The EV fact thread

[Bobby Dazzler]

You do get the feeling, at times, that people are quick to post links to articles with headlines that seems to show some sort of EV deficiency - without actually reading the article.............

But what could possibly be their motive, as they claim to never want to buy such cars or use such driver assistance systems?

In this specific case perhaps it’s deep concern for the safety of others: the Atto 3 driver, other drivers and other road users.

But as Trevor would say, “No, that’s not right”.

 

[SmartAmg]

You do get the feeling, at times, that people are quick to post links to articles with headlines that seems to show some sort of EV deficiency - without actually reading the article.............

Or just to Shit Stir, about something they know nowt about. And supposedly have no interest in.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Tomorrow I'm delivering a very near 200,000 mile Tesla S from Chichester to Dobwalls in Cornwall.....google says that's 202 miles. I'll let you know how that goes. Tbh I'm more worried about similar miles Focus folding roof jobbie I'm coming back in!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Tomorrow I'm delivering a very near 200,000 mile Tesla S from Chichester to Dobwalls in Cornwall.....google says that's 202 miles. I'll let you know how that goes. Tbh I'm more worried about similar miles Focus folding roof jobbie I'm coming back in!

That would be interesting. There are some seriously leggy Teslas around.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Most seem to have 85 to 90 percent of their battery capacity for there whole life according to the web.....so as long as they remember to charge it for me (not a dead cert bearing in mind how many times cars have had no fuel!) Id like to think I wont be needing to stop anywhere to charge for just 200 miles.

 

[ChipChop]

I’m cool with it. Euro NCAP’s core observation relates to a very specific and very very unlikely (but possible) scenario that the driver is completely unresponsive, and does not react to warnings.

Euro NCAP reported that the Atto 3 doesn’t steer until the vehicle reaches a safe stop - it will slow down to a stop, but not steer to a potentially safe location. BYD never claimed that it did BTW.

The Atto 3 Adaptive Cruise Control is designed to follow the car in front, and disengages when the driver is determined to be unresponsive as it initiates the stop procedure (and so can’t follow).

The driver is safer than driving a car without any driver assistance systems, or even driving the same Atto 3 without the driver choosing to activate the Adaptive Cruise Control.

It’s not as safe as having ACC enabled in a car which can temporarily steer to a potentially safe location though. I wonder how many miles are driven with ACC on and off?

I wonder why EURO NCAP reported in 2024 when they performed tests in 2022?

..."the system effectively switches off steering support after a prolonged period of inactivity whilst maintaining speed control" earned the BYD Atto 3 Euro NCAP's worst ever driver assistance score. Appears you would not have marked this car down for the observed driver assistance issue. Low probability appears to be a factor in your reasoning. Unlikely any professional body assessing car safety would consider that point relevant.

I agree it is odd euro NCAP appear to have delayed releasing their findings for 2 years. Possibly related to BYD's small european market presence prior to this year?

 

[ChipChop]

That would be interesting. There are some seriously leggy Teslas around.

Are there? How many are triggers broom. On their 3rd £13,000+ battery pack etc.

 

[ALFAitalia]

The vast majority NEVER have a battery replaced according to the info I can find......many are rep driven and do more miles than the Enterprise!!....the one Im driving tomorrow must have been a company car to rack up those miles....my neighbour has a early one with a similar mileage that he bought with over 180k miles.....all original....except so far he's replaced two wheels for cracks (barely visible but leaking air).....something that they have not seen before apparently.....which is odd.

 

[markjay]

But what could possibly be their motive, as they claim to never want to buy such cars or use such driver assistance systems?

On a serious note, I believe that the so-called 'EV-bashers' are worried that the ecosystem for ICE cars is becoming increasingly hostile.

They want to hang-on to their ICE cars for as long as possible, but are concerned that it will become gradually more expensive for them to do so (for a variety of reasons).

In essence, it is no different to those who post lengthy pseudo-scientific arguments as to why NOx is not a problem, and when you 'scratch the surface' you discover that - by complete coincidence - they 'happen' to be driving for an old non-ULEZ-compliant Diesel van, and want to avoid having to shell-out for a newer EU6 one. Etc.

 

[ALFAitalia]

To be fair.....as much as I never want an EV.....but am far from an EV basher and have no problem with them (driver involvement aside), I also worry about those things......being forced into an EV because they make it to difficult or too expensive for average income types like me to keep running ICE. TBH as things stand and with the projected 75% of all registered UK cars on the road still being ICE by 2030 I don't really see it happening....but it depends on the green pressure and which idiots we have in power at the time I guess.

 

[ChipChop]

The vast majority NEVER have a battery replaced according to the info I can find......many are rep driven and do more miles than the Enterprise!!....the one Im driving tomorrow must have been a company car to rack up those miles....my neighbour has a early one with a similar mileage that he bought with over 180k miles.....all original....except so far he's replaced two wheels for cracks (barely visible but leaking air).....something that they have not seen before apparently.....which is odd.

Plenty of Model S's ads on autotrader with replacement HV batteries and drive motors stated in the description.

 

[ALFAitalia]

There are 194 S models on AT at the moment....most of which don't claim a new battery having been fitted.....and they have sold over 200,000 of them in the UK. I'm not statistician..........but Id say that's hardly a representative sample.

 

[ChipChop]

On a serious note, I believe that the so-called 'EV-bashers' are worried that the ecosystem for ICE cars is becoming increasingly hostile.

They want to hang-on to their ICE cars for as long as possible, but are concerned that it will become gradually more expensive for them to do so (for a variety of reasons).

In essence, it is no different to those who post lengthy pseudo-scientific arguments as to why NOx is not a problem, and when you 'scratch the surface' you discover that - by complete coincidence - they 'happen' to be driving for an old non-ULEZ-compliant Diesel van, and want to avoid having to shell-out for a newer EU6 one. Etc.

The ecosystem for all vehicles is becoming increasingly hostile thanks to the never ending march of the Euro emissions standards. Euro 7 regulations, to be introduced in around 6 months time, includes requirements for tyre abrasion, brake particle emissions and battery durability. How long before early EV's start to be legislated off the road thanks to these regulations?

 

[markjay]

The ecosystem for all vehicles is becoming increasingly hostile thanks to the never ending march of the Euro emissions standards. Euro 7 regulations, to be introduced in around 6 months time, includes requirements for tyre abrasion, brake particle emissions and battery durability. How long before early EV's start to be legislated off the road thanks to these regulations?

What's the solution, though - keep on polluting the air we breathe?

 

[Dryce]

What's the solution, though - keep on polluting the air we breathe?

A bit less dogma might be a good start.

I think a smarter way to move people to electric would have been to push incentives on small BEVs and also on PHEVs.

And we have crazy situations where you get government worrying about railway emissions of diesels in remote unpopulated areas - or ferries out on unpopulated firths and estuaries.

And meanwhile London frets about cars in the suburbs while making sure that the ever growing city has very poor road infrastructure and suburban congestion.

 

[BTB 500]

There are 194 S models on AT at the moment....most of which don't claim a new battery having been fitted.....and they have sold over 200,000 of them in the UK. I'm not statistician..........but Id say that's hardly a representative sample.

I'm sure Tesla haven't sold anything like that number of Model S in the UK. Under 10.5k ever taxed or SORNed here, according to HowManyLeft:



Many more Mercedes S Class (perhaps a premium ICE equivalent - similar price I think?) around - wonder how many of those have needed a new engine?

 

[ALFAitalia]

You could be right.....200K was the answer I got asking Google!!

"Tesla has sold over 200,000 Model S cars in the UK. The Model S is a full-size luxury car with a liftback body style and dual motor, all-wheel drive layout. The first Model S deliveries in the UK began in 2014."

 

[Pontoneer]

And they didn't stop their R&D in 1970, either....

Mercedes-Benz were safer cars than most back in the day, but what they invented (ABS, together with Bosch) first became commonplace (Ford Granada/Scorpio), then mandatory (for all new cars sold).

From the overall safety perspective, personally, I'd rather be in any modern car, than in any car (Mercedes or otherwise) equipped with 30 years old active safety systems. Personal preference, backed by both science and common sense.

They actually had Ponton and Fintail series cars running with prototype mechanical anti lock brakes ( based on weights within the wheel hubs which flew outwards with centrifugal force , thus detecting a stopping of rotation when a wheel locked , to trigger pulsing of the brakes ) , but it was never considered reliable enough for production until the Bosch/M-B system was released first as an option on the W116 450SEL 6.9

Dunlop had their Maxarret system , developed for aircraft in the 1960s , which was used by Jensen on the FF , before Mercedes introduced ABS . There was an Interceptor at the Scottish Police College , but sadly I never got to drive it , one of my friends did , and I remember him spinning it spectacularly on a fast run down the runway of Macrahanish airfield !

I also recall that Dr Herbert Ochs , past chairman of the Mercedes-Benz Club , and who lived in that part of Scotland , also ran an Interceptor , which he used for regular trips to Germany , but he replaced it with a 450SEL 6.9 because of reliability issues with the Jensen .

I never met the man , now sadly deceased .

 

[190]

On a serious note, I believe that the so-called 'EV-bashers' are worried that the ecosystem for ICE cars is becoming increasingly hostile.

They want to hang-on to their ICE cars for as long as possible, but are concerned that it will become gradually more expensive for them to do so (for a variety of reasons).

I don't think they need to worry as by 2030 an EV will be a more attractive proposition than an ICE. I've lost count of the number of articles I've read on battery developments in the pipeline promising greatly improved range and faster charging. If only a few of them come to fruition an EV will no longer be a concern on price or range. If you are a typical 5 year old used car buyer in the market now then while a used EV can be bought cheaply enough already, they tend to have poor range. When I can get a used EV with minimum 200 mile range in the worst conditions of winter driving and some serious hilly terrain and all for the same price as an ICE then I'll take the plunge.

Solid state batteries are only the start, there are plenty more developments in the pipeline that will make an EV even better.

Hyundai to take on Honda, CATL in race for all-solid-state battery

 

[BTB 500]

You could be right.....200K was the answer I got asking Google!!

"Tesla has sold over 200,000 Model S cars in the UK. The Model S is a full-size luxury car with a liftback body style and dual motor, all-wheel drive layout. The first Model S deliveries in the UK began in 2014."

Yep looks like Tesla claimed a total of 200k cars sold in the UK, rather than 200k Model S:

Ubiquity ahoy: Tesla sells its 200,000th car in the UK

UK buyers can't seem to get enough of Tesla. The firm has pulverised our sales charts – now, 1 in 5 electric cars on UK roads are Teslas. CAR magazine explains why.

www.carmagazine.co.uk