Possible EV 🙄🙂

[davymead]

'to fuel"

Sadly, EV's are still broadly about 37% more expensive to buy than their ICE equivalents, their build quality is contentious, and their expected depreciation is "probably" going to be steep as innovation swiftly moves the standards.

From what I’m seeing EV depreciation is pretty severe. Dialling that into any overall costs is obviously essential.

Used electric cars have nosedived in value in 2023

Exclusive figures shared with This is Money show that all 20 second-hand cars that have deflated in price across all fuel types are EVs - while not a single one appears in the list of the 20 biggest risers.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Hi , I overheard a very interest conversation last week regarding the life expectancy of EV passenger cars.
A potential customer for an EV car asked the salesperson how long will the cars last , availability of electronic components, supply line issues and the sales person could not answer.
Customer suggest to sales person the useful life of an EV could be as little as five years !!
EV warriors won't agree with the time span re the useful life of the EV but as the say with financial products past performance does not mean now well EV in the future will last.

Yes, there are some really dumb opinions around amongst people who don't know what they're talking about.

£40- £50k will pick you up a nice five year old Tesla X or S

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

From what I’m seeing EV depreciation is pretty severe. Dialling that into any overall costs is obviously essential.

Used electric cars have nosedived in value in 2023

Exclusive figures shared with This is Money show that all 20 second-hand cars that have deflated in price across all fuel types are EVs - while not a single one appears in the list of the 20 biggest risers.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

As you say, you need to dial in depreciation, funding etc into the total cost of ownership figures.

The headline is too simplistic. The EV market took off a handful of years ago. There weren't many used vehicles around, so used prices remained high.

To do that comparison, you really need to benchmark vehicles against their ICE equivalents.

The public are EV sceptic for sure, but a glance at the price of a used Ford Mondeo or BMW 320i by comparison is going to be equally bloody after the Supply chain issues of 2020-2022.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Yeah fair enough, I think Shell are hoping they can maintain their premium image like they have done with V-Power to demand higher prices… unfortunately I don’t see it working for them with electric

Disagree, ALL the oil companies are pouring big money into Service station recharging. Bernard Looney, the CEO of BP has replaced most of his board with people from retail and FMCG.

Petrol stations are expensive Supermarkets with petrol pumps attached. The profit and customer throughput comes from the Supermarket, the fuel is a side show.

They're changing to expensive Supermarkets with coffee shops, petrol pumps and expensive top-up EV chargers attached.

Agreed that most charging is done overnight outside your home, but there are still poor people without driveways, and there will be a very small number of people who need a top up because they are travelling beyond their 300 mile tank range.

 

[SmartAmg]

@SmartAmg if you do decide to go EV - you’re always welcome to PM me and I’ll help you sort your electric tariff etc.. that goes for anyone here.

Thanks for that, nice to know.

 

[clk320x]

We've already seen Teslas being written off very early for minor bodywork and parts issues, and Tesla insurance premia are already bearing those scars. There are many horror stories around the glass roofs of Teslas needing to be replaced for stone or fitment reasons. As for BYD, MG et al we simply don't know - yet - how their maintenance will work out. There are embarrassing stories of significant bodywork rust in year one. For some stupid reason things like the 12v batteries on the E-Niro seem to need to be replaced in just three years.

Tesla EVs, Even Mildly Damaged, Are Being Written Off by Insurance Companies

Insight: Scratched EV battery? Your insurer may have to junk the whole car

The parts shortage is an industry wide issue as is in the increase in insurance premiums. There was a similar issue with windscreens before, but the actual issue was insurance companies wanting to use Autoglass who insisted on using non-OEM glass from their supplier who had a backlog rather than going via Tesla direct who could get the glass in days.

Crash repairs aren’t routine maintenance though….?

It’s still far cheaper to run a Tesla than the equivalent ICE car, and by equivalent you’d need to compare it to something like a C63 to get a car with equivalent acceleration, not a 2.0 diesel.

 

[clk320x]

Disagree, ALL the oil companies are pouring big money into Service station recharging. Bernard Looney, the CEO of BP has replaced most of his board with people from retail and FMCG.

Petrol stations are expensive Supermarkets with petrol pumps attached. The profit and customer throughput comes from the Supermarket, the fuel is a side show.

They're changing to expensive Supermarkets with coffee shops, petrol pumps and expensive top-up EV chargers attached.

Agreed that most charging is done overnight outside your home, but there are still poor people without driveways, and there will be a very small number of people who need a top up because they are travelling beyond their 300 mile tank range.




View attachment 144671

BP Pulse is one of the most unreliable EV charging networks that most avoid, the winners in this field are Tesla, Ionity etc… big oil has a lot of catching up to do..

BP Pulse among ‘worst’ electric vehicle charge point providers

BP Pulse and Charge Your Car, also BP owned, have been rated among the worst public electric vehicle charging networks in the UK in a Zap-Map survey.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

 

[davymead]

It’s still far cheaper to run a Tesla than the equivalent ICE car, and by equivalent you’d need to compare it to something like a C63 to get a car with equivalent acceleration, not a 2.0 diesel.

Acceleration over what distance. A neighbour runs an A45 which is extremely frugal unless annoyed.
Strange in the days of my 350Cdi, I never had any problems ‘keeping up’ with Tesla’s at high speed on my way oop North.

 

[BoristheBounce]

But three quid you quote at a UK average of 34p per kwh hour (Source- Energy Saving Trust) will only get you 8kwh of power....you wont get far on that. So with an efficiency rating of what? say 3 miles per kWh that 3 pound will get you about 24 miles! I can get further than that on £3 worth of diesel on a motorway trip....and only a little less on my commute.

It cost me £6.75 to fully charge my 90kw EV from empty, for that I get 220/230 miles there is no way an ICE car is more economical to use than an EV.

The only way is if you don't have a home charger, therefore paying at public chargers all the time, or you are paying high rates for your electricity at home, even at my high rate of £0.38/kw it would only cost me £34.20 for £220/230 miles.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

It’s still far cheaper to run a Tesla than the equivalent ICE car, and by equivalent you’d need to compare it to something like a C63 to get a car with equivalent acceleration, not a 2.0 diesel.

The Council estates disagree with you.

Maybe they don’t realise how much they could save if they ran a £55k Tesla Y instead of a Mondeo? Who knows?

Will our C63 owners swop to silent Tesla 3’s?

Seems unlikely, unless they’re company car drivers on that enormous BIK break.

You only have to watch Tesla drivers on the road to see that they neither accelerate fast, nor drive swiftly generally. Perhaps it’s something to do with that crashy suspension, the dubious handling and the noiseless motor?

 

[clk320x]

Acceleration over what distance. A neighbour runs an A45 which is extremely frugal unless annoyed.
Strange in the days of my 350Cdi, I never had any problems ‘keeping up’ with Tesla’s at high speed on my way oop North.

The usual measures of 0-60 / Quarter Mile used for performance cars.

 

[HappytalkAgain]

I've not idea who Rory is or was! Was that someone else who was not allowed a point of view unless or matched the views of the MBClub old timers? Because or does seem that others have far more fixed ideas and or dislike certain car types and marque and put their points across just as forcefully.....but they don't get the stick for it that I do.
I'll try and stick to thread that only want facts rather than opinions.....just to keep the collective happy!
Funny how I don't have this issue on other forums!

And there’s me thinking you were thick skinned and enjoyed the bantz maaaaaan!

Point taken. I’ll tone it down until you tell me otherwise

 

[clk320x]

The Council estates disagree with you.

Maybe they don’t realise how much they could save if they ran a £55k Tesla Y instead of a Mondeo? Who knows?

Will our C63 owners swop to silent Tesla 3’s?

Seems unlikely, unless they’re company car drivers on that enormous BIK break.

You only have to watch Tesla drivers on the road to see that they neither accelerate fast, nor drive swiftly generally. Perhaps it’s something to do with that crashy suspension, the dubious handling and the noiseless motor?

View attachment 144676

Ironically I can think of one member on here who went from a 1000hp AMG to a M3P… I went from a 500hp V8 to one…

Didn’t you say you haven’t driven one on another thread asking about hiring one in the states? How can you make such assumptions without having driven one?

You are also aware there’s different models right; the standard range M3 isn’t performance orientated and tends to be the base model sales reps drive and probably mainly what you’ve seen on the roads, the performance model is another ballgame with 3s 0-60, the Model S performances are a step up further with adaptive suspension etc.. Just because the cars you’ve seen on the road are being driven sedately doesn’t mean they aren’t fun to drive or don’t perform well… I would say most AMGs I see on the motorway are on cruise at 70mph, does that mean they are boring to drive?

Why do you mention council estates and Mondeos? The discussion was about running costs… not initial purchase cost… changing the subject?

 

[markjay]

Hi , I overheard a very interest conversation last week regarding the life expectancy of EV passenger cars.

A potential customer for an EV car asked the salesperson how long will the cars last , availability of electronic components, supply line issues and the sales person could not answer.

Customer suggest to sales person the useful life of an EV could be as little as five years !!

EV warriors won't agree with the time span re the useful life of the EV but as the say with financial products past performance does not mean now well EV in the future will last.

Odd - my EV has 8 years warranty on the battery.... this story sounds like yet another anti-EV urban myth (there are many...).

EDIT: On another forum, I failed to convince someone that the story that goes around on the Internet that Tesla owners in the US routinly drive around with a portable Diesel generator in the boot was an urban myth... he swore it was true (and even posted as proof a photo downloaded from the Internet of a Tesla carrying a generator on an external rack - which according to him was the 'norm' in the States.... ).

 

[markjay]

Wow.... £35k for an 'obsolete' car .. madness

Second-hand Tesla Model S for sale in London - CarGurus.co.uk

Save £2,194 on a used Tesla Model S near you. Search pre-owned Tesla Model S listings to find the best London deals. We analyse hundreds of thousands of used cars daily.

www.cargurus.co.uk

 

[clk320x]

Wow.... £35k for an 'obsolete' car .. madness

Second-hand Tesla Model S for sale in London - CarGurus.co.uk

Save £2,194 on a used Tesla Model S near you. Search pre-owned Tesla Model S listings to find the best London deals. We analyse hundreds of thousands of used cars daily.

www.cargurus.co.uk

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Ironically I can think of one member on here who went from a 1000hp AMG to a M3P… I went from a 500hp V8 to one…
Didn’t you say you haven’t driven one on another thread asking about hiring one in the states? How can you make such assumptions without having driven one?
You are also aware there’s different models right; the standard range M3 isn’t performance orientated and tends to be the base model sales reps drive and probably mainly what you’ve seen on the roads, the performance model is another ballgame with 3s 0-60, the Model S performances are a step up further with adaptive suspension etc.. Just because the cars you’ve seen on the road are being driven sedately doesn’t mean they aren’t fun to drive or don’t perform well… I would say most AMGs I see on the motorway are on cruise at 70mph, does that mean they are boring to drive?
Why do you mention council estates and Mondeos? The discussion was about running costs… not initial purchase cost… changing the subject?

Precisely, just two members converting doesn't prove the point. More convert to Bentley or Ferrari.

I've only driven the Tesla S, not the Y, which is why I've spoken about renting either the Y or its equivalents on this forthcoming trip. Tesla have dumped 100,000 vehicles into Hertz as part of a year end deal, so it's cheaper to rent a Tesla than a VW Jetta. A chance to see if their suspension and handling is as bad as Autocar, Carwow, Top Gear, and most motoring journalists, say it is. I don't make assumptions, I read the expert reviews, and obviously I've been driven in the S and 3.

It's also been heavily reported that Hertz have had to dump their rental prices because customers won't accept Teslas.

As I said, we can see on the public roads that Tesla's aren't driven fast, apart from the occasional fast start from a slip road. The evidence is around us. You don't need to drive each model to know that they're not driven fast.

If Teslas were cheap to run, we'd see them on the Council estates where cost of ownership is important. Tesla's aren't cheap to run if you include cost of capital, depreciation etc. The average motorist doing 8,000 miles a year isn't rushing to Tesla's door to pay £53k for a pug-ugly Tesla model Y, unless he's on a corporate tax break.

(I say "he" because Tesla is embarrassingly male in its customer base. Why do women shun them? 83% of Tesla 3 owners "identify as male," compared to 49% across all makes.)

70% of all Tesla owners are under 35. Yes, the youngest 20% of drivers dominate Tesla sales.

How will Tesla ever sell to the 80% of the driving population who are over 35 ? The people with money.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Looked at the MGs too before ordering a VW iD3 which has now been delivered.

Perfect for around town daily driver, charge at home and costs about £1 for 40-50 mile range.

 

[markjay]

Precisely, two members converting don't prove the point.

I've only driven the Tesla S, not the Y, which is why I've spoken about renting either the Y or its equivalents on this forthcoming trip. Tesla have dumped 100,000 vehicles into Hertz as part of a year end deal, so it's a choice between that or a dull Ford or Chrysler so it's a chance to see if their suspension and handling is as bad as Autocar, Carwow, Top Gear, and most motoring journalists, say it is. I don't make assumptions, I read the reviews, and I've been driven in the S and 3.

It's also been heavily reported that Hertz have had to dump their rental prices because customers won't accept Teslas.

As I said, we can see on the public roads that Tesla's aren't driven fast, apart from the occasional fast start from a slip road. The evidence is around us. You don't need to drive each model to know that they're not driven fast.

If Teslas were cheap to run, we'd see them on the Council estates where cost of ownership is important. Tesla's aren't cheap to run if you include cost of capital, depreciation etc. The average motorist doing 8,000 miles a year isn't rushing to Tesla's door to pay £53k for an ugly Tesla model Y, unless he's on a corporate tax break.

View attachment 144684

This is why a lease (of the right type) can be useful when opting for an EV - you know exactly how much it will cost you and someone else takes the risk regarding future value.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Looked at the MGs too before ordering a VW iD3 which has now been delivered.

Perfect for around town daily driver, charge at home and costs about £1 for 40-50 mile range.

That's crazy value.

What are your first impressions and any thoughts on how the ID3 compares to the old e-Golf ?

I used to rent the e-Golfs in London through ZipCar and thought them impressive, if a bit delicate. I've yet to see an ID3 on Zipcar