On-the-spot fines planned for careless driving

[fuzzer]

How about we start at the beginning with all the issues.

How about we make erm.. make road tax pay for fixing the roads and then we can come up with all these star spangled ideas that can be abused at the end of the month when those targets that we are all told dont exist need to be met.

What a load of tosh! Just another tax

 

[jepho]

We've already educated them when they learned to drive & took a driving test. I thought it was pretty clear when I went through that process.

My driving licence is valid until 2018 (my 70th birthday) You cannot seriously be suggesting that everything one needs to know about driving is taught in 12 one hour lessons and a 20 minute driving test... can you? Whither motorway driving, wet weather driving, driving in snow or ice, driving in fog or in the dark, driving at speed... &c? None of that was taught to me and yet I must drive in those conditions.

I have grown weary of the "educate them" call

Clearly.

...Just fine them & give them points. That'll educate 'em!

'angin's too good for em... shoot 'em tha's what I say, shoot em an turn 'em into 'ardcore for our new super 'ighways. Vat'll lern 'em

 

[Mercy1]

Is this the same real world which wants everybody in work at 9.00am? I choose which hours I travel and having chosen to drive, I accept that it mandates new behaviours from drivers. I can no longer drive with the same expectations I had during the 1960s. I am not trying to be censorious or holier than thou here. I am saying that my safety (and the safety of other road users, which ultimately impinges on my own safety) is my only concern here.

You see Jepho, this is what I mean by idealistic aims and the real world. YOU can choose which hours you travel and drive, YOU can spend an hour on a coffee break - good for YOU. Not many of the rest of us can!
Most of us are Mr and Mrs Joe Average who only want to get from A to B and C and D, in the quickest (and yes, safest) way. We want to use the road network to do our pressurised jobs, catch trains, planes and ships on time, and a thousand on one other travel needs. So we push on along the roads, because it's what happens in the REAL world i see. Agreed, some do it better and more considerately than others, and others considerably worse!! The aim surely is to deal with them all as best we can.
I have to say that as much as I respect your right to your views, I find iit hard to recognise the circumstances in which they can be applied. But keep going, educate me!
PS: If you don't know what a chevron is, you haven't driven down the M1 much over the years!! lol.

 

[jepho]

You see Jepho, this is what I mean by idealistic aims and the real world. YOU can choose which hours you travel and drive, YOU can spend an hour on a coffee break - good for YOU. Not many of the rest of us can!

I suspect that my working hours are no different to the hours worked by the majority of people. I may commute up to 200 miles each way and I ensure that I leave home in enough time to avoid the traffic and arrive without the fear of being late. I leave when the work is complete and try to drive as if I want to get home alive. As stated, I am not superhuman and I feel if i can do it, then many could probably also do it.

The madness is the employment pattern that wants us all to arrive at 9.00am. Despite computers, I cannot work from home so must travel. The last few weeks have seen me working in places as far afield as Grimsby, Reading, Bath, Worthing, Brighton, Maidenhead, Kingston and Bedford and I am commuting from somewhere south of Milton Keynes.

Most of us are Mr and Mrs Joe Average....

I am Mr Joe Average too!

We want to use the road network to do our pressurised jobs, catch trains, planes and ships on time, and a thousand on one other travel needs. So we push on along the roads, because it's what happens in the REAL world i see. Agreed, some do it better and more considerately than others, and others considerably worse!! The aim surely is to deal with them all as best we can.

If you start out feeling under pressure, I don't see how you can drive without that pressure to be somewhere on time affecting the decisions you make. I am fairly certain that lateness equates to rudeness and I cannot abide being late, even where it requires a road journey of 200 miles.

Starting out by calculating that at an average of say... 60mph, I can cover 120 miles in two hours, is a fantasy world, even if that is all motorway mileage. Much will conspire to bring your average speed down and I plan my journeys with delays pre-planned into them and I have my coffee stops pre-planned as well. I am never late.

PS: If you don't know what a chevron is, you haven't driven down the M1 much over the years!! lol.

The chevron markings with which I am familiar are to be found between junctions 17 and 16 on the southbound carriageway of the M1, in Northamptonshire... but this was not for the testing of my general knowledge. It was to say that I can more easily judge the length of a car than I can judge the length of a chevron at speed (which I know to be 3 metres in length and set 40 metres apart) but it is easier for me to do the maths in my head if I think about the number of cars which can occupy the space between me and the car in front of me.

 

[nick.ged]

i think wagons should be allowed to do 70 on dual or triple carriageways, and indeed 60 on normal sized national speed limit single carriageways, and maybe only 50 on narrow or winding national speed limit singles.

i also think they should be banned from overtaking each other on all roads between the hours of 5.30am and 10.00 am and 3.30 pm and 7.00pm every day, that would remove most of the frustration caused by them clogging dual carriageways and the two left lanes of motorways

 

[jepho]

i think wagons should be allowed to do 70 on dual or triple carriageways, and indeed 60 on normal sized national speed limit single carriageways, and maybe only 50 on narrow or winding national speed limit singles.

i also think they should be banned from overtaking each other on all roads between the hours of 5.30am and 10.00 am and 3.30 pm and 7.00pm every day, that would remove most of the frustration caused by them clogging dual carriageways and the two left lanes of motorways

You will increase the cost of all goods that have to be delivered by road. I can see a huge market in after market 'go faster' chequered tape and the like.

I don't believe that trucks will be any more stable at speed than they are when restricted. Plenty of jack-knifed and overturned trucks are a mute witness to the stability issues that are sometimes present. Somehow, I think the idea of a 44 ton truck going out of control at 70mph is a prospect that scares me, if only because of the kinetic energy stored in such a juggernaut.

Assume a mass of 44 metric tons ~ m =44000 kilograms
Assume a speed of 70mph ~ v = 31.29 metres/second

K = 1/2 by mv squared

There would be 15,889,497 foot lbs of stored energy in a fully laden truck travelling at 70mph. That is not something to tangle with in the event of any kind of accident. The stored energy of an out of control truck can be reduced slowing it down to say... 50mph

The velocity would be 22.35 metres/second if the truck were travelling at 50mph and the resulting stored energy would be 8,106,886 foot lbs.

Now in a purely academic sense, it may not make a lot of difference to a soft, and easily damaged, human body whether it was squashed by a kinetic force of 7093 tons or 3619 tons (because both numbers are more than sufficient to ensure fatality) but the reduction in the damage causing ability of an out of control truck is going to be significantly reduced (empirically) by enforcing the slower speed.

As an aside, I think that strict speed limits should be used in conjunction with a strict no overtaking rule for trucks. A truck only lane would make a lot of sense. That way the truck journey takes whatever time it takes and it would be a known quantity. This would help to reduce the chance of seeing trucks randomly swinging into the middle lane of a motorway (often without looking or deliberately forcing their way into the path of faster following traffic by dint of their size) and it would rapidly become a thing of the past. I would also consider time-limiting trucks to ensure that they travel outside of the normal working day. It would help to separate these road giants from normal sized road users.

 

[snoop51]

This doesn't happen when you get ready for the exit lane in good time. If the lorries are blocking you from entering the exit lane, you were in the other lane for too long. In my experience, you may have to move over at the 1 mile marker and put up with a slightly slower journey over the course of one mile. It makes for a much less fraught exit.

I don't know anything either and certainly not without seeing how you drive. Think space and maintain it carefully... it is your safety margin. Accept that sometimes you really have to slow down before an exit... drive into the slower lane in good time. Aim for high average speeds rather than fast bursts interspersed with slowing for traffic. Not much point accelerating up to a traffic jam when staying back a little will prevent you from braking needlessly.

Is this the same real world which wants everybody in work at 9.00am? I choose which hours I travel and having chosen to drive, I accept that it mandates new behaviours from drivers. I can no longer drive with the same expectations I had during the 1960s. I am not trying to be censorious or holier than thou here. I am saying that my safety (and the safety of other road users, which ultimately impinges on my own safety) is my only concern here.

I'm with you on these points Jepho. I hang well back from the car in front and tend to look at least 3 -4 cars further in front than that to try anticipate so I don't have to apply my brakes. It annoys me when I see the last minute swing it across 3 lane merchants trying to gain a car length before they hit the off slip.

I work away from home and travel at 0445 on a Monday morning so I can beat the rush and drive in a relaxed manner. (That and being from Yorkshire originally it appeals that I don't have to pay the Dartford Crossing if I beat 0600. I get to 10 mile before work, stop have a cuppa and a bacon sandwich for breakfast, arrive at work unstressed, generally happy and contentedly full. I'd much rather drive in a relaxed manner pulling out only to overtake before pulling back in at a steady rate than rush up behind someone, slam on the brakes, get annoyed, accelerate up behind the next idiots who dares to drive slower than me because he's stuck up someone's ar*e too.

There's a lot to be said for flexi time and getting up a bit earlier. Costs less in fuel, takes at the very least 3/4 of an hour less than if I set off an hour later. Why would anyone do that to themselves.

 

[jepho]

I'm with you on these points Jepho. I hang well back from the car in front and tend to look at least 3 -4 cars further in front than that to try anticipate so I don't have to apply my brakes. It annoys me when I see the last minute swing it across 3 lane merchants trying to gain a car length before they hit the off slip.

I work away from home and travel at 0445 on a Monday morning so I can beat the rush and drive in a relaxed manner. (That and being from Yorkshire originally it appeals that I don't have to pay the Dartford Crossing if I beat 0600. I get to 10 mile before work, stop have a cuppa and a bacon sandwich for breakfast, arrive at work unstressed, generally happy and contentedly full. I'd much rather drive in a relaxed manner pulling out only to overtake before pulling back in at a steady rate than rush up behind someone, slam on the brakes, get annoyed, accelerate up behind the next idiots who dares to drive slower than me because he's stuck up someone's ar*e too.

There's a lot to be said for flexi time and getting up a bit earlier. Costs less in fuel, takes at the very least 3/4 of an hour less than if I set off an hour later. Why would anyone do that to themselves.

Nice to meet a kindred spirit. Yes, I feel that stress is largely a self-imposed thing and if I must drive to get to my next job location, then I ensure that it is going to be pleasant. My iPod is full of music that I find is easy to listen to and I know when and where my breakfast and refreshment stops will be. A decent latte Coffee and a full English breakfast does wonders for my demeanour. I view car park conditions on the motorways as an unexpected opportunity for another refreshment stop and a chance to catch up on some reading. An hour is usually all it takes for the conditions to improve considerably and I can drive again.

 

[janner]

"Bad drivers to face £100 fines"

Seems a bit sexist