New to the Forum, but thrilled to be soon getting our 4th Merc

[glojo]

At the Kent GTG Steve programmed Greg's Mirrors to folding when the car was locked!!

It certainly seems strange that in a number of models this brilliant option is available??? but by default switched off\made unavailable by the manufacturer.

I have no idea about the E-class but clearly Steve is the man and he is able to activate this very worthwhile option.

John

 

[Diapason]

Have you read and re-read your manual? Boring but very necessary.

On the steering wheel simply page through the various functions until the Convienance options are highlighted. Select this, then page through the various options. No mention of folding mirrors, then it is not there.

John,

Many thanks.

No, there is no mention of the folding mirrors in the convenience menu now, which there is on the menu on the A-Class. Since it's obviously 'just' a matter of switching off the option in software, one wonders what Mercedes have saved by the omission. Two possibilities which strike me are: 1) that the feature does, in some way, wear out the mirror motors and thus causes claims down the line (however, I would have thought that the parking feature would therefore do the same if this were the case); 2) that the feature is the subject of a patent by another company (in this case, switching off the feature - although saving nothing in hardware costs - could remove MB's liability to a royalty). Given the evidence, it could well be the latter of these two.

I'm intrigued by your comment that lots of basic features have been removed since 2004. What other things am I missing here?

Nonetheless, I am absolutely thrilled with the car.

All the best,

Simon

 

[glojo]

I'm intrigued by your comment that lots of basic features have been removed since 2004. What other things am I missing here?

Nonetheless, I am absolutely thrilled with the car.

All the best,

Simon

Many months ago I typed out the list, but I'm blowed if I can find it.

Have you got the 4-zone Thermotronic Climate control?

If so I will have to post pictures of the controls because the 05 E-class had less options regarding the use of it.

Puddle lights
Your car has indicator lights in the wing mirrors. In the base of the wing mirror do you have courtesy lights that come on when the doors are opened?

I accept you have the lights on the underside of the doors, or I might have got this set-up back to front.

SBC
SBC is a brilliant feature in its own right, SBC Hold and SBC Stop are merely icing on the cake. Do you have SBC Stop? This is a feature that can be used in slow moving traffic, when you lift your foot off the throttle the car stops and will remain stationary until the throttle is applied. SBC Hold is the feature where we do not need to apply the handbrake (footbrake )

The list is much longer but all the items are very minor and if you have never had them you will not miss them. Plus the Thermotronic is a cost option that has merely been cut down.

It is always difficult to keep abreast of what is being withdrawn, because new owners have never seen the older version and us older owners do not play in depth with the newer cars.

On your heater controls is there a REST button (Right hand temperature control button) There probably is, but I am racking my brain desperately trying to remember what the differences are.

No doubt Mr Trevor Tyrell will simply say do a search through my old posts

How many pages are there in your basic manual? The very last number on mine is 536 these describe all the options, so the more pages the more options\basic features there are to describe.

I will try to see if I can find the differences and get back to you. Incidentally, the US 211 owners were always complaining about NEVER having the folding mirror option, so could we have been dragged down to there level?

The E-class is certainly a very nice car, but oh so common We have just had new folks move into a house just two doors away and they have a.......... Tealitte blue 320CDI Avantgarde estate just one month newer than ours??? Unbelieveable. They are truly a family with good taste

Regards,
John

 

[Rory]

The lack of auto-folding mirrors is an issue on the C Class, but on the very latest models it can be programmed using Star Diagnose because those models have the latest door control modules fitted.
To get a C Class that includes auto-folding mirrors from the factory, I think you have to have the memory seat option. Maybe MB have done the same thing on the E Class?

Not having them auto fold is nothing short of stupid - whenever the car is parked kerb-side, you need the mirror to safely get out of the car, so you can't fold it using the button. In fact they could have saved the cost of the buttons, by making the mirrors auto-fold as standard.

 

[Diapason]

Many months ago I typed out the list, but I'm blowed if I can find it.

Have you got the 4-zone Thermotronic Climate control?

Puddle lights
Your car has indicator lights in the wing mirrors. In the base of the wing mirror do you have courtesy lights that come on when the doors are opened?

I accept you have the lights on the underside of the doors, or I might have got this set-up back to front.

SBC
SBC is a brilliant feature in its own right, SBC Hold and SBC Stop are merely icing on the cake. Do you have SBC Stop? This is a feature that can be used in slow moving traffic, when you lift your foot off the throttle the car stops and will remain stationary until the throttle is applied. SBC Hold is the feature where we do not need to apply the handbrake (footbrake )
On your heater controls is there a REST button (Right hand temperature control button) There probably is, but I am racking my brain desperately trying to remember what the differences are.

How many pages are there in your basic manual? The very last number on mine is 536 these describe all the options, so the more pages the more options\basic features there are to describe.

The E-class is certainly a very nice car, but oh so common We have just had new folks move into a house just two doors away and they have a.......... Tealitte blue 320CDI Avantgarde estate just one month newer than ours??? Unbelieveable. They are truly a family with good taste

John,

Many thanks for your note.

To answer your questions:

Yes, I do have the four-zone Thermotronic climate control, and yes, it does have the REST control. One feature it appears to lack (which was included in the ML implementations) is the MONO feature - which allows you to set the temperature of the whole car with one dial. If I want to change all seats, then I have to (effectively) adjust four controls.

Lights. I have lights under all the doors, for certain. I can't remember seeing light from the wing mirrors, but I could be wrong. I'll check tomorrow - it's too cold to go outside now!!

The basic manual has 392 pages, Comand adds 332, and Linguatronic an additional 54. Sound like your manual has a lot more in it.

Loads of people round here have an E-class, and I don't mind a bit. Just the same as when I get off a plane the world over and I find that I'm offered a Mercedes taxi - I'd choose one anyday. And as for the colour - it's so tasteful, why doesn't everyone chose it.

All the best,

Simon

 

[Diapason]

John,

I should have replied, by the way, that my braking system doesn't have SBC stop. It only has SBC Hold - which is great. Would I have been equally impressed with the Stop feature?

All the best,

Simon

 

[glojo]

John,

I should have replied, by the way, that my braking system doesn't have SBC stop. It only has SBC Hold - which is great. Would I have been equally impressed with the Stop feature?

All the best,

Simon

No

Obviously it is down to individual taste but my wife doesn't like it and hasn't bothered to get used to it. SBC Hold is an excellent feature which strangely has never been installed on US 211's yet it is these owners that moan the most about SBC.

I will get to posting pictures of the different options later today.

Bye for now,
John

 

[glojo]

I haven't given up and the ultimate independant expert has come to my rescue

Steve of MBenzNL fame has posted the following information. This man is a wizard on modern Mercedes-Benz and where Mercedes-Benz dealerships say fitting certain options post delivery is impossible, this man will simply grin and do the job... Perfectly.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


the puddle lights in the mirrors were already taken out a long while ago...together with the removal of these puddle lights mercedes started to use different door control modules in which the TWO PINS for the puddle lights are missing (eventhough the DCM itself STILL has the coding for it that can be activated).

The 2006 models no longer come with isolation material on the inside of the doorpanels...

The 2006 models do not have a clip on the backside of the HK badge anymore...MB saved 0.01 cent on that clip and just bend the 2 pins that go through the speaker grating

The (US spec) 2005/2006 models had quite some coding taken out of the instrument cluster...depending on model (211 - 219) and exact build date it differs per car but some of the previously available menus that were taken out are:
- changing from CELSIUS to FAHRENHEIT
- changing from AM/PM to 24H display
- easy entry for the seat (steering column is still there)
- limitted opening of the trunkcloser
- auto folding mirror feature when locking the car
...and some other basic menus that I already forgot about...

The climate control unit was changed a while ago as well - plenty of info on that on this forum...

the distronic setup was changed a while ago (somewhen during 2004)...
the parktronic displays were changed somewhen in 2004 (the newer displays have one additional LED on the inside)...

...and so on...

greetingz,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Some of this only applies to US models and he has missed out both the Charcoal filter switching and the REST

Plus of course SBC Stop

so you can see that there have been a number of items removed and again it is in my opinion all about saving a few pence. I understand what your saying about intellectual copyright, but don't understand.

I mean that in the nicest of ways. What I mean is, I have no knowledge, or undrstanding of intellectual copyright in regard to motor vehicles.

If one manufacturer was to say my car was the first to have two headlights and no one else can have them, is this what you mean? e.g. Puddle lights under exterior mirrors. The common rail direct injection system? What a leap forward in diesel technology.

Regards
John the inquisitive

Edit:

Rather than post a new message I have attached the scanned image from our manual. Have you got button number 9?

 

[DieselE]

The E-class is certainly a very nice car, but oh so common We have just had new folks move into a house just two doors away and they have a.......... Tealitte blue 320CDI Avantgarde estate just one month newer than ours??? Unbelieveable. They are truly a family with good taste

Regards,
John

They really are common in Torquay. My wife & I had a short break in Devon last week and two days running the car at the head of the taxi rank on the prom was a W211 320CDi in Tealite Blue; Avantgarde trim; COMAND; Parktronic and Panoramic sunroof (and that was just what I could see from a quick glance outside). It was only the "taxi" badge on the roof that ruined it. I can see why you like living in that part of the world, John

Peter

 

[DieselE]

John,

My 320CDi is a 2005 model year with 4 zone climate control. The activated charcoal filter has gone when compared to your picture above. The AC Off button is in that place. Whereas on your car the Residual Heat Control is combined with AC Off, it is a separate switch on mine.

Peter

 

[glojo]

John,

My 320CDi is a 2005 model year with 4 zone climate control. The activated charcoal filter has gone when compared to your picture above. The AC Off button is in that place. Whereas on your car the Residual Heat Control is combined with AC Off, it is a separate switch on mine.

Peter

Cheap old thing flog it as a taxi and buy a decent 2004 model

My list is getting quite long, but they are all petty things.

The next things to check are:

shelf in glove compartment
pull-strap on fold-down rear armrest

I have been told both these have been removed. Hopefully I will take a picture of the wing mirror tomorrow.

If you were in Torquay and not Newquay (inside joke for Swiss Toni) You should have let us know you were in the area.

Thanks for the update,
John

 

[Diapason]

The (US spec) 2005/2006 models had quite some coding taken out of the instrument cluster...depending on model (211 - 219) and exact build date it differs per car but some of the previously available menus that were taken out are:
- changing from CELSIUS to FAHRENHEIT
- changing from AM/PM to 24H display
- easy entry for the seat (steering column is still there)
- limitted opening of the trunkcloser
- auto folding mirror feature when locking the car
...and some other basic menus that I already forgot about...

The climate control unit was changed a while ago as well - plenty of info on that on this forum...

the distronic setup was changed a while ago (somewhen during 2004)...
the parktronic displays were changed somewhen in 2004 (the newer displays have one additional LED on the inside)...

...and so on...

greetingz,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Some of this only applies to US models and he has missed out both the Charcoal filter switching and the REST

Plus of course SBC Stop

so you can see that there have been a number of items removed and again it is in my opinion all about saving a few pence. I understand what your saying about intellectual copyright, but don't understand.

John,

Thanks very much for this. I wrote a reply to this earlier and probably spent too much time doing so, because when I clicked 'submit' I was asked for my username and password again and the reply was promptly 'binned'. So, I made a cup of tea and did something to take my mind off the mild injustice. Has this ever happened to you?

Anyway, the car I have just taken delivery of doesn't have button 9, the A/C on/off control is there in its place, and the REST feature now has the button to itself. To be honest, I think this is - control surface wise - an improvement. I would still like to see the MONO feature that is now incorporated into ML models - which allows you to set the temperature of all four zones at the same time. Once set this way they can, of course, be adjusted separately.

I think that the easy entry feature I have is the US way - ie I don't see the seat moving at all - but the steering column does move.

However, I do have the limiter for the tailgate.

Now to the autoclosing mirrors, and my point about IPR and patents. We can assume that the removal of the feature costs absolutely nothing in hardware. There is, surely without doubt, not one single component that has been saved as a result and all has been done in software. The software has already been written, but this section of code has been switched off, and that can only be for one of two reasons:

Firstly, that the feature is actually wearing out the door mirror motors. I really cannot believe that this is the case.

Secondly, that the feature is subject to a patent, and Mercedes have to pay a royalty each time that it is used. Switching it off, saving nothing in hardware, can actually save them having to pay a small bill each time.

Patents work effectively as bargains between the inventor and the jurisdiction. The inventor discloses HOW to solve a problem (eg in this case - door mirrors getting knocked off by passing idiots), and the authorities allow the inventor to claim a small royalty every time this is implemented. This is allowed for a period of 20 years, after which the invention is free of royalties, and anyone can use it for nothing. It doesn't matter how 'obvious' the invention is in retrospect, if there was nothing like it before and no-one had ever described this solution, then a patent will be granted and a licence payment can be demanded.

I think it's highly likely that the adoption by many companies of active lighting systems is due to the fact that Citroens of the 70/80s (can't remember when) had this feature and - guess what - that's some 20 years ago. Never underestimate a manufacturer's ability to multiply a small sum by their annual volume and see the saving they could make.

I have some experience of all of this, as I had responsibility for the development of the RDS system in international standards and UK implementation, and hold patents in this myself. Some 600 million receivers later and I am quite proud of the work...... although part of the success is surely due to the fact that we decided not to charge any royalties at all. So I have to be delighted by the ubiquity of the technology, not by any financial reward.

Anyway, that's my guess. Maybe others know better on this one. What I was really concerned about was to know whether it was anything to do with wear of the mirrors as, if this is the case, I'll turn the feature off on my wife's A class!!

All the best,

Simon

 

[Rory]

I'm very doubtful that auto-fold mirrors are a patent issue - plenty of cars have them, including my neighbours Peugeot 307.
Please comment/complain to MB - if you don't then they'll say nobody minds.

 

[Diapason]

I'm very doubtful that auto-fold mirrors are a patent issue - plenty of cars have them, including my neighbours Peugeot 307.
Please comment/complain to MB - if you don't then they'll say nobody minds.

Rory,

I agree, it's unlikely, but you'd be amazed at the range of patents that are actually granted. If I have some time spare I'll do a search on this. I was stunned to find that they'd been omitted on my car, and - to be honest - so was the salesman! I will contact MB, but from what others have reported from the Forum I really wouldn't expect to receive a sensible reply.

All the best,

Simon

 

[glojo]

I think that the easy entry feature I have is the US way - ie I don't see the seat moving at all - but the steering column does move.

However, I do have the limiter for the tailgate.

This highlights just how difficult it is to keep abreast of ommissions. The seat moving back is an excellent feature which my 'vertically challenged' (She is 5' 4") wife loves. The seat moves back making it so much easier (and more dignified) for a lady to alight. Then when getting into the vehicle you simply sit down put the key into the ignition and everything moves into your pre-selected driving position. On the 2004 vehicle each key can have its own memory setting. Long legged husband on one and the perfect lady on the other.

This was one of the minor unreliability issues Mercedes had which some members love to believe count as 'breakdowns'.... The key would fail to retain its memory and we actually had to adjust the seat by using the electronic buttons or the numbered memory presets. Some breakdown, but never let the truth spoil a good story.

Yet another omission for the list.

Nice to know the limiter for the tailgate is retained.

I must apologise for my spelling but it is getting late and I'm off to bed

Regards,
John

 

[Robbo]

No, not a breakdown, but a fault. If a car has a feature, then it should work properly.

 

[prprandall51]

Some stuff that changed or went missing

Differences between my car (Nov 2004) and a June 2003 car:

SBS-Stop has been removed.
The temp adjuster between the upper central dash vents has disappeared.
The large vent above those vents now has a mesh cover.
The heating system in the newer car does a better job of keeping feet warm and faces cool (despite that rotary temp adjuster disappearing).
The lock / unlock button function has been reversed (now press the top to open and bottom to close).
In "Auto" mode of the heating system the fan's speed is not displayed on the rotary light thing.
The back support adjuster is now a stick-shaped lever instead of a knurled wheel.
The cooling vent in the central console box has disappeared.
The dash now has a headlights-on warning light in green.

It seems the de-contenting continues. I'll bet the disappearance of the adjusting driver seat was more to do with fear of litigation rather than reliability, though.
Philip

 

[jeremytaylor]

The one extra that I would like on our estate, which I think is not available, is a deflector that prevents the rear getting prematurely covered in muck. In this weather I wash the car, drive 10 miles and the back is again covered in a thick layer of black muck.

Years ago, when I was a wee lad, Dad had a Ford Fairmont estate (Australian import, 6-cylinder petrol, that was sold with the 1973 fuel crisis). Anyway, the rear of this used to foul up terribly - no rear wash wipe in those days, and so Dad made up some 'elephant ears' that he clipped onto the rear pillars (not disimilar to what you see on some truck cab A pillars).

They worked a treat in keeping the rear screen clean by forcing a flow of air from the side of the car round the rear window. Don't know what they did for aerodynamics/fuel consumption, though.

Shortly after that Mum had a Chrysler Horizon (don't laugh, it was Car of the Year in its day!), and we found a set of plastic 'elephant ears' in a car accessory shop that clipped onto the edge of the rear hatch and also worked very well in keeping the screen clear.

You might have thought that a similar device could be designed in to the rear pillars of estate cars these days. I think I recall seeing something similar on the top of the hatch of the Fiat Tempra estate a few years back?


Diapason, if you worry about keeping a Tealite Blue estate clean, then spare a thought for me with my Obsidian Black estate! Lovely spec by the way, glad to see you've got Xenons with your Elegance. When I bought mine as a pre-registered car, that was the one ommission in the Elegance spec that drove me to the Avantgarde. As you now know, the V6 diesel does drive very well!

EDIT. And talking of poor customer service (as this thread was earlier), my brother bought an ex-demo B200CDI for his wife a couple of weeks ago from a franchised Merceds dealer. On the test drive he commented to the salesman at the lack of turbo-lag. The salesman came back, bright as a button: 'Oh yes, sir. Modern diesels don't have turbochargers any more.'

Personally, if the salesman knew so little about the car, I would have stopped there and then and walked home!

 

[glojo]

I'll bet the disappearance of the adjusting driver seat was more to do with fear of litigation rather than reliability, though.
Philip

Me thinks you might be right. I am researching this by every means I can think of.

I am told a family in California is suing Mercedes-Benz for pain and suffering inflicted upon their child who allegedly had their knees injured when the drivers seat moved backwards!! This of couse is purely rumour.

If I was Mercedes-Benz I would sue the parent for not teaching their child any form of common sense. Like move your legs. Of course the child might have legs the size of an elephants!

Did I see the glovebox shelf and leather pull on the centre armrest?

Regards,
John

 

[prprandall51]

I still have the glovebox shelf at Nov 2004 but do not have the leather pull strap on the centre armrest - which, incidently, has to be the most bizarre omission.

Didn't they remove the Aux input to Comand at some point recently, too?
Philip