ChipChop
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Market demand and govt incentives.
The EV fact thread
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Tesla were actually up front about it. Nissan were sneaky buggers, they never actually reduced the price to the retail customer. When I went to the Nissan Dealer they had 3 Leafs in the swanky showroom at the full retail price of 32k with the printouts showing the PCP rates and laughable balloon payment. I had to ask about the supposedly "Ex Demo" cars with zero miles for 16.5k. They were hidden round the back with no prices on.
So I know Nissan are a business but what they did just smacks of bad form to me.
ChipChop
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Savvy buyers like yourself get the good deal. Always been the way with car dealers no?
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Government incentives were certainly a factor in why Sunderland and why the UK. Wasn’t the primary driver to build factories in Europe to mitigate the impact of import tariffs on cars manufactured in Japan, to protect the European car manufacturing industry?
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@ChipChop
Aye,
30 seconds on Autotrader....... Not a lot of sympathy for people who can't do research.
I just think if Nissan are going to pi££ over their existing customers they should have just dropped the RRP, blamed it on being an "outgoing model" and not slipped it in through the back door.
Aye,
30 seconds on Autotrader....... Not a lot of sympathy for people who can't do research.
I just think if Nissan are going to pi££ over their existing customers they should have just dropped the RRP, blamed it on being an "outgoing model" and not slipped it in through the back door.
MikeInWimbledon
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Umm, "Bad form" in exactly the same way that Ford, Vauxhall, Renault, and SAAB operated over the last 30-40 years?
MikeInWimbledon
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Light Entertainment:
Stumbled across this BMW Films Presents "The Calm" piece from two years ago.
If anyone saw the original BMW Films such as "Star" (directed by Guy Ritchie with Madonna & Clive Owen) a couple of decades ago,
they'll see how much EV's have changed the game, while other things remain the same
(Please don't try this with your Mercedes EQS )
Stumbled across this BMW Films Presents "The Calm" piece from two years ago.
If anyone saw the original BMW Films such as "Star" (directed by Guy Ritchie with Madonna & Clive Owen) a couple of decades ago,
they'll see how much EV's have changed the game, while other things remain the same
(Please don't try this with your Mercedes EQS )
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Quite possibly
But as I've never had a new car before it's the first time I've seen it up close. Dunno perhaps I'm a big wuss........
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I've been reading more about BEV vs Fuel Cell technology (Hydrogen).
Apparently, with BEV, we generate electricity, run it over long wires to a network of chargers, then store it in the car's battery in chemical form. The battery then releases electricity which is converted mostly to kinetic energy, and some to heat.
With Fuel Cell, we generate electricity, run it over long wires to factories where the electricity is used to produce Hydrogen, we then cool and pressurise the Hydrogen, transport it via road haulage to a network of Hydrogen filling stations, where cars then come and fill up their own Hydrogen tanks. The Hydrogen is then used to generate electricity which, in a similar way to BEV, is converted mostly to kinetic energy and some to heat.
However, it seems that it's difficult to calculate and compare the efficiency betwen these two processes. There are just too many variables to consider. How far do you go? Do you take into account the energy consumption footprint of building and maintaining pylons and chargers? Or of the road haulage and Hydrogen filling stations? E.g., how many more tanker lorries will need to be built in order to transport the Hydrogen, and what is the footprint of their life cycle? The list is long.
Then, there's 'the future' assumptions. Hydrogen may seem 'cleaner' if we produce it only from renewable energy sources. But can we? And BEV seems like a better option is we can develop small, lightweight, high-capacity batteries, that do no require precious metals. But can we?
Etc.
The obvious advantage that both BEV and Fuel Cells have over ICE, is that the cars do not produce harmful emissions, which is important for cars driven in urban settings (which is most of them).
But other than that.... which one is better?
Apparently, with BEV, we generate electricity, run it over long wires to a network of chargers, then store it in the car's battery in chemical form. The battery then releases electricity which is converted mostly to kinetic energy, and some to heat.
With Fuel Cell, we generate electricity, run it over long wires to factories where the electricity is used to produce Hydrogen, we then cool and pressurise the Hydrogen, transport it via road haulage to a network of Hydrogen filling stations, where cars then come and fill up their own Hydrogen tanks. The Hydrogen is then used to generate electricity which, in a similar way to BEV, is converted mostly to kinetic energy and some to heat.
However, it seems that it's difficult to calculate and compare the efficiency betwen these two processes. There are just too many variables to consider. How far do you go? Do you take into account the energy consumption footprint of building and maintaining pylons and chargers? Or of the road haulage and Hydrogen filling stations? E.g., how many more tanker lorries will need to be built in order to transport the Hydrogen, and what is the footprint of their life cycle? The list is long.
Then, there's 'the future' assumptions. Hydrogen may seem 'cleaner' if we produce it only from renewable energy sources. But can we? And BEV seems like a better option is we can develop small, lightweight, high-capacity batteries, that do no require precious metals. But can we?
Etc.
The obvious advantage that both BEV and Fuel Cells have over ICE, is that the cars do not produce harmful emissions, which is important for cars driven in urban settings (which is most of them).
But other than that.... which one is better?
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That's great, and very impressive, but they are not discussing efficiency? I.e., how much energy per-mile was required to produce, transport, and store the Hydrogen, compared to Tesla's EV trucks? We don't know.
(And, BTW, describing trucks powered by Fuel Cell technology as "clean-burning haulers" is ignorant in the extreme
)
When we have compared EV vs ICE we have included maintenance costs as an advantage for the EV due to simplicity. What are the maintenance costs for hydrogen powered car vs an EV?
Fundamentally a fuel cell vehicle is an EV with the added complexity of a fuel cell as I imagine they must have a battery to buffer the output of the fuel cell. Hydrogen is stored at very high pressure in a pressure vessel which will be subject to specialist scrutiny and may need to be replaced at intervals. I don't know about the fuel cell but I would think they are also subject to specialist inspection. Gut feel suggests that the added complexity and specialist nature of the fuel cell vehicle must make it more expensive to maintain than an EV.
Edit:
I remembered something about Hydrogen buses so here's one answer to your question.
Hydrogen buses cost 41% more over their lifetime than battery-electric
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I hope I don’t get dealt this one. I love driving it in real life. It it’s rubbish in a game of Top Trumps!This thread is a bit like a game of ‘Top Trumps’
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This one is a bit closer to your cup of tea @Will more relevant to this wonderful forum and a much better Top Trumps card to boot.
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85mph+ all day long towing the caravan in that bad boy in winter and the passengers don’t even need to get out for a coffee on a four hour run such is the immense refuelling speed
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"At least one-fifth of all European sales by most car companies must be EVs to avoid heavy fines but only 13% of vehicles sold in the region during the first 11 months of 2024 were electric, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association."
It's a buyers' market.....
From what I've seen there aren't any significant extra maintenance costs compared to a modern BEV. The tanks are certified for the life of the vehicle (they are typically carbon, which doesn't corrode of course) and I don't believe there's any 'servicing' to be done on the fuel cell. The higher running costs quoted for fuel cell buses are based on the cost of fuelling, I believe.
85mph+ all day long towing the caravan in that bad boy in winter and the passengers don’t even need to get out for a coffee on a four hour run such is the immense refuelling speed
Unlike the nice new BEV buses in Glagow then
Freezing weather disrupts Scottish city's electric buses leaving commuters stranded
THE freezing weather last week disrupted Glasgow's electric buses, causing their batteries to drain faster than usual, and leaving people…
www.thenational.scot
Bellow
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Pretty sure they require recertification every three years. How they are tested for that I don't know but having been involved in NDT none of it is easy or cheap.
