Ready steady Queue

[Petrol Pete]

Wonder how many private people are aware that you are only allowed to store upto 20l at home unless you know how to get to the 30l limit.

I would wager non of these people know the rules with respect to how much you can transport - "the law is an ass" comes to mind.

Wouldnt it be great if a police officer came over to him and said 'sorry mate, without the correct permit you can not buy that fuel....put it back'

 

[grober]

Seems that Brexit made an existing problem worse. Point is, Brexit is done and dusted, so shouldn't our government have seen this coming, and put mitigations in place before the situation turned into a crisis? Emergency visas and all that could have been done month ago. That's the main criticism that Shapps should answer.

The answer is yes. But this shortage of labour is not confined to HGV drivers--- the agricultural sector, food processing industry, hospitality industry and social and healthcare sectors are similarly effected but lack the immediacy of the present situation- for now

 

[st13phil]

The sad reality is that a general Europe-wide shortage of HGV drivers has been building up for years, but only recently has the UK MSM focussed on it and, predictably, their angle is that it's all the fault of HMG/Brexit. Here’s a relevant article from 2018:

Truck driver shortage crisis now spreading across the whole of Europe

European road transport firms are racing towards a driver shortage crisis of 150,000 unfilled jobs, according to new research from Transport Intelligence.

www.bifa.org

 

[st13phil]

But this shortage of labour is not confined to HGV drivers--- the agricultural sector, food processing industry, hospitality industry and social and healthcare sectors are similarly effected

There is a common factor linking all of those sectors: poor pay and conditions. They have all had an over reliance upon abusing cheap foreign labour for many years while claiming that they can’t persuade the local workforce to do the job.

Most of those sectors do not have long lead times to recruit and train, so if they fixed the pay and conditions issue they’d be in a position to move forward quite rapidly. HGV driving and the healthcare sectors are the exception as they do have significant training lead times which is why the problem makes the headlines and there won’t be a quick fix.

 

[Deleted member 150136]

The Eastern Europeans have left because they can make better money in other countries(like I do), other countries don't pay these people minimum wage because of where they are from like the UK tried to do.
15+ years ago the UK was the place to work for decent money, but the UK has been left behind by its high and mighty 'Great Britain ' attitude, when the fact is the UK is pretty far down the food chain these days due to the work ethic and benefits available.

If the UK paid the same or similar to the rest of most of Europea I would work back for a UK company, but they don't

I'm in a very similar industry as haulage

 

[Darrell]

The Eastern Europeans have left because they can make better money in other countries(like I do), other countries don't pay these people minimum wage because of where they are from like the UK tried to do.
15+ years ago the UK was the place to work for decent money, but the UK has been left behind by its high and mighty 'Great Britain ' attitude, when the fact is the UK is pretty far down the food chain these days due to the work ethic and benefits available.

If the UK paid the same or similar to the rest of most of Europea I would work back for a UK company, but they don't

I'm in a very similar industry as haulage

What I can’t work out though is that there still seems to be a lot of people by-passing safe European countries to get here though.

 

[Deleted member 150136]

What I can’t work out though is that there still seems to be a lot of people by-passing safe European countries to get here though.

For the benefits.

These are the folk who don't want to work for their money.

For workers the UK isn't the go to country anymore.

 

[Darrell]

For the benefits.

These are the folk who don't want to work for their money.

For workers the UK isn't the go to country anymore.

But you said that the U.K. is pretty far down the food chain when it comes to benefits available.

 

[grober]

As MJ remarked B***** is done and dusted and it was acknowledged at the time any major economic change was going to have consequences--the sort of "short term pain for longer term gain" arguement propounded at the time. In today's era of populist politics I believe this has lead to a situation whereby the present government appear reluctant to " own" the short term pain aspects of the UK's new economic position---the result is a reluctance to first acknowledge it and second deal with it lest they lose popularity. We left- there are problems of labour shortages in certain sectors-deal with it!

 

[T5R+]

Wouldnt it be great if a police officer came over to him and said 'sorry mate, without the correct permit you can not buy that fuel....put it back'

For a long while now, I brim + fill a fuel can - as can "top up" at home without having to visit fuel station as often.

I had decided a few days ago that "bad form" to fill a fuel can when others have a need for fuel also. It means I will waste time in a queue as will will to visit fuel station multiple times especially if £30 limit introduced.

I guess in our "me first, me first, me important, me privileged" society we accept.........some of us think of others whilst others think of themself.

 

[Deleted member 150136]

No, for working.
I work with a lot of Eastern Europeans and the last place they want to go is the UK for work.

Long hours, poor pay,poor conditions, shit food, expensive housing/living costs etc etc.

Other countries pay more, work less hours, better conditions,the housing/accommodation is cheaper and the food is better.

The UK looks at itself with rose tinted glasses.

I'd rather work in the UK because I'm English and it's who I am, but I've seen the grass on the other side, and it is greener.

We are sadly lacking in the way we look after our workers.

 

[Darrell]

I see what you mean now. I was taking home more dough in 2006 and 07 than I am now.

There’s plenty of money sloshing about but it’s going into the wrong pockets.

 

[Rich764089]

Wonder how many private people are aware that you are only allowed to store upto 20l at home unless you know how to get to the 30l limit.

I would wager non of these people know the rules with respect to how much you can transport - "the law is an ass" comes to mind.

I do vaguely remember my dad telling me this. Seems a silly law to me, so I'm quite happy to ignore it. Although I don't usually have more than 10 gallons.

 

[Rich764089]

If anyone can unravel the conundrum as to why a proportion of the pool of east European labour left the UK for their home countries over the last 18 months, they’re a better man than me.

Did they leave due to Brexit, or was it because they saw the ability to reach their homes and families evaporating as the unmentionable pandemic developed and therefore made a bolt for home? And of those who still wish to work in the UK and have the required visa to do so, how many are deterred by the ongoing travel restrictions?

This is exactly what I can't work out. Most EU citizens could have stayed in the UK post Brexit if they wanted.

 

[Deleted member 150136]

I see what you mean now. I was taking home more dough in 2006 and 07 than I am now.

There’s plenty of money sloshing about but it’s going into the wrong pockets.

Yes, the uk looks after it's lazy people and shirkers, the workers get the dirty end of the stick.

I'm currently in Sweden(an expensive country), and the Polish guys are buying the rounds in the Bar, buying snacks for the crew etc, 5+ years ago they wouldn't even go in the bar.
At work they are online/gallery showing photos of the new volvo xc60 hybrid/rav4 hybrid/xc40 hybrid they've just bought or are buying.
Now, because it's pretty equal across the board on the pay scale they(Eastern Europeans) don't look as us Brits with envy(finacially) like they used to......its going the other way.

 

[Darrell]

This is exactly what I can't work out. Most EU citizens could have stayed in the UK post Brexit if they wanted.

The Albanian and Romanian boys I work with aren’t interested in going back home.

They’ve settled here, bought homes and their children go to school and university here. A large percentage of the kids only speak English!!

 

[Darrell]

Yes, the uk looks after it's lazy people and shirkers, the workers get the dirty end of the stick.

I'm currently in Sweden(an expensive country), and the Polish guys are buying the rounds in the Bar, buying snacks for the crew etc, 5+ years ago they wouldn't even go in the bar.
At work they are online/gallery showing photos of the new volvo xc60 hybrid/rav4 hybrid/xc40 hybrid they've just bought or are buying.
Now, because it's pretty equal across the board on the pay scale they(Eastern Europeans) don't look as us Brits with envy(finacially) like they used to......its going the other way.

I’ve an idea that this may be confined to a very small percentage of people. Maybe only in a very select group of workers.

Also you refer to the Polish workers. They are on a different level here. There aren’t many Polish workers on construction sites anymore, in fact you’ll be lucky to find any.
There’s not many Lithuanians or Ukrainians either.

The labour in the construction industry is primarily made up of Romanians and Albanians with some Bulgarians chucked in for good measure. The Brits and the Asians are tiny in comparison.

 

[Rich764089]

The Albanian and Romanian boys I work with aren’t interested in going back home.

They’ve settled here, bought homes and their children go to school and university here. A large percentage of the kids only speak English!!

Exactly. So why the issues with lorry drivers, agricultural/ food industry workers? Why did these guys choose to go back to "their" countries?

 

[Deleted member 150136]

I’ve an idea that this may be confined to a very small percentage of people.

It's the ones who work away and then go home, not like your guys who Live in the UK.
Your guys are integrated in the country/community so this is their home and no need to go ' back home'.
The truck drivers never lived in the UK so it's a different ball game.

Now because of the pandemic and/or brexit they have had to go elsewhere to find work, realised there is no point in going back to the UK and all the visas etc that is needed.
Whereas before it was financially worth it, now it isn't.
If the UK was the golden goose it used to be then they would be applying for visas etc.

 

[st13phil]

Most EU citizens could have stayed in the UK post Brexit if they wanted.

And a huge number did, for example:

The Albanian and Romanian boys I work with aren’t interested in going back home.

They’ve settled here, bought homes and their children go to school and university here. A large percentage of the kids only speak English!!

There will forever be arguments over what the immediate aftermath of the UK leaving the EU had on our labour market, but there are many confounding factors that make a clear indisputable analysis largely impossible.

However, the fundamental of employment is that it responds to market forces. If there's a shortage of labour then the cost in terms of pay and conditions goes up; if there's a surplus, the cost goes down.