Rust - Legal Action

[candie08]

The one factor in your favour is the fact that Mercedes switched to galvanised panels mid model stream during 2002. Based upon the amount of traffic on this issue on the internet, it would be very difficult for them to deny that they were unaware of any rust problems, especially when they were making so many goodwill settlements on this very issue.
Unfortunately, as the recession bit, they appear to have toughened their stance on this.
I fear though, that even if any action was succesful, it is unlikely that the court would see fit to order more than a contribution towards the cost of repairs on an 8 or 9 year old car.
I recently managed to get a rust issue resolved for a customer with a 2002 220 series, although that was not a 100% settlement. In this particular instance however, the car carried a full MB history, & had been bought as an MB Approved used car in April '08 with 23000 miles.
Good luck.

 

[Olivier]

No matter what is said on the " it should have been looked at the dealer", its from the inside out. The sealand is covering the issue making it worse.
I had the perch done on a goodwill ( thank you I am really greatfull) 4 months ago at the MB repair centre and they didn't even spotted this. Now this is a serious rust that I have there. This is something that as been badly manufactured from the start for what ever reason at the time. What ever could be New technologie or cheaper cost, its from the day the car as been manifactured.
A recent owner had to do his perch 2 weeks ago after getting the car just over a month ago. There is goind to be more and more. There is already over 2000 perchs sold in the UK alone this year, I don't know about the rear subframe but as the OP said, his was bad as well, I guess there are also a huge numbers on those that need to be fixed.
Olivier

 

[candie08]

Oliver, I couldn't agree more.
However the harsh reality is that Mercedes are still riding on their reputation of old.
As they add more toys & price their cars more in line with their competitors, quality drops. Whilst the three pointed star may still have some status attached to it, in reality they are just another repmobile nowadays.
What is so sad about this whole situation though, is the way in which the attitude to customer service has changed. As was stated in another post by somebody, it seems that a customer no longer needs to be retained as there are always more waiting to fill their shoes.

 

[Olivier]

Hi Candie,
I don't think so, you always need to get more customers at the door. Customers are not expendables.
There will not be enough left if the old (EX) customers are not happy.
Remember, a happy customer will tell 2 friends
An un-happy customer will tell 10+
After awhile, as we might start to see now, the balance is going only one way, no matter how your statue was earlier.
If you don't improve, you will fail. Its a business rule.
Olivier

 

[markz]

The key is though why didn't Mercedes spot the structural stuff on your cars. Did you service it with them during the period that the structural rust was becoming evident? If not you have failed to give them opportunity to mitigate the rust issue (one which they, you and everybody else acknowledge exists).

What they will say is not that the rust is not their fault, merely that in your case they are no longer liable since you took the car away from their network and the appropriate preventative/remedial steps have not been taken to monitor and keep the problem in check.

Discovery 2s rust from the middle back, people recommend getting them regularly undersealed. Mine has been and is a '99 with only a little rust. My dad's is an '02 and in a much worse state underneath. If you don't want a rusty car don't buy a Merc of this era (or a Discovery 2 for that matter)!

I had the car serviced in several MB dealers and certainly my local MB dealer wrote to me several times and even called to remind me the MOT was due - never once did any of them mention I needed to get the car inspected for potential corrective treatment or preventative maintenance to prevent corrosion. Had they have done so I would have been the first in the queue!

 

[markz]

The one factor in your favour is the fact that Mercedes switched to galvanised panels mid model stream during 2002. Based upon the amount of traffic on this issue on the internet, it would be very difficult for them to deny that they were unaware of any rust problems, especially when they were making so many goodwill settlements on this very issue.
Unfortunately, as the recession bit, they appear to have toughened their stance on this.
I fear though, that even if any action was succesful, it is unlikely that the court would see fit to order more than a contribution towards the cost of repairs on an 8 or 9 year old car.
I recently managed to get a rust issue resolved for a customer with a 2002 220 series, although that was not a 100% settlement. In this particular instance however, the car carried a full MB history, & had been bought as an MB Approved used car in April '08 with 23000 miles.
Good luck.

Candie

I appreciate what you say, when I purchased the car it was a big step up for me and I justified it over 250,000 miles or ten years. I have spent an absolute fortune keeping it in A1 mechanical working order, replacing many components. I don't have an issue with this, all things wear out, however I didn't expect to own a rust bucket, the corrosion on my car can not be justified even though I have some very amusing letters from MB trying to do exactly this.

 

[Olivier]

Candie

I appreciate what you say, when I purchased the car it was a big step up for me and I justified it over 250,000 miles or ten years. I have spent an absolute fortune keeping it in A1 mechanical working order, replacing many components. I don't have an issue with this, all things wear out, however I didn't expect to own a rust bucket, the corrosion on my car can not be justified even though I have some very amusing letters from MB trying to do exactly this.

This is exactly what I said to MB, the car maintenance I don't mind, its part of owning a car, things need to be changed as time goes by, but this rust on the chassis... No. This is something terribly wrong that as been there since the manufacturing of the vehicle.
By the way the more I look at the hole in my rear sub-frame support, the more I worry...

 

[markz]

How old was the car in question at the time of that case?

It was one case the owner had two cars one CLK and one E240 estate both low mileage but one 10 years old and one 8 years and 7 months. MB offered 20% and 30 % contribution only, owner was looking at £3000.

Small claims court cost £135 but the owner got all his money back.

His central argument was the quality of the cars was lacking from the start

 

[crockers]

Just a thought. Did you buy your cars new or used? if the latter does it weaken ones case?

 

[Olivier]

The point is not if it was new or not when bought it, the point is that the "fault"was already in the car the day he was made due to something wrong on the assembly line, again, this could have been to save money or trying new techniques, but the main point is that the car was "born" with this rust cancer due some priming or other.
Something to give thoughts, if you go in the contry side, you have those old bar metal fences that have been there on the open for over 50 years and never been resprayed, and they show a lot less or none corrosion compare to a mercedes chassis that as been treated, primed, painted and sealed that is now rotten with heavy corrosion and this after only 12 years. Now, this is something, no?

 

[candie08]

Just a thought. Did you buy your cars new or used? if the latter does it weaken ones case?

I'm not sure in the eyes of the law, but I do think that it makes a difference to the way MB look at the case.
I only made progress in my customers case when I pointed out that they were long standing Mercedes owners of 24 years, with both the family cars being Mercs for the last 20 years.

I do stand by my assertion that they believe customers to be replacable - the demographic of Mercedes ownership has shifted considerably over the last 10 years or so. Car for your pound (toys etc), Mercedes is now much more mainstream. UK society is now much more image conscious. MB's attitude is a result of the trend of having accountants run the company. Whilst I couldn't disagree that the ways of old could not continue, I do mourn their passing.
To balance this out, it should be stated that MB do look after their customers far better with regard to goodwill than most mainstream manufacturers.

I'm new to this forum (but not Mercs),so forgive me if I'm going off on a bit of a rant!

 

[Smiley]

Mark,
I think you have worked out that you can complain to MB until you are blue in the face and nothing will change.
I would be very angry if I were in your position and would expect some admission of responsibility from MB and some form of compensation. It is just about how much this compensation is - as has been said it is either the cost to make good (which sounds like it will be thousands of pounds) or the loss in value of the car - which actually could also be thousands because you could argue that you have over invested in the mechanical servicing in the expectation of an extended 15 or 20 year life of the car.

If it were me I would obtain a detailed written quotation for the remedial work - the whole frigging lot to bring the car to the equivalent condition of a well maintained 8 yr old car - then I would send it to MB with a polite letter asking for the payment. Give them the opportunity to inspect the car and ask for their confirmation within 14 days. Keep it brief; explain that they had accepted that there had been serious corrosion issues with the car and that they have already carried out extensive remedial work which has now proven not to have cured the underlying problems. Explain that if they do not accept the liability or you do not hear within 14 days then you will issue the summons in the small claims court. Then just do it, dont mess about waiting - you will then stir their machine into real action and you could end up with the cheque - but you will be defo be subject to a gagging order so I would limit what you put on the internet - you could prejudice the value of that gagging clause to MB and then they wont pay.
Good luck.

 

[219]

Hmmm , I'd suspect that even if the OP won his case , payment could be limited to the market value of a 210 - which isn't a lot .

Much as with insurers when a repair may be possible but not economical to carry out they'd say 'you can buy a similar vehicle for £xxx so we'll give you that amount rather than spending £xxxx repairing yours' .

 

[nick mercedes]

thereafter serviced by local specialist company by Mercedes trained technicians

That will make a goodwill repair unlikely.

Factor in a 9 year old car in a seaside town and the court route looks (to me) to be a waste of time.

How long did you think a car would last before showing signs of wear?

 

[Olivier]

OK, this need to be clarified as it seems some don't do the differences, this is no sign of wear. This is total corrosion. There is a huge difference between sign of wear and holes in the frame.
Wear: wear is the erosion of material from a solid surface by the action of another surface
from Wear - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Corrosion is the disintegration of an engineered material into its constituent atoms due to chemical reactions with its surroundingsCorrosion is the disintegration of an engineered material into its constituent atoms due to chemical reactions with its surroundingsCorrosion.
from: Corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The hole in my frame is disintegration. This is no wear!

 

[nick mercedes]

The hole in my frame is disintegration. This is no wear!

All rust on any car is from wear/use.

How quicky it takes root is down to build/design quality but they all rust away in the end.

 

[Olivier]

They do rust away in the end ( that could be 20 years), but there is a huge difference in rust away and rot away in 10 years...

 

[nick mercedes]

They do rust away in the end ( that could be 20 years), but there is a huge difference in rust away and rot away in 10 years...

Not really, average life of a car in the UK is 10 years, anything you get after that is a bonus.

 

[Olivier]

This would be mainly due to wear. Engine, electric etc... Not because the chassis rotted away. If you have a wee 1.2 litre engine car, it will indeed usually wear and perhaps died in 10 years, the body/ frame would still be in good shape.
Are you saying that Mercedes are made to last 10 years, then after that its a bonus. Woohoo... This is new to me...

 

[nick mercedes]

This would be mainly due to wear. Engine, electric etc... Not because the chassis rotted away. If you have a wee 1.2 litre engine car, it will indeed usually wear and perhaps died in 10 years, the body/ frame would still be in good shape.
Are you saying that Mercedes are made to last 10 years, then after that its a bonus. Woohoo... This is new to me...

Steel rusts, cars rust, fact of life, while cars rust a lot less than they did, many are scrapped due to being rusty beyond economic repair, MBs included.

Cars aren't made to last 10 years, that's about their lifespan.

I would say that MBs are made to last 6 years.

Most cars are brought on lease or credit over 3 years, once the lease is up the clean ones go on to be retailed as approved used cars, with a years warrenty or possibly 2 years.

After that, who cares?

The manufacturer has made their money, and anyone who buys a new one won't really care if it lasts forever as they'll be getting a new one every three years anyway...