The EV fact thread

[poormansporsche]

No... still 6 months to go. We'll see.

Don't leave it too long. My "Built and ready to Go (sitting in a field somewhere) Car" still took 3 months to be delivered.........

 

[markjay]

Don't leave it too long. My "Built and ready to Go (sitting in a field somewhere) Car" still took 3 months to be delivered.........

Understood. Having said that, I am OK with not having the company car for a while (if it came to that), there's a second car in our household that I can use.

 

[poormansporsche]

Understood. Having said that, I am OK with not having the company car for a while (if it came to that), there's a second car in our household that I can use.

Yep don't be rushed

When I leased my car, I was more than happy with the deal. Rang up the "Broker" went through all the details but fell at the final hurdle due to finding out that only Black and Grey cars were left. With me living in the Country, bramble scratches are a big problem and on a lease car in a dark colour it's a definite no no. The broker kept pushing me saying a deal as good as this will never be available again blah de blah. When he finally realised that I wasn't going to take it his tone changed and he said "Give me 36 hours and will make it worth your while" wink wink. It's was one day away from the end of the month. So at 9am on the first of the month he rang me up with a deal on a higher spec model, in the colour I wanted, for £5 a month less than the lower spec car

If I had my tin foil hat on I would be thinking he already knew about the better deal but was under orders to shift the lower spec cars first .......

 

[BTB 500]

Small producers aren't included in the mandate

Apparently this is yet to be decided/confirmed. Lister issued a statement about it yesterday:

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Apparently this is yet to be decided/confirmed. Lister issued a statement about it yesterday:

View attachment 167200

Thanks for confirming my statement that small producers are exempt.

But that, like all legislation, things may change in the future.

Although it seems unlikely for all the reasons the legislation existed in the first place.

 

[BTB 500]

Thanks for confirming my statement that small producers are exempt.

??

That confirms they have been exempt from other legislation in the past ... not that they are exempt from the 2024 ZEV mandate.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

??

That confirms they have been exempt from other legislation in the past ... not that they are exempt from the 2024 ZEV mandate.

It confirms that the legal position is currently that small manufacturers are exempt.

As they are on a number of elements of manufacturing regulations

Its fair to say that legislation may change. For example when nuclear powered cars become commonplace, and when drones are used to deliver commuters into cities.

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[philnewmerc]

You're right, of course, for a reason that you haven't considered.

Commercial charging is expensive only because of the initial set up / installation cost, and then the higher tax rate (ie 20% VAT. At heart, delivering energy to a charger is cheaper than shipping oil thousands of miles, refining it and then trucking it to underground tanks. Once set up, competition will force the providers to reduce their prices. (See the already empty charger stations around the country)

Two tier ownership costs for those without off street parking? Yes, my 27 year old daughter recognises this as she searches for a tiny 2 bed flat in Central London for £4,000 a month. But will the Government do anything for her to make her life easier? No, they already put extra taxes on parking and driving locally while taxing her income at highest rate.

Re that quote, it's half of all households that don't have access to off street parking. So she's one of them. As are the seven other households who live in the same four storey house. So it's a misleading stat. None of her eight households want to run a car in central London, it's not practical. Sadiq wants them to use buses, tubes and taxis.

Whereas my son owns in a terraced house with no access to off street parking, but his wife can charge at work, he could charge at mine, and he could just run a cable out to the car, like his neighbours, when he can park outside the house (probably just once a week but still), and they can both charge at the local supermarkets and at their sports club.

How busy are those motorway charger points this morning? Well here's Moto, down at Exeter: 36 out of 38 chargers are not being used.

Yeah I see. Was just suggesting that in say 5-10 years, will those who can charge overnight see their house prices go up relative to those without, or will the price of leccy become more expensive as the need (and supply) of cheap energy overnight diminishes. Afterall, electricity is cheap overnight because historically the power generation was still ongoing at night even though the power was not needed, hence encouragement to use it (via economy 7 etc). once we're mainly renewables (excellent idea) there won't be a supply of 'cheaper unwanted' electricity - so will the overnight charging phenomenon reduce? (Still will be convenient of course.)

But, if for whatever reason we do have a permanent disparity between those with uPVC porticoes and overnight charging, and those with stone cladding and no parking, then I reckon the Coronation Street residents will be looking for answers as to why they're being priced out of their cars... ergo hello Nigel.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Yeah I see. Was just suggesting that in say 5-10 years, will those who can charge overnight see their house prices go up relative to those without, or will the price of leccy become more expensive as the need (and supply) of cheap energy overnight diminishes. Afterall, electricity is cheap overnight because historically the power generation was still ongoing at night even though the power was not needed, hence encouragement to use it (via economy 7 etc). once we're mainly renewables (excellent idea) there won't be a supply of 'cheaper unwanted' electricity - so will the overnight charging phenomenon reduce? (Still will be convenient of course.)

But, if for whatever reason we do have a permanent disparity between those with uPVC porticoes and overnight charging, and those with stone cladding and no parking, then I reckon the Coronation Street residents will be looking for answers as to why they're being priced out of their cars... ergo hello Nigel.

Sorry, but wind turbines and nuclear work 24 hours. They don't have homes to go to. Daytime power is cheap because it's where the biggest demand is, and where the most expensive power source is pulled in: Gas. It's "work" that demands energy, not hours in bed.

My fag packet tells me that the average car does 8,000 a year, that's roughly 2,000KwH. or 100 hours connected to a 22kwh charger in a car park or supermarket, or 300 hours on home charger. Sounds a lot until you realise that cars spend 8000 hours a year parked.

Nigel and his colleagues passed the legislation over the last two decades to bring in EV's, with a deadline of 100% conversion by 2035. He didn't do a thing to stop it. He's done nothing to suggest that he wants to force people back into paying 20p a mile to drive, two or four times what they would pay to drive an EV.

And, of course, it's usually the folks in terraced houses who have buses and bikes to get to work locally anyway. Because their Labour Councils want to stop people driving cars in cities and towns.

 

[markjay]

Sorry, but wind turbines and nuclear work 24 hours.

Wind turbine can be feathered, which effectively switches them off (the blades stop rotating).

How easy or difficult it is to put the blades in and out of feathered mode, I don't know...

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Wind turbine can be feathered, which effectively switches them off (the blades stop rotating).
How easy or difficult it is to put the blades in and out of feathered mode, I don't know...

For sure, but no-one's going to switch off virtually free wind power overnight in favour of other more expensive sources. So the grid will have cheap power overnight to run the tiny amount of electricity to charge our EV's "off-peak." (As The Grid has always said)

Driving through France this month it's been interesting to see that all the wind turbines, and there are a lot of them, are now "on," whereas in the past decade, usually less than a half would be in operation. Presumably it's something to do with Ukraine, the energy shortage, and France's new found ability to export electricity to all its neighbours.

 

[Will]

I’m not massively familiar with Lister but don’t they mainly do conversions on Jaguar cars?

As Jaguar will no doubt be moving towards selling electric models they would need to adapt their business towards the future.

Times change - you can’t dig your heels in and just continue as you always have.

 

[BTB 500]

I’m not massively familiar with Lister but don’t they mainly do conversions on Jaguar cars?

They do, but they've also made their own cars (in low volumes) for a very long time. As per the statement they had a brand new model in the pipeline - it's the development of this that they've stopped until they know whether they'll be subject to the ZEV mandate or not. More info. here:

Lister Cars withdraws new model plans due to UK Government's emissions-exemption uncertainty - Magneto

Lister Cars had planned an all-carbon road car but uncertainty over UK regulations means the proposals have been canned.

www.magnetomagazine.com

Current models:

Available Lister Models | Lister Cars

Latest models from the Lister factory in Cambridge

www.lister.com

 

[markjay]

They do, but they've also made their own cars (in low volumes) for a very long time. As per the statement they had a brand new model in the pipeline - it's the development of this that they've stopped until they know whether they'll be subject to the ZEV mandate or not. More info. here:

Lister Cars withdraws new model plans due to UK Government's emissions-exemption uncertainty - Magneto

Lister Cars had planned an all-carbon road car but uncertainty over UK regulations means the proposals have been canned.

www.magnetomagazine.com

Current models:

Available Lister Models | Lister Cars

Latest models from the Lister factory in Cambridge

www.lister.com

Shouldn't their next car be electrically powered - it sounds a bit anachronistic, designing a brand new ICE car in 2025?

 

[BTB 500]

It confirms that the legal position is currently that small manufacturers are exempt.

They are only exempt till 2030 though. This is what the DoT said yesterday:

Manufacturers selling fewer than 1000 cars are exempt from the zero-emission vehicle and CO2 targets up to 2030 – as has always been the case. We want to support the sector through the transition to electric, as we continue to deliver our growth mission. We are therefore currently consulting on requirements between 2030 and 2035, including details for smaller manufacturers, and will confirm details in due course.

Lister understandably don't want to spend a quoted £3-£5 million developing a new model that they might only be able to sell for a couple of years.

 

[Bellow]

Shouldn't their next car be electrically powered - it sounds a bit anachronistic, designing a brand new ICE car in 2025?

No, it will sound like something people want to buy.
Try reading the article.

 

[BTB 500]

Shouldn't their next car be electrically powered - it sounds a bit anachronistic, designing a brand new ICE car in 2025?

Per the article I linked to:

Whittaker is not averse to electric propulsion – an EV Knobbly has been investigated – but the current vagueness about whether the exemption continues means picking a lane is challenging, especially in the light of poor EV supercar and hypercar sales. For example, in the light of battery supply issues Porsche is rumoured to be investigating hybrid options for the previous EV-only Boxster/Cayman replacement due this year, and even Mate Rimac – an EV hypercar pioneer – believes that the market for such cars simply isn’t there.

“If the Government mandates that all cars have to be purely electric, then by 2030 there will be a demand for electric supercars,” Rimac said. “But if the mandate is that small-volume manufacturers can continue to operate outside the [SVA/IVA rules] then we would make an ICE car – for anybody who really wants a performance car, the sound and thrill of it is what it’s all about. We can’t go forward and make an EV car if others are still allowed to sell petrol cars by 2030.”

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

No, it will sound like something people want to buy.
Try reading the article.

Exactly, which is why Ferrari and others are continuing to develop small volume ICE,

and firms like Toyota, Honda, VW and Stellantis are continuing to develop ICE vehicles to sell in the more than half of the world that doesn't have an ICE ban.

https://insideevs.com/news/667928/ferrari-not-going-all-in-on-evs-make-ice-cars-beyond-2035/

https://www.motor1.com/news/706930/toyota-developing-new-combustion-engines/

https://www.motor1.com/news/744814/honda-new-gas-engines/

https://uk.motor1.com/news/722598/volkswagen-invests-60billion-euros-combustion-engines/

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

They are only exempt till 2030 though. This is what the DoT said yesterday:



Lister understandably don't want to spend a quoted £3-£5 million developing a new model that they might only be able to sell for a couple of years.

It's good to see that the DoT have confirmed that there is no plan to ban small firms producing ICE post 2030. Simply that they are consulting on the whole issue of EV's and ICE's for the period of 2030-2035.

 

[SpikyMikey]

They do, but they've also made their own cars (in low volumes) for a very long time. As per the statement they had a brand new model in the pipeline - it's the development of this that they've stopped until they know whether they'll be subject to the ZEV mandate or not. More info. here:

Lister Cars withdraws new model plans due to UK Government's emissions-exemption uncertainty - Magneto

Lister Cars had planned an all-carbon road car but uncertainty over UK regulations means the proposals have been canned.

www.magnetomagazine.com

Current models:

Available Lister Models | Lister Cars

Latest models from the Lister factory in Cambridge

www.lister.com

Mercedes-Benz Unimog - Lister Classics