The EV fact thread

[BTB 500]

Yes, yes, there's the occasional unexpected long journey... but my point is that there's good reason why we should absolutely have a decent offering of small battery EVs. Firstly, these EVs are cheaper, then, they are lighter, and last, they consume less of these precious materials that people often mention.

Agree 100%. Short range use (relying solely on home charging) is probably the best use case for EVs.

There's absolutely no reason why people should be forced into buying expensive EVs with large batteries that they do not need, due to lack of supply of cars with smaller batteries.

Is there any danger of that happening? Seems to me that there are a whole bunch of small/cheap EVs on the way?

 

[markjay]

Agree 100%. Short range use (relying solely on home charging) is probably the best use case for EVs.



Is there any danger of that happening? Seems to me that there are a whole bunch of small/cheap EVs on the way?

Hopefully, this was part of the initial slow uptake issue, with manufacturers competing to make the best and most sophisticated EV while neglecting the bottom end of the market.

 

[Will]

Equally though there are many brand new EVs that don't have a very respectable range on a long run at higher speeds (particularly in colder temperatures). And plenty of older generation EVs that had less range to start with (not everyone drives a brand new car). Sorted by 'typical real world range' here (motorway range would in all cases be less, even in mild weather):

EV Database

Range of full electric vehicles cheatsheet. Quick reference for all plug-in hybrid en full electric cars.

ev-database.org

Yes agreed. I have no problem with any of that - I just object to general statements that long trips in EVs now are just as convenient as in an ICE.




Sadly for us that's some way off - the latest e-Vito (90 kWh battery) will only do around 150 miles on the motorway (obviously a lot less towing a caravan - yes this is a standing joke, but it's something we actually need to do in the summer months). They are also limited to 110 kW charging, so a 10-80% top up takes a minimum of 40 minutes. And price - starting at about £85k for a similar spec. to what we have now (before options) ...

So for now diesel is the only choice, although the 2.5 litre petrol hybrid from VW and Ford is interesting (but possibly not a great idea for long term ownership due to the complexity).

I think I must be missing your point - as you’re speaking about a very niche requirement (a Vito to carry dogs on a 400 mile round trip with no charging facilities and not wishing to stop at all), then referring to cars with much lower ranges - which obviously no one would buy for such kind of use. Sure, your specific niche requirement doesn’t lend itself to be a prime candidate for a swap to an EV powered Vito-sized vehicle. But for the vast majority of the population an EV is an easy transition to make and very little inconvenience. As said already, ranges of EV models are increasing and charging infrastructure constantly improving so the gap will be closing quite quickly anyway.

Cars and other vehicles come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. You buy the correct one for your needs. No one would buy an EV with a low range if they needed to use it regularly for long motorway trips - in the same way as you wouldn’t choose a smart car or something for that sort of use.

In terms of range, my little B250e will be amongst the lowest available - but I knew that and I didn’t buy it for long motorway journeys. I have only charged it publicly once (for free, at MB World!). I think the longest motorway type journey I’ve used it for was about 70ish miles - and it was fine.

In the same sense, I wouldn’t use my SL or the 911 for a family holiday (due to seating capacity and luggage space - not range).

Nor would I usually take the GL out for a weekend/evening trip out on my own.

Sure - we’ve covered the one car/multiple car thing before - but there’s plenty of reasonable sized EVs already with respectable ranges and adequate charging rates for longer journeys should charging en-route be required.

Out of interest Bill - just a curiosity, have you driven any/many EVs? And if you didn’t live outside of a city and didn’t need to transport the dogs on long journeys can you honestly say that you wouldn’t be able to use one easily?

 

[clk320x]

OK, thanks.




So when fully utilised those would only be delivering 75 kW to each car - that wouldn't require much of a grid connection.




From Tesla's UK support page:

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/charging/supercharger

"Capable of delivering peak charge rates up to 250kW" suggests to me that the peak charge rate can drop below 250 kW ... they're not guaranteeing it.




From a quick Google, it appears Megapack units are only deployed at Supercharger sites with solar canopies - are there many (any?) of those in the UK??



View attachment 166652

Tesla Megapack - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Powerpacks only seem to hold around 200 kWh so you'd need a fair few of those at a site to make much difference?




40 stalls all delivering 250 kW would require a 10 million watt supply from the grid. Maybe that's no problem but it seems an awful lot of power to one charging site ... some UK power plants produce less than that!

Open Infrastructure Map

List of power plants in the United Kingdom from OpenStreetMap

openinframap.org

I honestly lost interest in this discussion, but from experience I’ve always got the max kW my car can draw at its current SOC whenever I’ve supercharged bar V2 sites when power sharing. I think practically there’s no real reason to overthink these things, although I know on this forum we love to do just that.

 

[BTB 500]

I think I must be missing your point - as you’re speaking about a very niche requirement (a Vito to carry dogs on a 400 mile round trip with no charging facilities and not wishing to stop at all), then referring to cars with much lower ranges - which obviously no one would buy for such kind of use. Sure, your specific niche requirement doesn’t lend itself to be a prime candidate for a swap to an EV powered Vito-sized vehicle. But for the vast majority of the population an EV is an easy transition to make and very little inconvenience. As said already, ranges of EV models are increasing and charging infrastructure constantly improving so the gap will be closing quite quickly anyway.

Cars and other vehicles come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. You buy the correct one for your needs. No one would buy an EV with a low range if they needed to use it regularly for long motorway trips - in the same way as you wouldn’t choose a smart car or something for that sort of use.

In terms of range, my little B250e will be amongst the lowest available - but I knew that and I didn’t buy it for long motorway journeys. I have only charged it publicly once (for free, at MB World!). I think the longest motorway type journey I’ve used it for was about 70ish miles - and it was fine.

In the same sense, I wouldn’t use my SL or the 911 for a family holiday (due to seating capacity and luggage space - not range).

Nor would I usually take the GL out for a weekend/evening trip out on my own.

Sure - we’ve covered the one car/multiple car thing before - but there’s plenty of reasonable sized EVs already with respectable ranges and adequate charging rates for longer journeys should charging en-route be required.

Out of interest Bill - just a curiosity, have you driven any/many EVs? And if you didn’t live outside of a city and didn’t need to transport the dogs on long journeys can you honestly say that you wouldn’t be able to use one easily?

My point was just that there are actually quite a few new/current EVs with limited 'long trip' ranges, which would be less convenient than an ICE of equivalent age/value for a lot of people if they had one as their sole family car. You and I (and many others in this thread) are lucky enough to be able to have a small 'fleet' of vehicles, but that's not representative of the general population.

I've not driven an EV yet. I'm sure it would be absolutely fine though.

I'd certainly be able to use an EV for local trips - it would be great even where we are now (particularly as we have solar power). But it would make no sense financially, and there are other discretionary/luxury things I'd rather spend the money on at the moment. I've mentioned it many times but my eyes have been opened by the little Citroen C1 we got recently for my son. It costs peanuts to insure, tax and run and is fun to drive. My wife and son have even used it to go to some dog shows and training events with a couple of our dogs in the back (and him driving, on his provisional licence). It's sitting there on the drive so I routinely use it now for nipping to the shops (a minimum round trip of about 14 miles) rather than getting the C300 out as I would have done before. But would I replace it with something similar when my son goes to university? No, because it would be far cheaper to just use a little fuel in the C Class (or the Vito, or even the SL if the weather is nice ).

 

[markjay]

...In terms of range, my little B250e will be amongst the lowest available - but I knew that and I didn’t buy it for long motorway journeys. I have only charged it publicly once (for free, at MB World!). I think the longest motorway type journey I’ve used it for was about 70ish miles - and it was fine.

In the same sense, I wouldn’t use my SL or the 911 for a family holiday (due to seating capacity and luggage space - not range).

Nor would I usually take the GL out for a weekend/evening trip out on my own....

 

[clk320x]

My point was just that there are actually quite a few new/current EVs with limited 'long trip' ranges, which would be less convenient than an ICE of equivalent age/value for a lot of people if they had one as their sole family car.

I don’t think anyone has really disagreed with that. A typical ‘small battery’ city EV is not as convenient to use for a 400 mile trip compared to a ‘city ICE’ car.

I think the point is that it CAN be used if needed, with a relatively small duration stop en-route, the transition to EV is a necessity in future and if it means a slight inconvenience on those longer journeys for those with short range models then I suppose that’s a necessary evil.

 

[Will]

My point was just that there are actually quite a few new/current EVs with limited 'long trip' ranges, which would be less convenient than an ICE of equivalent age/value for a lot of people if they had one as their sole family car. You and I (and many others in this thread) are lucky enough to be able to have a small 'fleet' of vehicles, but that's not representative of the general population.

I've not driven an EV yet. I'm sure it would be absolutely fine though.

I'd certainly be able to use an EV for local trips - it would be great even where we are now (particularly as we have solar power). But it would make no sense financially, and there are other discretionary/luxury things I'd rather spend the money on at the moment. I've mentioned it many times but my eyes have been opened by the little Citroen C1 we got recently for my son. It costs peanuts to insure, tax and run and is fun to drive. My wife and son have even used it to go to some dog shows and training events with a couple of our dogs in the back (and him driving, on his provisional licence). It's sitting there on the drive so I routinely use it now for nipping to the shops (a minimum round trip of about 14 miles) rather than getting the C300 out as I would have done before. But would I replace it with something similar when my son goes to university? No, because it would be far cheaper to just use a little fuel in the C Class (or the Vito, or even the SL if the weather is nice ).

Understand most of what you’re saying - but the logic that most people cannot have a small fleet of vehicles - equally you have to appreciate that your example of needing to transport dogs in a Vito sized vehicle 400 miles without charging, is definitely not representative of the general population either.

Clearly if you or I were to only have one car it wouldn’t be something that is a 2+2, or something EV with a 100 mile range or whatever. And I suspect the same would apply to the general population unless they had no kids or lived in a city. In which case they might run around in an MX-5, smart car, or a compact city EV. You wouldn’t choose a car that seats 7 just in case you need to take a load of people to an event one day a year, or for the odd occasion that you need to collect something large (hire a van instead).

That’s my logic anyway - it seems to me as though your concern over limited range and the inconvenience of charging is unfounded for the vast majority of users - where as in practice there are literally hundreds of thousands of these cars in use day in, day out. Those who regularly do longer journeys choose something like a Tesla with 300+ mile range, those who live in and around the city might choose something like a Leaf, e-Golf etc.

The reason I ask about your exposure to having driven or used an EV is that vast majority of the negativity/scepticism I hear about EVs is from people who don’t own one, and almost everyone I do know or have known who has one is genuinely impressed. It’s unusual to have such a strong view on something that you’ve never tried before - and I’m not singling you out, because it seems quite commonplace.

 

[Will]

Combined value used, probably less than an average new C-class or something…

 

[Connoisseur]

Mercedes EV making big strides into the HGV market, but they’ll never catch on……

Amazon Orders Over 200 Electric Trucks - Bridge Classic Cars

Amazon has placed its largest-ever order for electric heavy goods vehicles (eHGVs), buying over 200 Mercedes-Benz eActros 600 trucks. This is the biggest single order of electric trucks in the history of Mercedes-Benz Trucks and forms part of Amazon’s aim to achieve net-zero carbon emissions by...

bridgeclassiccars.co.uk

 

[Fastcar155]

Noticed today on YouTube that The Macmaster has found a battery charge that will offer extended range to battery cars ( I think )

 

[Dryce]

Mercedes EV making big strides into the HGV market, but they’ll never catch on……

It's pretty obvious that it's the companies that do trunking that can make any new technology work.

The sad aspect is that it's these sorts of customers who have regular flows of freight between fixed points would also - in principle - make good use of rail.

This is why we should be looking at our trunk road network and thinking about electrification and freight. IMO the money spent on HS2 could be more productively used if it was targeted at road freight - improving capacity and emissions.

 

[ChipChop]

Mercedes EV making big strides into the HGV market, but they’ll never catch on……

Amazon Orders Over 200 Electric Trucks - Bridge Classic Cars

Amazon has placed its largest-ever order for electric heavy goods vehicles (eHGVs), buying over 200 Mercedes-Benz eActros 600 trucks. This is the biggest single order of electric trucks in the history of Mercedes-Benz Trucks and forms part of Amazon’s aim to achieve net-zero carbon emissions by...

bridgeclassiccars.co.uk

Nice AI generated article.

 

[clk320x]

Nice AI generated article.

This one better?

Amazon places its largest-ever order of electric heavy trucks

The zero-exhaust emission vehicles, from Mercedes-Benz Trucks, are expected to transport more than 350 million packages every year.

www.aboutamazon.eu

“Amazon will install 360kW electric charging points at key sites, capable of charging the battery of the 40-tonne trucks from 20 to 80 percent in just over an hour; and will work with stakeholders to support the installation of external charging points in suitable locations to enable longer journeys.”

Excellent news…

 

[ChipChop]

This one better?

Amazon places its largest-ever order of electric heavy trucks

The zero-exhaust emission vehicles, from Mercedes-Benz Trucks, are expected to transport more than 350 million packages every year.

www.aboutamazon.eu

“Amazon will install 360kW electric charging points at key sites, capable of charging the battery of the 40-tonne trucks from 20 to 80 percent in just over an hour; and will work with stakeholders to support the installation of external charging points in suitable locations to enable longer journeys.”

Excellent news…

Thanks.

Most of Amazons horrendous carbon footprint comes from indirect sources not its fossil fuel emissions.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Hopefully, this was part of the initial slow uptake issue, with manufacturers competing to make the best and most sophisticated EV while neglecting the bottom end of the market.

What’s been slow about the uptake of EV’s ?

A decade ago none of us thought that 20% of new UK registrations would be EV by now.

But then we didn’t expect wars in Ukraine or the Middle East either.

 

[Steveml63]

I wonder if this thread will still be so active in about 5 years time when more than 80% of new cars sold are EV’s, the likes of Nissan, GM, VW & Toyota have gone bust and those “new fangled” EVs are often driving around unaided by the driver?

 

[markjay]

Are you suggesting that the rant will be over once the cause for the rant is no longer there?

Hmmmm.... what a novel idea