Possible EV 🙄🙂

[markjay]

If people want to avoid a Tesla (imho a wise thing), can’t cope with Chinese, and don’t fancy choking on BMW/Merc post warranty costs then how about trying a 7 year warranty 320 mile range S Korean? We did and in July went on a trip to Cornwall, mind you that range dropped a bit Gives us 300 miles range easily, half that with the van so 150 miles which meant two stops to get from Northampton to Mevagissey. Latest charge architecture gives 10% to 90% battery charge in circa 20 minutes. The car has acres of room, and a smooth matte paint finish. Being a Kia its between £30 and £40k cheaper than equivalent european or Tesla. That cost saving and the long warranty made the decision easy and anyway I View attachment 144697 have the A205 cabriolet for that I like the silent operation, the torque pull is just wonderful, and maintenance costs are much, much lower than an ICE so more to spend on keeping the van!

The EV6 is an amazing car, and has the same underpinnings as my IONIQ 5.

However, the photo is clearly staged. Just have alook on the non-EV car forums, everyone knows that "you can't tow with an EV' (another urban myth from the EV-bashing brigade...)

 

[HappytalkAgain]

However, the photo is clearly staged. Just have alook on the non-EV car forums, everyone knows that "you can't tow with an EV' (another urban myth from the EV-bashing brigade...)

Indeed. The all new fully electric Ford Transit Custom now has a 2000kg max towing capacity which will be Bloomin perfect for little ole me.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Yeah fair enough, I think Shell are hoping they can maintain their premium image like they have done with V-Power to demand higher prices… unfortunately I don’t see it working for them with electric

It would be ingesting read the marketing blurb about the additive package

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Hi , I overheard a very interest conversation last week regarding the life expectancy of EV passenger cars.

A potential customer for an EV car asked the salesperson how long will the cars last , availability of electronic components, supply line issues and the sales person could not answer.

Customer suggest to sales person the useful life of an EV could be as little as five years !!

EV warriors won't agree with the time span re the useful life of the EV but as the say with financial products past performance does not mean now well EV in the future will last.

Had he been asked the same questions about an ICE car then he wouldn’t have been better equipped to answer (honestly) either. It’s not reasonable to expect the sales person to have the remotest idea about it.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Much is said of the expensive purchase price of EVs and that many can’t afford it - I assume that’s where the council estate comment is aimed - however experience tells me that the same people who can’t afford an expensive EV can’t afford an expensive ICE vehicle either.

But they don’t need to, ICE cars aren’t going anywhere fast and there are currently no impediments to owning and using an ICE. In the meantime businesses and company car drivers are being incentivised to buy EV instead of ICE to accelerate the availability on the affordable used market.

I’ve not checked the data but I’m not convinced that EV depreciation will be any better or worse than ICE for volume models. As mentioned they’re all in for a “blood bath” given the bizarre market conditions in recent years, buying ICE rather than EV won’t be an invincibility cloak.

Uncertainty of EV values and future parts supply are also often mentioned as big risks associated with EV ownership. It’s true but there is probably just as much risk around ICE - depending upon speed on transition, owners and manufacturers could offload their liabilities on ICE sharpish.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Indeed. The all new fully electric Ford Transit Custom now has a 2000kg max towing capacity which will be Bloomin perfect for little ole me.

But only a 171 to 236 mile range....which (according to my customers that tow with EV) will be halved the moment you hitch up....probably rather worse if you get anywhere near two tonne on the hook. So 85 to 118 miles at best. Not insurmountable but hardly ideal to tow a caravan any distance. I can tow a twin axle about 350 miles without stopping behind my tow car.....not that I would ever get close to that far with my aging bladder!

 

[markjay]

I do see the issue here... and it's Capitalism. Rich people own their homes so don't waste money on rent, while poor people spent all their hard earned cash on rent. EVs cost more to buy and less to run....... but only rich people can afford buy them, while the poor have to make do with cheap cars that run on expensive fossil fuel and require expensive maintenance.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

It would be ingesting read the marketing blurb about the additive package

Blooming auto correct: “ingesting”!

 

[ALFAitalia]

I do see the issue here... and it's Capitalism. Rich people own their homes so don't waste money on rent, while poor people spent all their hard earned cash on rent. EVs cost more to buy and less to run....... but only rich people can afford buy them, while the poor have to make do with cheap cars that run on expensive fossil fuel and require expensive maintenance.

Poorer people will get them (and do get them) the same way you see more young people running M series BMW, AMG and all manner of other rapid and reasonably expensive cars that you never saw just a decade ago.....PCP!
You can't move for young families in EV SUVs around here.....next to none will actually own them.
To be honest, with the terrible residue values and plummeting prices of used EVs, PCP is the only sensible option....especially if more manufacturers take an axe to their list prices like Tesla recently did....heavy discounting is just about the best way to hammer down second hand values.

Tesla price drop – up to £8,000 savings on Model 3 and Model Y

Tesla has slashed the prices of its Model 3 saloon and Model Y SUV for 2023. Read on to find out how much you can save on one of these new electric cars…

www.carwow.co.uk

 

[clk320x]

As I said, we can see on the public roads that Tesla's aren't driven fast, apart from the occasional fast start from a slip road. The evidence is around us. You don't need to drive each model to know that they're not driven fast.

I fail to see how that reflects on a cars capability? Every E500 I’ve ever seen has been sat at 50mph - it doesn’t mean it’s a particularly slow car?

As for handling; I can’t say my Model S handles any worse than my W212 E class to be honest, and that’s a totally unbiased opinion whilst still owning both cars.

Depreciation is the case with any car; I was talking about the actual cost of maintaining and fuelling the car mile for mile… depreciation will plateau as a car ages; running costs won’t… an ICE car will always need to be serviced and fuelled.

The point I was making is when comparing the running costs of a fast Tesla to an equivalently fast ICE - the Tesla is far less to run, the capital depreciation on a new AMG can’t be much lower either over the first 3 years.

On your previous posts you are also comparing purchasing a new Tesla/EV with a used ICE when talking about depreciation… when comparing a 28k Model 3 Performance with an equivalent 28k C63 (similar performance) I can’t say either will depreciate notably worse in the next few years.

We somewhat keep going round in circles here.

 

[clk320x]

From what I’m seeing EV depreciation is pretty severe. Dialling that into any overall costs is obviously essential.

Used electric cars have nosedived in value in 2023

Exclusive figures shared with This is Money show that all 20 second-hand cars that have deflated in price across all fuel types are EVs - while not a single one appears in the list of the 20 biggest risers.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

Another way of viewing is it makes them more accessible to people on lower budgets.

Standard with all new technology; comparable with say OLED TVs, when they first launched I remember paying around £4k for a decent set, now similar can be had for £1500.

 

[zipdip]

Well I met a real life EV owner last week.we had a chat he explained he bought his Nissan Leaf in 22 and got a good part ex on his old car and he got money contribution and it according to him cost very little to run,he said he did 4000 miles a year,when questioned he said well maybe less than 4000,asked how he charged it he said from the mains in my garage does he have a charger no straight from the plug socket,had he every charged it away from home no he had not did not trust those high powered chargers they damaged batteries?,what about poor resale values,he was not worried as he would keep it to the wheels fell off,did he worry about high repair costs if he had a accident,no he never has a accident.
It has not been a very good couple of weeks for EV's another ship on fire with 500 hundred EV cars on it,and ferry companies starting to understand that there is a problem,and will it bite them in the backside,insurance companies are looking at repair costs given any serious accident means a write off,or expensive repairs,,we have car traders not wanting second hand EV's,I watched a you tube video from a guy who collects scrapped cars for a large company and he showed lots of damaged EV's all spaced out in his compound I suppose because of the danger of fires,I wondered just how long before EV cars are given their own train to travel the channel tunnel,and maybe pulled over kent side of the Dartford crossing like the fuel tankers before being escorted through the tunnel,who knows maybe none of those things will happen,but as in a earlier post,I will let the fan boys have the EV's and the company owners run them for practically nothing,I will sit this dance out.

 

[Mactech]

I'm now running my EV on my own sun fresh electricity from my solar panels, and with no artificial additives straight into the EV batteries.
Obviously, I have noted a huge increase in range and the car feels much more sprightly almost like it's working on sunshine ( to mis quote Katrina and the Waves)....

 

[HappytalkAgain]

But only a 171 to 236 mile range....which (according to my customers that tow with EV) will be halved the moment you hitch up....probably rather worse if you get anywhere near two tonne on the hook. So 85 to 118 miles at best. Not insurmountable but hardly ideal to tow a caravan any distance. I can tow a twin axle about 350 miles without stopping behind my tow car.....not that I would ever get close to that far with my aging bladder!

99% of my working life is spent within a very small radius. (Around 15-20 miles. Although I tow my trailer regularly I only goto the local quarry for aggregates (1-2 ton) once a week or two. The rest of the time I’m just towing my own equipment/tools/plant and waste.

I’ll never tow a caravan long distance because I don’t own one and never will.

I never use my Van recreationally because it is purely for work.

Even a massively reduced range of 40-50 miles per day/charge would be plenty. So based on all the above an electric Transit will suit my needs perfectly.

 

[HappytalkAgain]

I do see the issue here... and it's Capitalism. Rich people own their homes so don't waste money on rent, while poor people spent all their hard earned cash on rent. EVs cost more to buy and less to run....... but only rich people can afford buy them, while the poor have to make do with cheap cars that run on expensive fossil fuel and require expensive maintenance.

I have always said that money saving methods (EV cars, solar panels on homes, ground source heat pumps, wind turbines, eco homes etc etc etc) are so expensive to implement that poorer families that could/should benefit the most simply can not afford them.

Only folk with healthy funds can afford to save themselves money. Quite an irony.

 

[Connoisseur]

When ICE cars were first made they were v expensive and the preserve of the very rich. When civilian flights started the cost meant most people couldn’t afford to fly. Am not seeing people refusing to drive ICE or fly to Spain due to early adopter costs. EV prices are coming down rapidly, what’s the fuss about?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

When ICE cars were first made they were v expensive and the preserve of the very rich. When civilian flights started the cost meant most people couldn’t afford to fly. Am not seeing people refusing to drive ICE or fly to Spain due to early adopter costs. EV prices are coming down rapidly, what’s the fuss about?

Worth remembering that flight is cheap for two reasons.

Airline Fuel is essentially untaxed. Absurd but there we are. Its cheaper to fly to Nice than to drive because the motorist’s fuel is taxed while air fuel isn’t.

The people in the cheap seats are subsidised by those up front. My return ticket to New York is either free or comfortably less than a grand, but only because those up front are paying up to £10k to fly at short notice or peak time

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The transition is real.

My "Emperor's New clothes" comments focus on cost of ownership, desirability, performance, and the sexist pattern of ownership. (Owners are strongly just men under 35)

An e-Golf with a 150 mile range should be a pretty useful thing. But why do they drop £20k in their first four years of usage? Why aren't people buying them used? (This one's a high spec version with premium paint and digital display)

 

[markjay]

Worth remembering that flight is cheap for two reasons.

Airline Fuel is essentially untaxed. Absurd but there we are. Its cheaper to fly to Nice than to drive because the motorist’s fuel is taxed while air fuel isn’t.

The people in the cheap seats are subsidised by those up front. My return ticket to New York is either free or comfortably less than a grand, but only because those up front are paying up to £10k to fly at short notice or peak time

True, but not the full picture .

Firstly, the principle of First Class and Business Class paying the cost doesn't apply with budget airlines, i.e. Ryanair, easyJet, Wizz Air, etc.

Then, the main reason cheap flights exist is that it's a cutthroat business operating on very low margins. You will notice that large corporates mostly have cash reserves that allow them to withstand an occasional termiol in the market, while Airlines often fall from sky like flies (pun intended) at the first sign of trouble: TWA, Pan Am, Swissair, Alitalia, Flybe, Thomas Cook, Monarch - no other industry saw such a high rate of failure of its main players due to financial reasons.

It's an extremely competitive industry, and consumers benefit.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

True, but not the full picture .

Firstly, the principle of First Class and Business Class paying the cost doesn't apply with budget airlines, i.e. Ryanair, easyJet, Wizz Air, etc.

Then, the main reason cheap flights exist is that it's a cutthroat business operating on very low margins. You will notice that large corporates mostly have cash reserves that allow them to withstand an occasional termiol in the market, while Airlines often fall from sky like flies (pun intended) at the first sign of trouble: TWA, Pan Am, Swissair, Alitalia, Flybe, Thomas Cook, Monarch - no other industry saw such a high rate of failure of its main players due to financial reasons.

It's an extremely competitive industry, and consumers benefit.

Fair points, but Budget airlines are financed by peak period prices, just to a lesser extent.

My £50 midweek flight to Malaga is subsidised by the £250 single ticket paid on a Monday and Friday commuter or last minute flyer

But I prefer to fly BA to Faro, off-season, where £250 gets you a return airfare AND a week's Seat Leon hire for £250, subsidised by those who have paid peak prices before me.

(With apologies to anyone who has just flown at peak rates with their family during the School holidays)