where it gets you I think MB forgot all the lessons about weight ditribution with that car, compare it to a BMW M5 ( little bit unfair I know) its not in the same league in terms of balance and technology but I agree it's better than an M3.

Ahem!

I think it's my time to pipe up here...given I've owned all 3 of the cars mentioned (well nearly, I had an M6 not an M5) during the last couple of years!

Firstly, C63 weight distribution is 54F/46R so its hardly what you'd call unbalanced! I'm no expert on Vectra's but I'd be suprised if they weren't even more front end heavy...especially the 'fast' ones

Anyway, to address what I feel is incorrect information given above based on my last couple of years experience. In comparison to the M5/M6, the C63 actually a much 'nicer' car...with a much better gearbox and more nimble handling to boot! My previous M6 (which was much lighter than an M5) wasn't exactly the greatest driving car I've ever had by some margin, hence I sold it after 6 months! The C63 compares very favourably against it...I guess you've not driven either of them otherwise you'd unlikely make the comments you have above??

In contrast to what you've said, and in respect to 'balance', what the C63 is not as good as is the M3!! It certainly won't go round a track or pin its nose into an apex as well as an M3 - it's much heavier and feels it round tight corners. But it's still balanced enough to be better than most cars and is an extremely good 'road' car! But of course, I wouldn't dream of thinking that it could do J-Turn as well as a Vectra could...what was I thinking to not consider that when I bought it

Now, I'll try and get over that....and continue enjoying my 6.2 V8!


Right...that Jag. I think it's a lovely car and when I see them on the road they have so much presence - I actually think it looks awesome and very individual, if not traditionally pretty. If it drives anything like the XFR then its going to be very good indeed!

If I was in the market for that sort of car and was about 10 years older then it would be very near the top of my list...and thats not something I could ever have said about the old XJ!

Although, at risk of sounding like Top Gear, the Maserati Quattroporte is still the most 'desirable' car to me in the large saloon class despite the fact that its unlikely to be as technically well engineered as the German equivalents.

 

[blondebier]

Don't call it British when it Indian. Who are they trying to con?

I guess MB must be made by a load of Americans then.

Are they trying to kid us too?

 

[Bellow]

Yes I have 35 years ago, trucks and buses.

You and no one else.
Trucks and buses. Where are the luxury cars, the sports cars, the Le Mans winners?
Jaguar are as British as Buckingham Palace. No matter who owns the title deeds.
Your choice to hold a grudge against them, but a Jaguar tugs the heart in a way a clinically precise MB never can. Fair enough, that was never the intention of MB, to build emotive cars. But don't knock Jaguar for having soul.

In the greater scheme of things a revitalised Jaguar is good for everyone. It will make BMW, MB, Audi, etc sit up, take notice, and question their same old same old policy. Greater choice! For those who relish choosing at least, can only be a good thing.

 

[vincenz]

Don't call it British when it Indian. Who are they trying to con?

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here?

It doesn't matter whom the parent company is, Jaguar Cars Limited is still a British company with a head quarters in Coventry.

By British I mean they produce cars in Britain with British engineers and support British suppliers.
Of course theres going to be other companies from overseas involved, Bosch wiper blades, seats made in Poland etc. But you should be proud we still do this as a country as it generates a lot of income for the country as a whole.

Whether you like the brand or not is your opinion but theres no need for complete and utter bull**** of they're build on Ford mondeos etc.

Unless you are a cretin. Which the juries still out on.

 

[Bellow]

If Jaguar were promoting their cars with a Union Jack flag in every corner of every advertisement then perhaps some criticism would be valid.
But they aren't. The cars are selling on sheer desirability.

 

[PeterS]

Don't call it British when it Indian. Who are they trying to con?

This is my understanding of the shareholding structure of Daimler Benz.
by Ownership [12]

Aabar Investments (United Arab Emirates): 9.1%
Kuwait Investment Authority (Kuwait): 6.9%
Renault (France): 1.55%
Nissan (Japan): 1.55%
Institutional investors: 60.4%
Private Investors: 20.4%
Treasury Shares: 0.1%
by Region [12]

30.0% Germany
33.5% Other Europe
17.9% United States
9.1% United Arab Emirates
6.9% Kuwait
2.6% Others

We live in a global corporate world, who really cares who owns whom as long as the cars drive well.

Many companies would have simply gone to the wall without a buy out from overseas or remained undercapitalised with cr&p products being churned out and relying on heritage/brand loyalty till they go bust. Rover was thrown a lifeline by BMW, look what happened to it after they sold out to a UK Consortium.

Re Jaguar, a british guy called Mike Cross, is one of the main guys involved in the development of Jaguar cars/chassis and I don't think he is from the sub-continent. Even if he was who cares as long as he is doing a good job.

 

[jasonyw]

I have read that sentence over and over and still can't make out what you are saying there?

Simple. Not everyone can afford a Merc. It a nobility to be a merc owner. I am the only Merc owner on my street.

 

[jasonyw]

This is my understanding of the shareholding structure of Daimler Benz.
by Ownership [12]

Aabar Investments (United Arab Emirates): 9.1%
Kuwait Investment Authority (Kuwait): 6.9%
Renault (France): 1.55%
Nissan (Japan): 1.55%
Institutional investors: 60.4%
Private Investors: 20.4%
Treasury Shares: 0.1%
by Region [12]

30.0% Germany
33.5% Other Europe
17.9% United States
9.1% United Arab Emirates
6.9% Kuwait
2.6% Others

We live in a global corporate world, who really cares who owns whom as long as the cars drive well.

Many companies would have simply gone to the wall without a buy out from overseas or remained undercapitalised with cr&p products being churned out and relying on heritage/brand loyalty till they go bust. Rover was thrown a lifeline by BMW, look what happened to it after they sold out to a UK Consortium.

Re Jaguar, a british guy called Mike Cross, is one of the main guys involved in the development of Jaguar cars/chassis and I don't think he is from the sub-continent. Even if he was who cares as long as he is doing a good job.

My mercs are made in Germany with quality that why I bought it!

Jag are craps managed by shrewd and pinchy Indians. All they are interested are profit like Satyam.