Speeding

[219]

It's not so much the fine as , who gets the points ?

1-1/2 points each ?

 

[glojo]

It's not so much the fine as , who gets the points ?

1-1/2 points each ?

Three each might quickly refresh the memory

John

 

[petef]

Only one person can be charged with the offence....

 

[inder]

A friend of mine is "testing" this out right now.
He was speeding on a rural dual carriagway with a limit that has been reduced from 70 to 40 mph. He has asked for the photo which is clear enough.
His next move was to follow the advice above and sent a covering letter but didn't fill in the NIP form. The advice to do this came from supposedly knowledgable legal practitioner and he had to pay for it.
He recieved a letter back from our earstwile constabulary telling him he was mistaken to use the defence and the case has been referred to the CPS.
In the last couple of days he has recieved a summons to court.
Of course the CPS might be bluffing and give in on the day.
I'll update when there is more news.

I fear Plodd may be right about this issue.

I believe they may be right too - I'm sure that the letter quoted is one of these urban myths as I've read about it before. But time will tell.

 

[Swiss Toni]

Only one person can be charged with the offence....

Unless it is a conspiracy. Which it would be.

 

[996jimbo]

I believe the current position regarding the PACE defense is that magistrates are instructed to convict anyway. That means you then have to appeal which means that if you loose you face considerable costs.

 

[glojo]

I believe the current position regarding the PACE defense is that magistrates are instructed to convict anyway. That means you then have to appeal which means that if you loose you face considerable costs.

I find that very hard to believe. In my experience Magistrates tend to do just the opposite.

John

 

[petef]

I find that very hard to believe. In my experience Magistrates tend to do just the opposite.

John

Absolutely John...if every thieving scumbag can get off with their criminal activities I am sure ( even if it gets that far which I doubt ) I have a fair chance of gettin off with a speedin ticket...I know,.... I will put my suite on and impress the magistrates .... ...errrr no, sorry, on second thoughts I will borrow a Lacoste track suit from one of the locals, get a Stone Island base ball cap, loose the job, acquire a mental health issue, apply for legal aid, plead poverty, get addicted to heroin, request a probation report and I will be half way there to getting an absolute discharge...seriously though, I will keep you informed as time passes by. I have received the notification in the past couple of days...I will now ask for the photograph...and hey If I loose so what, its only money,.........its just the principal to me

 

[Flasheart]

I will put my suite on and impress the magistrates

yes the balancing act of having a sofa and a couple of armchairs on your head should do the trick.

Or you could try and stop society's rot and take responsibility for your own actions and not blame them on some fictional event or condition. If as you say you truly believe it is only money then take your punishment like a man.

 

[Spinal]

yes the balancing act of having a sofa and a couple of armchairs on your head should do the trick.

Or you could try and stop society's rot and take responsibility for your own actions and not blame them on some fictional event or condition. If as you say you truly believe it is only money then take your punishment like a man.

I dont think he is trying to avoid his responsability.... in fact, I'm pretty sure that no-matter what way the magistrates rule, he will pay ALOT more attention to road signs, no matter how ridiculous they are (parking lot/M25 comes to mind here, random fluctuations from 30 to 70 between one gantry and the other, with no previous warning... and no reason...)

That said, I fully support ANYONE fighting the system as it is right now. I grew up in an American system (keep the flames coming by pm ) where people were innocent until proven guilty... this isn't so in the states as it isn't so in the UK anymore. I too am going to court in October (though not for speeding) and put in a nutshell, the accusation is "you did something bad. prove you didn't". Innocent until proven guilty (imo at least) means that they need to prove that I did something wrong... which they can't as their only "witness" wasn't there at the time... BAH... anyways, back to the point. I am quite opposed to speed camera's; in all senses. I feel that they are a great source of revenue, but are grossly mismanaged. Camera's should be set quite fairly higher than the limit, not to catch the occasional overtaker, but to catch the annoying racers doing thrice the speed limit in residential areas. (imho)

As for all the gimmicks to get off... well, if the people don't like a law/rule... they should have the power to change it... that is democracy after all isn't it? How do the British people go about changing speed camera regulations? Quite frankly, I don't think you/we can anymore. The system has come alive, and has a mind of its own. Now, we live under an increasingly BB government, who will find new ways to gain revenue.

IMO, as a recent graduate, the thing to do is get a job in the government, they seem to be paid well, and diplomats don't seem to care about fines... (See the friendly american ambassador and the congestion charge)...

So in closing my rant, Good Luck to all those who are going to court against speed-camera related offences, you have all my support (and this comes from someone who has NEVER been booked for speeding...)

Michele
p.s. </rant>

 

[glojo]

Or you could try and stop society's rot and take responsibility for your own actions and not blame them on some fictional event or condition. If as you say you truly believe it is only money then take your punishment like a man.

I hate any system where money buys innocence, but having been to more countries than I care to remember justice has always been an idealistic word and there is simply not a perfect system.

Why should petef be any different from everyone else that tries there hardest to get away with something they are alleged to have done? As the accused we might all believe we are innocent, but if we are completely 100% honest???? I just wonder how innocent we would be?

Good luck I say, but don't whine if you are found guilty (I know you won't and best wishes)

John

 

[Flasheart]

Spinal - recalling your diatribes from other threads, i believe far from being found guilty already as that is not possible as you haven't been to a court yet, you have been charged with an offence. You have an opportunity to present your evidence and the prosecution has the opportunity to present its evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that you committed the offence as charged. Please don't try and come appear to be an individual that has been wronged by the courts - all that has happened so far is that you have been charged, you have not been found guilty at all. If you go into court with that attitude it wouldn't surprise me if the magistrates did you find you guilty merely for showing the disrespect and contempt you clearly have for the judicial system. You are of course correct in your statement that if people do not like a law they should go about changing it, so vote for someone next time who will give you the change of law if you are in fact allowed to vote in this country. As for including the US Embassy and the congestion charge you show how blinkered you are. Under the relevant conventions those with diplomatic immunity are exempt from various court imposed decisions such as fines, where as the congestion charge is a toll levied in much the same way that using the Severn Bridge/M6 by pass etc are. This is not a fine. But hey that doesn't fit in with your we are all persecuted for doing nothing wrong.

Maybe you would prefer it if there were no rules/laws/highway code on the roads - that way we could all do what we want. Where i have been working for the last 3 years i have seen that at first hand - it doesn't work.

 

[Spinal]

Spinal - recalling your diatribes from other threads, i believe far from being found guilty already as that is not possible as you haven't been to a court yet, you have been charged with an offence. You have an opportunity to present your evidence and the prosecution has the opportunity to present its evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that you committed the offence as charged. Please don't try and come appear to be an individual that has been wronged by the courts - all that has happened so far is that you have been charged, you have not been found guilty at all. If you go into court with that attitude it wouldn't surprise me if the magistrates did you find you guilty merely for showing the disrespect and contempt you clearly have for the judicial system. You are of course correct in your statement that if people do not like a law they should go about changing it, so vote for someone next time who will give you the change of law if you are in fact allowed to vote in this country. As for including the US Embassy and the congestion charge you show how blinkered you are. Under the relevant conventions those with diplomatic immunity are exempt from various court imposed decisions such as fines, where as the congestion charge is a toll levied in much the same way that using the Severn Bridge/M6 by pass etc are. This is not a fine. But hey that doesn't fit in with your we are all persecuted for doing nothing wrong.

Maybe you would prefer it if there were no rules/laws/highway code on the roads - that way we could all do what we want. Where i have been working for the last 3 years i have seen that at first hand - it doesn't work.

I'm about to go skiing on the glacier near here, so I'm not in a ranty mood . Anyways, have a look up on whats happening with the US Embassy... "friendly ken" has not only put some fairly large fines on the embassy staff for not paying the CC, but since they haven't paid the fines either, has started a court case in the US to get them to pay...

As for my court case, that is not my attitude to the case (re: I have been "wronged" by the courts, I haven't...), that is my attitude to how cases are handled nowadays in most of the "civilized" world. Any mention of "terrorism" and you can be locked up for as long as they want, even if the "rules" say you can't. Similarly (but on a smaller scale) I see the same thing for speed camera convictions in the UK. At the moment, I am in Italy, where a speed camera CANNOT take a picture of you (amongst other things for privacy reasons) unless there is a physical (blood and bones) policeman behind it that will stop you and inform you that you have been caught speeding and that they intend to fine you. This is too extreme in the other way, but at the same time, I haven't found a place where a "just" middle has been found (imo).

As for voting for those who do... I try... but they politicians change what they say or those you vote for don't win... That doesn't mean I don't vote... I still vote and suck it up when the person I don't like doesn't win...
That doesn't stop me from whining though

Anyhoo, enough with the bile I'm off skiing... (Glacier of la Meie... or something, I have no idea how its spelt... I just know how its pronounced Its even better as its in France, so I get to wear my ITALIA CAMPIONI DEL MONDO t-shirt....

Michele

 

[glojo]

Good morning Flasheart,
I think you might have perhaps been a bit harsh on Spinal? I read his 'accident' thread with great interest and I don't think he was in anyway OTT with his comments??

In this modern age I have found the Police\CPS very loathe to prosecute anyone for the more serious motoring offences? (I include Section 3 in this statement) Spinal may well be found not guilty, but what we must all surely understand is the fact that the CPS will not go ahead unless they are at the very least 80% sure of a conviction?? No you are NOT guilty until proved innocent, the CPS simply are afraid of loosing

So good luck to Spinal, but let us not forget that with most prosecutions there is always at least one victim?? I don't suppose the motor cyclist is wishing Spinal good luck, and perhaps if he is a member of a forum, he will be getting an equal amount of sympathy??

Regards,
John

 

[Swiss Toni]

Until proven guilty...

Going a little off-topic here, but...

Had to laugh when I heard that the Met are to prosecuted under Health & Safety Law for the shooting of the innocent Brazilian.

The CPS stated there was no evidence to support a criminal prosecution against any of the individuals involved.

However, the Met will be prosecuted under H&S.

Now. Reading what John says above (which is perfectly true) that Spinal is innocent, but being put through the legal process (which may not be pleasant, but is the price of having the best legal system in the world), he is in the eyes of the law, innocent.

IF he were being prosecuted under H&S law (as the MetPol are), they have to prove they are innocent and the starting assumtion is of guilt (!!!)

Btw - if you are an employer, you might want to take note. It is the same H&S law that protects your workers, your customers and the public from the actions of you or your employees....

 

[glojo]

Staying waaaay off topic, the Health & Safety Laws are no doubt a great source of protection when applied correctly, but in my opinion this law can be abused just as much as the Human Rights laws and it appears that our wonderful country has gone silly in their application.

John