Oil Overfill Issue

[renault12ts]

Not alone at all.

Wait to you get a 7g car. Can't even top them up unless you pump through the bottom. No way of checking at all.

A simple dipstick would solve all problems and give the owner the ability to look after the car more effectively.

What, there's no oil filler cap on top of the rocker cover??

 

[st4]

What, there's no oil filler cap on top of the rocker cover??

Yes. None. You have to fill the box via a pump at the bottom.

No way to top up ATF and no real way to have a make shift dip stick.

To top it all off the box is a bit sh*t.

 

[renault12ts]

Yes. None. You have to fill the box via a pump at the bottom.

No way to top up ATF and no real way to have a make shift dip stick.

To top it all off the box is a bit sh*t.

Oh...I thought you were talking about the engine.

 

[camerontyler]

Good Evening,

Finished work and had a few missed calls from a random number.

Turns out it was the Operations Manager for Kwik Fit.

He'd been down to the KF station where I got the oil changed.

The manager of the station has admitted to him that he thought something had gone wrong because the fault had only appeared once the work had been done but I'd left by that point and he only realised this after I'd visited and he'd thought about it....

Anyway, the Operations Manager was very nice on the phone and sounded very sincere when he said first of all I would like to offer my upmost apologies for what has happened and that he was dealing with it personally.

I told him I had been advised to get a full ATF replacement and flush incase the ATF has become contaminated with engine oil which could in turn destroy the gearbox.

He told me to do whatever needs done and Kwik Fit will cover the costs.
He also said he will cover any costs i've already incurred.

He told me I can either pay for it myself, take the invoice into Kwik Fit and I will get an immediate refund or I can get it fixed in Edinburgh and he will go and pay for it himself.

I told him I was happy to pay and claim a refund if he would put it in writing.

I will now follow this up (unfortunately back at work this week after being off but will try and get something sorted out for Saturday) and I will post the final conclusion once it's sorted.

Thanks everyone for the support and advice.

Hopefully i'll be able to report that in the end, Kwik Fit are happy to admit their mistakes and resolve them whatever the cost.

For now, the jury is still out......

 

[st4]

Oh...I thought you were talking about the engine.

No, the 642 engine has a dipstick.

 

[jonnyboy]

Good Evening,

Finished work and had a few missed calls from a random number.

Turns out it was the Operations Manager for Kwik Fit.

He'd been down to the KF station where I got the oil changed.

The manager of the station has admitted to him that he thought something had gone wrong because the fault had only appeared once the work had been done but I'd left by that point and he only realised this after I'd visited and he'd thought about it....

Anyway, the Operations Manager was very nice on the phone and sounded very sincere when he said first of all I would like to offer my upmost apologies for what has happened and that he was dealing with it personally.

I told him I had been advised to get a full ATF replacement and flush incase the ATF has become contaminated with engine oil which could in turn destroy the gearbox.

He told me to do whatever needs done and Kwik Fit will cover the costs.
He also said he will cover any costs i've already incurred.

He told me I can either pay for it myself, take the invoice into Kwik Fit and I will get an immediate refund or I can get it fixed in Edinburgh and he will go and pay for it himself.

I told him I was happy to pay and claim a refund if he would put it in writing.

I will now follow this up (unfortunately back at work this week after being off but will try and get something sorted out for Saturday) and I will post the final conclusion once it's sorted.

Thanks everyone for the support and advice.

Hopefully i'll be able to report that in the end, Kwik Fit are happy to admit their mistakes and resolve them whatever the cost.

For now, the jury is still out......

If they come through it is a complete result. I have little time for KF even though I know a couple of lads who work/worked there, ever since they mot'd one of mine years ago which apparently needed new springs, shockers, discs and pads all round. It didn't as they had all been replaced since the previous MOT. All that said, the OP's resolution is a testament to them owning up, putting right, and the calm approach by the OP.

 

[renault12ts]

If they come through it is a complete result. I have little time for KF even though I know a couple of lads who work/worked there, ever since they mot'd one of mine years ago which apparently needed new springs, shockers, discs and pads all round. It didn't as they had all been replaced since the previous MOT. All that said, the OP's resolution is a testament to them owning up, putting right, and the calm approach by the OP.

But the same happens at main dealers also...and they're more expensive when they rip you off.

 

[philepo]

Glad to here the KF people are taking responsibility, that's very good in this day and age.

But to repeat an earlier question: how is it theoretically possible for a g/box to loose 1 litre of fluid without a leak?

Evaporation??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[BlackC55]

Glad to here the KF people are taking responsibility, that's very good in this day and age.

But to repeat an earlier question: how is it theoretically possible for a g/box to loose 1 litre of fluid without a leak?

Evaporation??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Maybe it was not full in the first place?????

 

[Rory]

The oil overfill situation isn't necessarily a problem. Often ( as has happened with me) the oil level is spot on when filled (even after standing for a while) but as the engine warms up ( and only ever after a few miles at 70 on a motorway) the oil expands and the sensor picks it up and displays the message. I drove many miles like this with absolutely no ill effects.

If the car had no sensor ( as in the old days) I'd have been none the wiser, and since it was fine when it went in it remained that way even after the overactive light went on ( if you get what I mean ).

I'd love to know how the car is deciding that the oil level is high - in my car I can display the actual oil level in tenths of litres. 6.5L when cold (which is the capacity) drops to around 4L when running.

What would suddenly (after running several miles at 70 as others have suggested) cause the high oil level warning to illuminate?

 

[jaymanek]

expansion.

 

[Bellow]

expansion.

Expansion caused by frothing/aeration.

 

[BlackC55]

Expansion caused by frothing/aeration.

Expansion due to when oil gets hot it expands quite a bit. If the oil is frothy somthing is wrong.

Mobil 1 expands more than other regular semi-synthetic oils for some weird reason.

 

[Bellow]

...

 

[BlackC55]

Volumetric expansion coefficient for Oil (unused engine oil) = 0.00070

Quite a bit?

Source: Coefficients of Cubical Expansion of Liquids

I suppose the oil additives and weather the oil is a mineral or synthetic plays a part in how much it expands. I don't know for sure exactly but in the real world.....

..........we find that if the engine oil on a car with 8L capacity is filled to halfway up the dipstick when cold, after the engine is a full operating temp the level will be at least 3/4 up the dipstick. This is why we have to be so careful not to over fill as it is done very easily. If you fill to max when cold the instrument cluster will show oil high when the engine is hot.

 

[Bellow]

For an increase of 100C the volume increases by 7%, which is more significant than I had first considered, and amounts to approx 450ml with a 6.5l capacity.

Frothing is still present to a significant degree though, and degrades oils by promoting the oxidation process courtesy of the entrained air.

 

[rf065]

I keep reading about the engine oil level warning when hot. I always fill mine with Mobil 1, making sure it is right up to the top mark on the dipstick when cold, and have never had this warning come up on mine. Have MB changed the sensors or is there another reason why some do & mine does not?

Russ

 

[Rory]

I suppose the oil additives and weather the oil is a mineral or synthetic plays a part in how much it expands. I don't know for sure exactly but in the real world.....

..........we find that if the engine oil on a car with 8L capacity is filled to halfway up the dipstick when cold, after the engine is a full operating temp the level will be at least 3/4 up the dipstick. This is why we have to be so careful not to over fill as it is done very easily. If you fill to max when cold the instrument cluster will show oil high when the engine is hot.

I keep mine on the 6.5L level (which is the stated capacity for my car) on the cluster computer when stone cold - of course I've no idea how accurate the level indicator is. I've never had a high level warning.

The query I have is that, when running, the oil level drops a lot, obviously as oil is circulating around the engine. The cluster displays around the 4L mark.

So there must be more to the high level warning than simply detecting the level as the sump level should be low when the engine is running.

 

[Bellow]

So there must be more to the high level warning than simply detecting the level as the sump level should be low when the engine is running.

I'd take a guess that either there are 2 sensors or, that once the oil is warmed, the increase in bulk with heating and frothing cancels out the oil in circulation - which is possibly very little more than the oil making the return journey to the sump, as when you cold check the oil, significant volumes of the 'live' circuit will still be primed, eg filter, pump, and a fair amount of gallery volume.

 

[markjay]

Overfilling with oil gives dealers a headache because of the over-sensitive oil level sensor (mainly found on diesels, where overfilling with oil is potentially much more damaging than for petrol engines) which brings the customers back to the garage to have some oil removed.

So I can understand why my local MB dealer only filled-up the oil to the minimum mark on the dipstick during the previous A service - they do this these days regardless of whether the car actually has an oil level sensor or not (mine doesn't, by the way). But what I was less impressed with is that they still invoiced for 5.5L of Helix Ultra at £14.95+VAT per L, while clearly only 3.5L actually went into the car...