The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

If we don’t reduce our dependency on fossil fuels then economics will.

Left and Green politicians are about to give another shove. Taxation will only go in one direction.

The industry can only go in one direction. It has to create more efficient vehicles for the world market as it adds another 2 billion vehicles to the 1.5 billion we already have

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I do not find ICE vehicles unpleasant at a local/ urban level. The compelling environmental argument against endless consumerism/ having to have the latest thing such as a BEV. Self explanatory surely?

Like all things, it’s a about perspective. Living, working or being schooled next to a constant queue of traffic might bring a different one.

 

[markjay]

City centres have many & various forms of public transport. That is the 'green' option. Not a proliferation of urban BEV's.
* No problem with cheap domestically manufactured urban BEV's for the disabled/ infirm. A modern day version of the UK made AC "Invacar". See Frances Renault Twizy or Citroen Ami.

The worlds geologists are certainly not idiots. Geological records of ancient temperature exist and are accurate. That is how we know there was an ice age just yesterday, circa 20,000 years ago.

Future generations will be walking not driving BEV's. The phasing out of personal mobility.

Regression. Not something to celebrate imo.

Regarding traffic in city centres, we're actually in agreement here, because as far as I'm concerned all city centres should be closed to private vehicles (with special permits for the disabled and tradesmen etc), and anyone wishing to enter the city will use the train or a park-and-ride car park away from the city limits (like they already have in a few places in the UK). My support for EVs in city centres is because it's the 'second best' option, and realistically, I do realise that banning private vehicles from all city centres is a tall order as far as public option goes.

Regarding climate change, the only areas where I am willing to entertain a debate (i.e.: voice my opinions in an authoritative manner....) in spite of having no relevant training or formal qualifications are engine oil, tyres, and premium fuels.... so I'll give this one a pass.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Valid points. I'd still be interested to know how horizontal solar panels would work out in winter with snow/ice on them and short/gloomy days. For a 100 metre crossing I'd have thought battery power with a charger to top up from each side would be a much more practical solution.

I dare say there will be a charger too. The solar panels will almost certainly be about (1) being as sustainable as possible; (2) reducing operating costs; and (3) having some resilience for some continuity of service in the event of a power outage to reduce the need for diesel generators.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Switching to the Hydrogen fuel cell alternative, I noticed Autocar talking about Coventry University’s PhD students who are working on a hydrogen fuel supercar design for production within 3-4 years

Coventry Uni being the big “car” university for all the obvious reasons.

What kind of PhDs do this kind of work, you may ask… The answer’s in the team photo

 

[markjay]

I worked on the South Bank (near Waterloo station) and the Strand until I retired in 2020 and never noticed any issues with air quality, even walking to/from the station in the rush hour. Before that ('80s) I was based on the Marylebone Road (A501) and that was pretty unpleasant a lot of the time. Loads of diesels back then and no emission controls. We had a first floor office with no aircon, so the choice in summer was to roast with the windows closed or choke with them open. Gotta love retail companies (British Home Stores head office).

Certainly, air quality in London (and other cities) has improved significantly over the past few decades, in spite of constant moaning from the motorist community about the need to modify engines to run on unleaded petrol, about the mandatory fitting of power-robbing catalytic converters to all new vehicles, annoying DPFs, engine-killing EGRs, and now also about the move to electric-powered vehicles.

However, there's good and there's better. This is what Mr Google has to say about it:

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Certainly, air quality in London (and other cities) has improved significantly over the past few decades, in spite of constant moaning from the motorist community about the need to modify engines to run on unleaded petrol, about the mandatory fitting of power-robbing catalytic converters to all new vehicles, annoying DPFs, engine-killing EGRs, and now also about the move to electric-powered vehicles.

However, there's good and there's better. This is what Mr Google has to say about it:

Interesting stats but they don’t illustrate the enormous progress we’ve already made.

As discussed earlier, you could cut the Marylebone Road air with a knife in 1980 when I worked behind Capital Radio.

Scroll forward to 1990 and the Farringdon Road and Putney High Street were obscenely dirty and smoggy on days without wind

Today? Immensely cleaner by every measure

And getting cleaner every year as we scrap vehicles that were built more than two decades ago.

To understand our progress, we need a chart of emissions over the decades, not a statement that it’s still not good enough.

 

[markjay]

Switching to the Hydrogen fuel cell alternative, I noticed Autocar talking about Coventry University’s PhD students who are working on a hydrogen fuel supercar design for production within 3-4 years

Coventry Uni being the big “car” university for all the obvious reasons.

What kind of PhDs do this kind of work, you may ask… The answer’s in the team photo

View attachment 162019

Assuming that those with non-white facial features are indeed foreign students (which is not a given), then they come, they get trained, and they go back to their home countries and work in manufacturing in the Far East etc. What do we get in return? The students from far away places are exposed to British culture, values, language, etc. It's a fair trade, and certainly preferable to spreading British values via Colonialism (plus they pay handsomely, which helps).

 

[ChipChop]

Air quality in the Newcastle area improved mainly due to the loss of heavy industry from the Tyne. The UK used to have a lot of heavy industry i am led to believe. Now that industry & pollution is elsewhere.

Private cars of all kinds, up to 3.5t are still permitted to drive into Newcastle city centre btw. No restrictions, bar the cities road network being motorist unfriendly by design.

 

[markjay]

Air quality in the Newcastle area improved mainly due to the loss of heavy industry from the Tyne. The UK used to have a lot of heavy industry i am led to believe. Now that industry & pollution is elsewhere.

Private cars of all kinds, up to 3.5t are still permitted to drive into Newcastle city centre btw. No restrictions, bar the cities road network now being motorist unfriendly by design.

As I said... there's good, and there's better. One must never rest on your laurels.

 

[markjay]

Interesting stats but they don’t illustrate the enormous progress we’ve already made.

As discussed earlier, you could cut the Marylebone Road air with a knife in 1980 when I worked behind Capital Radio.

Scroll forward to 1990 and the Farringdon Road and Putney High Street were obscenely dirty and smoggy on days without wind

Today? Immensely cleaner by every measure

And getting cleaner every year as we scrap vehicles that were built more than two decades ago.

To understand our progress, we need a chart of emissions over the decades, not a statement that it’s still not good enough.

See my response to ChipChop above.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Explaining the warming periods recorded pre industrialisation would be a good start.

Of course there have been warmer period and temps rising and falling through time.....but the big difference this time is the RATE of change. There are no recorded incidents (in ice cores and rock samples) of the temps EVER increasing at the rate they have since the industrial revolution. So in the past the ecosystem, animals etc etc have had far longer to evolve or migrate to cope than the planet has now.

 

[markjay]

Speaking of Germany ...

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I do agree that tackling the CO2 emissions of a small craft powered by a single diesel engine, especially when considering that it was always going to be a complex and expensive project, in the pursuit of Net Zero, is sheer madness. There are far more pressing issues that could have been dealt with quicker and cheaper to reduce CO2 emissions.

And I will also concede that any technological failure reflects badly on the entire relevant industry.

But having said that, this entire farce looks like complete idiocy. All of the issues raised could have been easily prevented if someone did their homework and had it all calculated in advance. We have powerful computers these days who can carry out complex simulations (but realistically the required calculations could have been done using an abacus...). Based on the information presented in this YouTube clip, it's all down to poor planning and lazy engineers. I mean, we can calculate the trajectory of a spacecraft to intercept an astroid in space, land on it, collect rock samples and then come back to earth, but we can't work our what is needed to sail a solar powered fairy across a fjord? Seriously?

In any event, the failure of one project (in this case, due to sheer incompetence, it seems) is neither here not there when it comes to the viability of solar powered vessels, or Net Zero in general. But, of course, it will be pounced upon by interested parties to promote their own anti Net Zero agenda.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Hope none of you are in a hurry to stop climate change. Just stumbled across this gem from a scientific paper from NASA....



Will climate change stop if we stop emitting carbon tomorrow?

No. Even if emissions of greenhouse gases were to suddenly stop, Earth's surface temperature would require thousands of years to cool and return to the level in the pre-industrial era.

 

[markjay]

Hope none of you are in a hurry to stop climate change. Just stumbled across this gem from a scientific paper from NASA....



Will climate change stop if we stop emitting carbon tomorrow?

No. Even if emissions of greenhouse gases were to suddenly stop, Earth's surface temperature would require thousands of years to cool and return to the level in the pre-industrial era.

So we're already f***ed... might as well just make a bonfire then.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

See my response to ChipChop above.

Would bottled air from Switzerland help?

Ban all Lorries, buses, vans, and private motor vehicles?

As you said... “there's good, and there's better. One must never rest on one’s laurels.”

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Hope none of you are in a hurry to stop climate change. Just stumbled across this gem from a scientific paper from NASA....



Will climate change stop if we stop emitting carbon tomorrow?

No. Even if emissions of greenhouse gases were to suddenly stop, Earth's surface temperature would require thousands of years to cool and return to the level in the pre-industrial era.

I’d love to look at the formulae in that spreadsheet.

Realistically, no-one gives a stuff about Norfolk, the uk coastline, let alone Florida, Texas and Australia.

Ski resorts, UK seaside towns? Who cares?

Aren’t the Scientists saying that we don’t know where we’re going if climate change continues in this direction, so that’s the reason to slow,M the pace of change?

 

[ALFAitalia]

So we're already f***ed... might as well just make a bonfire then.

I'm not saying that at all.....we clearly need to do something.....and of course slowing down the rate of temp rise and carbon output can only be good or the temps will never drop.....at least while there are still humans burning stuff.. Just don't expect to notice any difference anytime soon.

 

[PXW]

Not sure if this is in the right thread but my Tesla messaged me the other day to remind me that it was now five years old. A few observations from being a fully EV household for half a decade and 52000 miles:

1. It has never caught fire or run out of battery charge. In fact it has never broken down. The only service items have been new cabin air filters and front suspension control arms which were replaced under warranty. There have been literally no other servicing requirements or costs at all, apart from normal things like tyres and washer fluid.

2. It is on its second set of tyres and these have about another 6-8000 miles left in them

3. It is ridiculously cheap to run. I do have a 7kw smart wall charger and, yes, I did spend money to have that installed. But the electricity that passes through it is either free from my solar panels or 7p/kwh from the grid.

4. 1 Kw/hr gives me about 4.5 miles of driving. Even if my “conversion loss on charging” was 50% (and it isn’t) we are only looking at a fuel cost of about 3p per mile. (In practise it is almost certainly well under that, though the numbers involved are so small that I can’t be bothered to work it out precisely! )

5. I have travelled the length and breadth of the country and never suffered range anxiety, nor had any problem charging. In the early days when there were more areas with relatively few chargers, I confess I might have spent ten minutes or so before the journey just checking up on charging options. A 1400 mile trip around France was a similar story.

6. Charging on the go is straightforward, quick, and not ridiculously expensive. I admit I do have the advantage of the Tesla network here which is typically 40-45pkw/h; I have perhaps just once or twice needed to use any of the “please keep buying petrol” chargers at the likes of BP or Shell.

7. Most times when charging away from home I barely have time for a comfort break. On some occasions I might need to do a longer charge (maybe 30 minutes worth) but there’s always Netflix on the car’s screen to pass the time.

In fairness, I should also list the downsides:

1. It’s whisper quiet so occasionally you end up folllowing an unaware pedestrian in a car park
2. Whilst it is incredibly competent, you don’t get that “take it by the scruff of the neck” driving experience…which frankly I’m too old for now anyway…
3. The thing is so effective and reliable that I cannot even get close to a demonstrating a case to change to senior management, so we seem to be stuck with it for the foreseeable future…

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Not sure if this is in the right thread but my Tesla messaged me the other day to remind me that it was now five years old. A few observations from being a fully EV household for half a decade and 52000 miles:

1. It has never caught fire or run out of battery charge. In fact it has never broken down. The only service items have been new cabin air filters and front suspension control arms which were replaced under warranty. There have been literally no other servicing requirements or costs at all, apart from normal things like tyres and washer fluid.

2. It is on its second set of tyres and these have about another 6-8000 miles left in them

3. It is ridiculously cheap to run. I do have a 7kw smart wall charger and, yes, I did spend money to have that installed. But the electricity that passes through it is either free from my solar panels or 7p/kwh from the grid.

4. 1 Kw/hr gives me about 4.5 miles of driving. Even if my “conversion loss on charging” was 50% (and it isn’t) we are only looking at a fuel cost of about 3p per mile. (In practise it is almost certainly well under that, though the numbers involved are so small that I can’t be bothered to work it out precisely! )

5. I have travelled the length and breadth of the country and never suffered range anxiety, nor had any problem charging. In the early days when there were more areas with relatively few chargers, I confess I might have spent ten minutes or so before the journey just checking up on charging options. A 1400 mile trip around France was a similar story.

6. Charging on the go is straightforward, quick, and not ridiculously expensive. I admit I do have the advantage of the Tesla network here which is typically 40-45pkw/h; I have perhaps just once or twice needed to use any of the “please keep buying petrol” chargers at the likes of BP or Shell.

7. Most times when charging away from home I barely have time for a comfort break. On some occasions I might need to do a longer charge (maybe 30 minutes worth) but there’s always Netflix on the car’s screen to pass the time.

In fairness, I should also list the downsides:

1. It’s whisper quiet so occasionally you end up folllowing an unaware pedestrian in a car park
2. Whilst it is incredibly competent, you don’t get that “take it by the scruff of the neck” driving experience…which frankly I’m too old for now anyway…
3. The thing is so effective and reliable that I cannot even get close to a demonstrating a case to change to senior management, so we seem to be stuck with it for the foreseeable future…

What a load of poppycock, you clearly don't know what you’re talking about. It’s the complete opposite of what all of armchair experts, sensationalist YouTubers and red top newspapers and state categorically.