Newbie: W210 - possible to keep long term, or am I completely insane?

[mj2k]

Hi,

This is a stonker of a first post, so please bear with me. Despite their fearsome reputation I rather like the looks of the W210 saloon, and I'm especially fond of the OM606 turbodiesel. So I'm thinking about trying to get a 300TD W210 in a few months, preferably under 150k with MB service history and non-metallic paint.

I'm an old Merc veteran to some extent - we owned a 190e 2.0 which eventually died of old age, and I followed this up with a low mileage (only just over 100k!) W124 3.0TD estate. Having seen both of these cars get all the usual faults, I'm perfectly aware old Mercs aren't made of granite (well, except the W123) so I reckon I won't be too disappointed with a W210... Or will I?

The rust issue is well documented and I quite enjoy welding, but is it possible to cure a rusty W210, or should I regard any repair work as a temporary measure before I plonk the engine into a 190 and sweep the rest up with a dustpan and brush?

Also, I know there were some issues with the auto box's electroncs if abused / neglected and the parts are only likely to get rarer / more expensive, so is it possible to convert a W210 300TD to manual transmission? Or should I once again reach for a 190 & engine hoist if the autobox electronics fail?

Finally, hopefully a bit of an easier question to answer - when I do start looking, what other problems should I watch out for in my potential victim apart from gearbox EMLs, spring mounts, front crossmember and subframes?

 

[Deleted member 11979]

Morning

I don't know much about 210, I had a 320cdi about 12 years ago and it was a great car, but unreliable and a little crusty runs the edges.

I have converted both my w124 to manual and it was straightforward, a days work if you have all the correct parts. I imagine a 210 would be th same, find out what gearbox fits, find a donor breaker and get all the parts

I would find out if there are any fangled electronic devices that will be looking for the automatic gearbox so that you can fool them.

Good luck

 

[alabbasi]

I've owned W210's for over 10 years (1997 E420 and a couple of E55's). They are prone to rusting which can be a problem if you're in an area where they put salt on roads.

The W210 is about the oldest MB that I would want to drive daily. The older ones are great cars but they tend take more effort to drive which is not that much fun if you have to spend a lot of time sitting in traffic.

 

[C36fan]

Hi,

This is a stonker of a first post, so please bear with me. Despite their fearsome reputation I rather like the looks of the W210 saloon, and I'm especially fond of the OM606 turbodiesel. So I'm thinking about trying to get a 300TD W210 in a few months, preferably under 150k with MB service history and non-metallic paint.

I'm an old Merc veteran to some extent - we owned a 190e 2.0 which eventually died of old age, and I followed this up with a low mileage (only just over 100k!) W124 3.0TD estate. Having seen both of these cars get all the usual faults, I'm perfectly aware old Mercs aren't made of granite (well, except the W123) so I reckon I won't be too disappointed with a W210... Or will I?

The rust issue is well documented and I quite enjoy welding, but is it possible to cure a rusty W210, or should I regard any repair work as a temporary measure before I plonk the engine into a 190 and sweep the rest up with a dustpan and brush?

Also, I know there were some issues with the auto box's electroncs if abused / neglected and the parts are only likely to get rarer / more expensive, so is it possible to convert a W210 300TD to manual transmission? Or should I once again reach for a 190 & engine hoist if the autobox electronics fail?

Finally, hopefully a bit of an easier question to answer - when I do start looking, what other problems should I watch out for in my potential victim apart from gearbox EMLs, spring mounts, front crossmember and subframes?

Got for it I'm keeping mine for life!

 

[mj2k]

Morning

I don't know much about 210, I had a 320cdi about 12 years ago and it was a great car, but unreliable and a little crusty runs the edges.

I have converted both my w124 to manual and it was straightforward, a days work if you have all the correct parts. I imagine a 210 would be th same, find out what gearbox fits, find a donor breaker and get all the parts

I would find out if there are any fangled electronic devices that will be looking for the automatic gearbox so that you can fool them.

Good luck

Thanks

Yes, I was thinking about looking at the W124 manual conversion threads, weirdly the biggest issue might actually be finding a suitable clutch pedal rather than a gearbox.

ECU issues shouldn't be too much of a problem, it's pretty much the same engine as the W124's 606 so it should just be a matter of fitting a turbo's mechanical injection pump (I've found 1 or 2 places which sell the right model) and routing a traditional accelerator cable (if needed). I ended up doing that on an auto Discovery years ago to get rid of it's dreadful electronic diesel control, and it worked pretty well.

 

[mj2k]

I've owned W210's for over 10 years (1997 E420 and a couple of E55's). They are prone to rusting which can be a problem if you're in an area where they put salt on roads.

The W210 is about the oldest MB that I would want to drive daily. The older ones are great cars but they tend take more effort to drive which is not that much fun if you have to spend a lot of time sitting in traffic.

I partly agree with you on that, the 190 was pretty straightforward to drive (though the manual gearchange wasn't the best), but the W124 estate was a bit of a pain. It was superb on the motorway, possibly the most relaxing mile eater I've ever driven, but it's vast size and underpowered non-turbo diesel engine meant you needed a lot of patience and a thick skin to drive it within the M25.

 

[mj2k]

I investigated the clutch pedal issue for a manual conversion, and it appears you need to fit pedals from a 190. And that'd go along with fitting a W124 pump to get around ecu issues.

Hmmm, the more I think about it, the more I realize I'd be gradually converting a W210 into a 190/W124 hybrid!

Oh well, if it did crumble to dust at least that'd make sticking the engine into a 190 a bit easier

 

[mj2k]

In a strange twist of fate I found a 'barn find' 1990 manual W124 300TD whilst I was researching w210 gearboxes, and it was asking to be rescued!

So I will soon be picking up a 300k plus W124 saloon in black, rather than a W210 in a few months.

However, at that mileage I suspect the mechanicals will be getting a little tired, so I'd better start following the SuperTurboDiesel thread

 

[RSTurbo50]

Buy an E39 BMW 5 Series instead a much better all round car. Plus it's still attractive whereas the W210 has always been pig ugly.

 

[mj2k]

Buy an E39 BMW 5 Series instead a much better all round car. Plus it's still attractive whereas the W210 has always been pig ugly.

I liked the looks of the W210, though the estate's rear end was a bit odd.

But chances are the only time I'll be looking at a W210 now is when I'm working out how to yank it's engine out...

Shame really, looks like the electronic gearbox control's another future way for the W210 to die. Still, I reckon it'll be classed as a classic in a few years, if it overcomes it's rot reputation. It'll certainly be rare and it's the car which set the direction of Mercedes Benz to this day (styling, comfort and performance rather than taxi lookalikes hewn from granite).

 

[C36fan]

Buy an E39 BMW 5 Series instead a much better all round car. Plus it's still attractive whereas the W210 has always been pig ugly.

Really??
I think Steve wonder would agree with you...
No need to call the car pig ugly ,E39s only can wish they look as cool as this:

 

[mj2k]

Well, the W124 didn't, er, go quite so well.

So I'll be picking up an S210 3.0 turbodiesel on Fri with 172k on the clock, along with the usual rusty door and wing

And though I said I wasn't going to spend any money on it until I was sure it was useable, I stumbled across a new-old-stock n/s/f door for £95 inc vat / delivery so I had to get it...

After the fun and games with the W124, there's only one thing I can say:

I must be screaming mad.

 

[SW18]

Tell us more about the W124! Unless the memory is too painful...

 

[DrNick]

I had a S210 TD with stellar mileage (well in excess of 450k after 5 years)
I had another W210 (280) after that with low mileage and full service history.

Both rusted, but both were absolutely brilliant cars to drive.

Tops of the doors under the seals is a popular place to rust. If you catch it early enough a dose of waxoyl or even Vaseline under the seals will stop it.

Wings also rust, and realistically a replacement is the best way. Once the rust appears, it spreads like plague.

Spring perches also rust though, but these are cheap to replace.

Mechanically there are few issues I'm aware of with the TD. The MAF is a common one, and the autobox fluid pipes are prone to rusting through.

This, in a nutshell, is my experience with the 210. Flawed but a really nice place to be! I had a W211 E320CDi after that. That was a nicer place to be, better even than my current W212 petrol, which is a step backwards in my opinion.

 

[mj2k]

Tell us more about the W124! Unless the memory is too painful...

Heh, you've done it now

Basically it was a high mileage (literal) barn find - it was on 300k but had been dry stored in a barn for 4 years. It was sold as a non-runner, but I was sure it'd be an easy fix to get the engine going, and sure enough, it was. The interior was a mess so I spent £350 on a near-perfect leather interior, and thought I was on to a winner

Bodywork looked good at first glance, still nice and shiny with no holes in the front wings, jack points or subframe mounts, and nothing underneath gave way under firm thumb pressure. But when I got it home I noticed there was a lot of 'orange peel' on the paintwork and lots of small rust scabs underneath the paint, so it had obviously been 'tarted up' prior to being sold to the prev owner.

When I removed the old interior I found rust holes in weird places (underneath the driver's seat, half way up the door pillar, etc) so I started to get a bit suspicious. And then when I jacked it up to try and free off the binding brakes I found most of the 'good' underside crumbled when hit hard with a hammer, one of the wheelarches completely crumbled away (inner and outer) and catalytic corrosion had welded the n/s/f wheel to it's bolts, leaving me with no way to get the wheel off.

I asked the experts on here whether they thought it was worth spending all the extra time on the unexpected issues, and...

The car's now being broken for spares

I did a whole 'recommission' thread on it too - http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/general-discussion/220437-project-w124-recommission. That'll teach me for assuming seemingly good bodywork actually is good.

Still, I'll make most of the money back by breaking the car, have learned quite a few useful things by dismantling it, and have a nice manual gearbox, interior, etc for my next project so it's not all been bad

 

[mj2k]

I had a S210 TD with stellar mileage (well in excess of 450k after 5 years)
I had another W210 (280) after that with low mileage and full service history.

Both rusted, but both were absolutely brilliant cars to drive.

Tops of the doors under the seals is a popular place to rust. If you catch it early enough a dose of waxoyl or even Vaseline under the seals will stop it.

Wings also rust, and realistically a replacement is the best way. Once the rust appears, it spreads like plague.

Spring perches also rust though, but these are cheap to replace.

Mechanically there are few issues I'm aware of with the TD. The MAF is a common one, and the autobox fluid pipes are prone to rusting through.

This, in a nutshell, is my experience with the 210. Flawed but a really nice place to be! I had a W211 E320CDi after that. That was a nicer place to be, better even than my current W212 petrol, which is a step backwards in my opinion.

Thanks

The n/s/f door and wing have got obvious rust (hence why I 'had' to snap up that new door) and I'll be welding strengthening plates to the spring hangers assuming the car is saveable.

I wasn't aware of the autobox pipes rusting, but I'm mentally prepared for getting autobox issues anyway, and might even convert it to manual at some point, along with a mechanical fuel pump swap.

Weirdly the car hasn't had any MOT fails / advisories on rust, and I've got 6 months to fully drive / test how crumbly brown it is before deciding it's ultimate fate - restore it, or use it as a donor for a W124 superturbodiesel project

So overall I'm quite positive about this, and the only thing which could scupper me is if the engine turns out to be duff, which is the one thing on the car I can't be sure about

 

[RSTurbo50]

I'm sorry but put that next to an E39 M5 and the BMW walks all over it. That's the reason why E39 M5 prices are on the rise and command good money whereas the W210 E55 not so..

 

[mj2k]

I'm sorry but put that next to an E39 M5 and the BMW walks all over it. That's the reason why E39 M5 prices are on the rise and command good money whereas the W210 E55 not so..

Put a E39 M5 next to a well sorted Alfa 156 GTA and I know which one would win (both in terms of value and 'wow' factor, you should hear that exhaust!) but we're talking about W210s here

 

[RSTurbo50]

Put a E39 M5 next to a well sorted Alfa 156 GTA and I know which one would win (both in terms of value and 'wow' factor, you should hear that exhaust!) but we're talking about W210s here

I'm afraid it would take a hell of a car to sway me from an E39 M5....very little out there even comes close but yes W210's is the discussion here lol

 

[DrNick]

In its day I believe the E300TD was the most powerful production diesel you could get. True it was no sportscar but it was pretty impressive for what it was!