The EV fact thread

[markjay]

Exactly my point. The government's driving EV's into the hands of private buyers via companies and business discounts.

So I'll be able to pick up your lovely Ioniq 5 shortly for less than £20k, after the tax man and your company accounts have taken the hit on that initial depreciation. Works for me.

(Although I did also like the six year old CL500 that I bought for 80% less than list price, thanks to the same company car / VAT / Corporation tax fandango, "back in the day.")

Agreed. All the cars I bought privately so far were ex-lease car. Great value.

 

[ChipChop]

In Norway they're buying Teslas like their going out of fashion.

Can you even buy a new petrol or diesel car in Norway in 2025?

 

[markjay]

Can you even buy a new petrol or diesel car in Norway in 2025?

I have no idea... I imagine you could if you really wanted one.

 

[SpikyMikey]

A bad start to the year for this motorist. Did the solenoid that controls the fart noise overheat i wonder?

View attachment 167001

Police confirm 'no criminality' after Tesla car fire in Kilmarnock

A black Tesla was found on alight outside the Beijing Banquet just off Queen's Drive on Saturday evening.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

Maybe the spicy chilli chicken at the Bejing Banquet was a bit robust...

 

[SpikyMikey]

Can you even buy a new petrol or diesel car in Norway in 2025?

Yep, you can.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

ZEV mandate target was 22%, so they needed to sell almost 47,000 more. I think it took a fair few special deals etc. towards the end plus pre-registering to get where they did.

That’s even closer than I thought then, 20% versus 22% is pretty good all things considered. I bet you’re right about the deals too, although that has always been common practice, long before ZEV targets were even a thing.

 

[ChipChop]

Yep, you can.

Thanks. I asked a Norwegian and they said yes too, but the selection is small as most importers only take in EVs or hybrids now and taxes on petrol and diesel cars are high so will be expensive.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

ZEV mandate target was 22%, so they needed to sell almost 47,000 more. I think it took a fair few special deals etc. towards the end plus pre-registering to get where they did.
Target for vans was 10%, so they were nearly 15,000 short there.

Horse trading as usual. I hear rumours that "deals were done" to count future (2025) sales in the 2024 numbers in both the EU and in UK. I don't have details yet. Info will leak.

Small producers aren't included in the mandate: Caterham and Morgan don't have their EV's yet.... (And may never)

And then some firms have proudly said that they'll just pay the fines. Ferrari being the most famous example. In other words, they've upped their prices and stopped selling "cheaper" versions to make sure that they're not out of pocket.

How did the big manufacturers hit their numbers? By not selling cheap ICE's, fiddling lead-times, and by discounting EV's and pre-registering EV's in the second half of 2024, as we always knew they would.

If there's anything we know about salespeople, it's that they'll hit their targets, by hook or by crook, by the end of the reporting period. It's what they do.

 

[ALFAitalia]

So...
EVs are too expensive...
.....and too cheap.
Charging points are too busy...
.....yet too under used to be viable.
They take too long to charge....
.....yet most NEVER charge as they are fully charged when they leave the house.
The grid won't be able to cope with demand...
.....but the grid says there would be more than enough power if we all switched to EVs tomorrow.
The wiring in your street won't cope....
....yet only a small number will charge at and one time and a granny cable only pulls about the same as your kettle...and if someone suggested that a few extra kettles being used in your street would blow the system you would laugh.
It's too expensive to charge them.....
....yet at home it cost about 2 or 3 ppm on the right tariff compared to about 15 for my economical derv.

Glad we got that cleared up! I'll be on my way then!

 

[GrahamT]

Apparently, Elon is upset that folks have started calling Teslas swasticars.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Apparently, Elon is upset that folks have started calling Teslas swasticars.

Propaganda is a natural part of any war.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

"However, the rules also contain major loopholes – described as “flexibilities” – that allow carmakers to earn credits by reducing the emissions of the fossil fuel cars they sell, as well as “borrowing” credits from future years."

"The analysis suggested that BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Volvo’s Chinese owner Geely were able to meet the 2024 mandate through battery car sales alone, as did electric-only brands Tesla and BYD. Those companies will be able to sell credits to the highest bidder."

Note the heavy "borrowing" by Ford, Renault / Nissan / Mitsubishi and Suzuki.


Quote source:

All carmakers in UK to escape fines for missing electric car sales targets in 2024

Analysts say use of ‘flexibilities’ to avoid penalties shows that zero-emissions mandate does not need to be relaxed

www.theguardian.com

 

[markjay]

Apparently, Elon is upset that folks have started calling Teslas swasticars.

That's what happens when the world's richest man takes revenge on those who took his son away from him - it reverberated around the world. A bit like John Wick, but without the physical violence.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Just checked, around 90% of new cars in UK are bought with finance. I imagine that the remaining 10% are almost all private buyers.

Which doesn’t, of course, include all the pre-registered / management cars which have always been sold “used” at substantial discount.

“Finance” deals get an capital allowance tax break on brand new cars which isn’t available on a used vehicle.

AND, as we know, Western Manufacturers focussed on higher margin expensive EVs first while they came to terms with the tech, before moving down into mass market offerings, like the Dacia Spring, Renault 5 and so on.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I watched Harry’s Garage review of the new Renault 5 (EV) last night. The more I see and hear, the more I am impressed by that car. Harry seemed to like it too.

 

[SpikyMikey]

I watched Harry’s Garage review of the new Renault 5 (EV) last night. The more I see and hear, the more I am impressed by that car. Harry seemed to like it too.

I have to say when I saw the initial rendering I was impressed too. I'll have to find Harry's review.

 

[markjay]

Which doesn’t, of course, include all the pre-registered / management cars which have always been sold “used” at substantial discount.

“Finance” deals get an capital allowance tax break on brand new cars which isn’t available on a used vehicle.

AND, as we know, Western Manufacturers focussed on higher margin expensive EVs first while they came to terms with the tech, before moving down into mass market offerings, like the Dacia Spring, Renault 5 and so on.

I would assume that cars pre-registered (and later sold to private buyers) will show as 'sold without finance' and will therefore be included in the 10%.

 

[Mactech]

I watched Harry’s Garage review of the new Renault 5 (EV) last night. The more I see and hear, the more I am impressed by that car. Harry seemed to like it too.

Yes, good 'little' car. As others have said, probably a spiritual successor to the i3, but 10 years later and without the technological and EV centric focus.
Just can't see its advantage over the car I already have to use in the way Harry describes, as a 'daily'. I'd have to sort out the 'jiggly' ride too....
The genius of this is that it is just 'car' which doesn't shout EV!

 

[Bellow]

Have those accusing others of being change averse made any change in their own life to reduce their carbon footprint (other than buying an EV which until it is charged form 100% renewably sourced electricity doesn't contribute to CO2 reduction)? Changed diet? Changed to fly less or not at all? Changed anything it all? If you're going to talk the talk...

 

[Bellow]

Breezier today, but still 23% of generation is from gas. Noticeably, that site cannot distinguish between gas burned in combined cycle or open cycle. So the argument that when gas is burned for electricity generation it is at a greater efficiency than in ICE doesn't stack up when open cycle generation can only compete with - not exceed - ICE fuel efficiency.

Energy Dashboard - real time and historical GB electricity data, carbon emissions and UK generation sites mapping

Live and historical GB National Grid electricity data, showing generation, demand and carbon emissions and UK generation sites mapping with API subscription service.

www.energydashboard.co.uk

As usual, the first peak of the day is fortified by burning gas and some of that will be pre-heating EVs. The UK is somewhat short of gas storage, gas that is required to heat homes/businesses and generate electricity for the same. Now it has the additional pressure of pre-heating EVs - a perk previously scarcely available (and when it is, its use of petrol or diesel does not compete with either domestic/business use of gas). This makes a mockery of the intention of EVs to reduce CO2 emissions while managing to worsen an already difficult situation (lack of gas storage). This desire to pre-heat also knocks a hole in the V2G argument. At precisely the point the grid is under pressure instead of EVs being on hand to donate to the grid, they will be drawing from it for pre-heating and ramping up the need for gas to be burned.