Rank bit of driving...

[Flyer]

I have had the back end of mine step out a few times recently and thought I had a problem. Seeing these posts has made me feel a little better.
It is fun though isn't it

Might I respectfully point you to this thread regarding a Skid Pan/Karting GTG where you can have more of this type of fun

 

[Deleted member 2227]

The most fun I had skidding was at Goodwood. About 30 of us had to race a Sierra around a course covered in oil and water. I came second by handbrake turning the thing at every turn I could, it was such a laugh.


PS.When I first met my now wife (17 years ago) she had a proper mini and I'd been driving it that day. When we got back to her garage I got her to open the doors and then I handbrake turned though 180 degrees and reversed into the garage. She was not in the least bit impressed and just shouted at me about being irresponsible.........

She still married me though!

 

[Steve_Perry]

Wide(ish) tyres, automatic gearboxes and rear-wheel drive don't really go together with snow/slippery road conditions. Out of all 3 cars that I have owned (Peugeot 504 auto, W201 190E Auto & my current W202) they've all been complete nightmares to control in snowy / slippery conditions without the proper snow chains or winter tyres. Still... makes for fun powerslides at 5mph

My all time funny moment was at Uni in my old Pug, parking was always challenge and one wet soggy autumn afternoon I parked up on a grass verge. The off side tyres were on grass and the near side tyres were on tarmac. The car was a simple 3 speed automatic and at the end of the day I couldn't move away from stationary, the rear diff just fed all available power to the one rear wheel that had no grip, the wheel on the tarmac didn't get any driving force at all Heh fortunately I could push the car off the grass on my own and once both driving wheels were on the tarmac the car pulled away as normal There's alot to be said for having a locking differential as an option.

S.

 

[Will]

Thanks for reminding me Will.

I am not sure if it is the same as in all tyres take longer to warm up in these low single figure temperatures?

Or are these F1's particularly poor in cold temperatures?

I know I get max torque at 2500rpm up, but asking around the office, nobody else seems to have had any trouble.

EDIT: or is the science behind it that larger tyres ie 245's take longer to warm up than say a 205?

I think that most normal car tyres, which are often sold as 'summer' tyres, are rated for temperatures above, say, 5c. We all know that as tyres warm up and become somewhat softer, they offer more grip and traction. As an absolute wild stab in the dark, I would say that a larger footprint tyre will take longer to warm up, my reasoning being that there is less pressure on the tyre's surface area due to the vehicle's mass being spread over a larger area?

I do think though that part of these symptoms is due to the immense torque provided by the 230K engine low down in the rev range, as you say, a couple of thousand RPM upwards and it is pushing out most of that torque! A more restrained right foot can easily counter-act this.

I am seriously considering getting a set of winter tyres, firstly because I believe that they would be of benefit for driving around in these lower temperatures (I believe they use a different compound as well as the different tread patterns), and secondly to save my 18" AMG wheels from the aggressive winter salt and grit!

I have a couple of spare sets of wheels (15" steels and some 17" AMG type IIs), and am debating which set I would buy winter tyres for?

Just at the consideration stage at the moment

Cheers,

Will

 

[Steve_Perry]

...I do think though that part of these symptoms is due to the immense torque provided by the 230K engine low down in the rev range, as you say, a couple of thousand RPM upwards and it is pushing out most of that torque! A more restrained right foot can easily counter-act this. ...

While the levels of torque provided by the 230K certainly wouldn't help control in the snow, I think it's more the fact that the combination of rear wheel drive with auto boxes really are poor at giving delicate control on the slippy stuff. Even my humble Peugeot which only had 100BHP (not sure about torque) was a total handful to control at anything above a walking pace (10mph?) in snow or ice, even with the most sensitive of right feet.

There's alot to be said for investing in snow chains or winter tyres/wheels as most of the drivers in mainland Europe do.

S.

 

[Shude]

I have a couple of spare sets of wheels (15" steels and some 17" AMG type IIs), and am debating which set I would buy winter tyres for?

V-rated winter tyres for 15" wheels will be tricky to find, winter tyres for 17" wheels will cost a bomb. I did some research and found that 16" wheels are pretty good for winter tyres, the oem optional winter-wheels are all 16" as well which backed my research up nicely

If you have a very high performance model (but basically AMGs only) then 16" wheels might be a struggle to fit, I'm told you *can* squeeze certain styles of oem 16" alloys onto a car with AMG brakes if you are prepared to use a spacer to push the wheel out a bit.

 

[Howard]

I have had the back end of mine step out a few times recently and thought I had a problem. Seeing these posts has made me feel a little better.
It is fun though isn't it

My car being the first rear wheel drive car i have owned , all the others VW's , Hondas etc. have been front drive.

Now that its damp, I have days where i just can't control myself sometimes and slide it out of every junction i come to (i have to wait for the damp weather because 225 tyres coupled with a 2.3l engine , do not happy sliding partners make in the dry)

Irresponsible i know, but sooooooooo much fun !

 

[nfs_tgb]

i dont think its fun anymore the my car stepped out big time around a rounda bout as there was a lot of surface water and it made it all look stuntish the way i got control and the car lent to one side made me slow down a lot in wet and now i will probably barely move in wet weather if i get another w202 ive seen what happens. and i never have thought cars stepping out is fun perhaps burnouts and handbrake turns and doughnuts but not stepping out you cant judge whats going to happen. unlike in the others. i plan on getting a shity small car to do things like that in on a big concreate surface things like this arnt for the roads its too unsafe even if you think you can control it you cant if the other motorists do what you dont expect.

 

[Howard]

Hmmmmmmm , must say i'm not interested in doing burnouts or doughnuts (other than the chocolate with custard filling kind), used to do them in my CRX VTEC and had lots of fun, but then grew up a bit. I don't think handbrake turns are very predictable, unless you are a pro stunt driver, i watched 5th gear the other day with the guy trying to handbrake turn into a space like in the adverts, and he trashed the car and took many, many attempts, ending up in a different position each time.

Just a bit of fun from a junction, all totally controllable if you're careful, the secret is not to be too bonkers, and have a look at road surface before prodding the throttle, check theres no oil etc obviously in the road. Roundabouts are a different matter though ! far too much speed carried in to one will result in being chewed up and spat out, especially in the wet.

Anyway just a bit of fun, don't do it when the roads are busy or when someone's bearing down on you fast, spinning and sliding may look cool, but it sure isn't the quickest way from A to B !

 

[Big Ed]

Generally speaking, for a winter tyre I'd go for the narrowest tyre you feel comfortable with (guess somewhere around 195/205 for a C230k), since these tend to give better grip in dodgy conditions, as well as less risk of aquaplaning.

As I understand it, the higher speed rating the tyre, the more heat it needs to be able to absorb, therefore is a harder compound, which does not suit cold weather very well at all. I had major problems last winter running Z rated rubber on the M3 - I knew it would be nightmare on ice and snow, and when booting it a bit, but really did not expect to have a problem pulling away from a standstill with the most gentle throttle I could manage in freezing (but dry) conditions. Driving off when the car had been standing in freezing conditions for a few hours would mean wheelspin a plenty for the first few miles on bone dry roads - it was just like driving on the rims (I imagine!).

Would be worth checking with your insurance company, but I know that when I asked mine, they said it would be ok to use tyres of a lower speed rating as a winter tyre, instead of the Z rated standard tyres.....

 

[scotth_uk]

I am driving on 19" 255/35's om the back that are Y rated (higher than Z if I understand correctly). Michelin Pilot Sport 2's and they are fantastic. Not showing any signs of misbehaving in the cold at all. I drive quite enthusiastically, but I am not really finding the roads too bad at present.

 

[Big Ed]

I am driving on 19" 255/35's om the back that are Y rated (higher than Z if I understand correctly).

I believe that W + Y ratings are actually a subcategory of 'Z rated' in order to allow a further degree of differentiation of speed rating - a W rated tyre is a ZR......W to show 168mph speed rating, a Y rated tyre is ZR......Y to show 186mph capability. Either way, your tyres are rated pretty high!! To be fair, my problems were happening when it was below 0 degrees round the clock, so certainly where I live, we haven't had to cope with that temperature for too long yet this winter. The additional 130bhp probably didn't help too much either.....

Glad yours are still giving you good results - your Michelins are probably a far better tyre than the Continentals that mine came with (was never very impressed with them).

 

[scotth_uk]

>your Michelins are probably a far better tyre than the Continentals that mine came with

I think that about 50% of the Crossfires come with Contis and they aren't very popular.

 

[Plodd]

Might I respectfully point you to this thread regarding a Skid Pan/Karting GTG where you can have more of this type of fun

When I did my Police driving standard driving course we had a day on a skid pan that was owned by the force. Old Mk 2 Escort with bald tyres and a soaking wet, oil covered surface. (not a spec of rust on the old thing for some reason) Wonderful fun but totally knackered at the end. The pan has now been sold and we use one of the skid cars on castors at the Fire Brigade training centre.

 

[Flyer]

When I did my Police driving standard driving course we had a day on a skid pan that was owned by the force. Old Mk 2 Escort with bald tyres and a soaking wet, oil covered surface. (not a spec of rust on the old thing for some reason) Wonderful fun but totally knackered at the end. The pan has now been sold and we use one of the skid cars on castors at the Fire Brigade training centre.

Aah, sorry, should have known you'd have done loads of it ...

 

[Plodd]

Aah, sorry, should have known you'd have done loads of it ...

Doesn't mean I wouldn't be up for some more

It was quite a while ago, can't remember if we did it on the advanced course or not. Memory isn't what it was.

 

[Big Ed]

>your Michelins are probably a far better tyre than the Continentals that mine came with

I think that about 50% of the Crossfires come with Contis and they aren't very popular.

Snap - same with M3's - half of them seem to come with Michelins, the other half with Continentals. Unfortunately I seemed to lose that particular lottery.