The EV fact thread

[BTB 500]

Regarding balancing cells - on our Tesla Model 3 Performance, it is recommended to run the car down to a few percent charge - then slow charge it to 100%.
After this - the cells automatically rebalance and the potential range at 100% charge goes up by about 5 to 10km compared to before this exercise.
I do this every 3 months or so - to try and keep the batteries in good health

My point was just that new cells fitted into an old pack (which Tesla don't do, AFAIK) are likely to have a significantly lower internal resistance than the others, which means they will lose less energy (as heat) during discharge and suffer from less voltage drop (sag). They will also have a higher usable capacity, so they'll be at a higher SOC after each use than the others ... i.e. out of balance. It's standard practice for a pack to consist of 'matched cells' with identical internal resistance and capacity (as near as possible). If you assemble a battery using cells from the same manufacturer and batch then assuming they have all passed QC you should be good. They will all age at much the same rate so imbalance should be minor and managed fairly easily.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Not at all. They will certainly fit a new starter motor (your example) rather than replacing the entire engine. That would only apply in the case of a catastrophic failure; exceptionally rare within the warranty period I would guess.




I believe the Moss Landing site in the US that went up in flames recently has had four storage battery fires in four years. So while it can certainly be done it may not be very advisable.

There's a difference between a 'recycled' (original, unmolested) battery pack and a 'repaired' one btw. If I had an older EV I would happily have the former fitted, but not the latter.

What do you think a recycled batter pack if not repaired and refurbished.

I’m glad you agree that ICEs are routinely fitted with repaired and reconditioned engines, gearboxes and starter motors, following mechanical failure. Not all R129 owners can afford brand new engines, gearboxes and starter motors when small parts inevitably fail in these complex, difficult to maintain, old fashioned vehicles.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I believe the Moss Landing site in the US that went up in flames recently has had four storage battery fires in four years. So while it can certainly be done it may not be very advisable.

Interesting insight. You should pass that on to the very large storage battery industry which has already established itself around the world. And all the national Electricity Grids

And then, of course there are those people risking their homes with solar panels and storage walls.

I’m sure they would love to hear your view.

 

[BTB 500]

What do you think a recycled batter pack if not repaired and refurbished.

It may be a completely original (used) pack from a car that's been written off for some other reason.

I’m glad you agree that ICEs are routinely fitted with repaired and reconditioned engines, gearboxes and starter motors, following mechanical failure. Not all R129 owners can afford brand new engines, gearboxes and starter motors when small parts inevitably fail in these complex, difficult to maintain, old fashioned vehicles.

I don't agree that major component replacement is 'routine' for ICE vehicles. Anecdotally EVs seem to require battery (or module) replacement far more often, for an equivalent age. Quite a few seem to get through drive motors too, which seems odd given how simple they are.

At 28 years old my R129 has never broken down, failed to start, or had anything significant replaced. I'll look forward to similar reports on current EVs 25+ years from now

 

[BTB 500]

Interesting insight. You should pass that on to the very large storage battery industry which has already established itself around the world. And all the national Electricity Grids

And then, of course there are those people risking their homes with solar panels and storage walls.

I’m sure they would love to hear your view.

Let me know what happens to you home insurance premium when you declare that you've fitted a storage battery. Or even an EV charger.

E.g.

Insurance Implications: Fire Risk and Disclosure

Insurance companies calculate premiums and determine coverage based on the risk profile of a home, which includes its systems and appliances. Adding a solar battery storage system significantly alters this risk profile due to the potential for fire. If homeowners fail to inform their insurers of the battery installation, they could unknowingly violate the terms of their policy. In the event of a fire caused by the battery system, the insurer may deny or repudiate the claim, leaving the homeowner responsible for damages.

Why Home Insurers Need to Know About Battery Storage for Solar Panels - Caleb Roberts

As more homeowners invest in solar panels and battery storage to power their homes sustainably, it’s essential to understand how these systems impact home insurance. Adding battery storage to a solar panel setup can provide valuable backup power and energy savings, but it also introduces new...

www.caleb-roberts.co.uk

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

At 28 years old my R129 has never broken down, failed to start, or had anything significant replaced. I'll look forward to similar reports on current EVs 25+ years from now

A 28 year old SL won’t be representative of cars of it’s time. I have no data to support this, however I suspect that only a minority of cars registered in 1997 are still on the road and in rude health.

Most will have been scrapped, some due to accident damage and some due to being uneconomic to repair. EVs are tools to due a job, just like a Corsa, Astra, Vectra, Omega or Frontera.

They were used, abused and eventually scrapped. Only the cherished few have survived. So if they didn’t survive in large numbers, then why would we expect an EV to be any different?

 

[Will]

It may be a completely original (used) pack from a car that's been written off for some other reason.




I don't agree that major component replacement is 'routine' for ICE vehicles. Anecdotally EVs seem to require battery (or module) replacement far more often, for an equivalent age. Quite a few seem to get through drive motors too, which seems odd given how simple they are.

At 28 years old my R129 has never broken down, failed to start, or had anything significant replaced. I'll look forward to similar reports on current EVs 25+ years from now

I think it’s fair to say that cars like your SL are not a good metric to use when comparing reliability of ICE vehicles - IIRC your SL has only averaged about 2k miles per year and I suspect probably more like 500 miles a year in your ownership? It’s a pampered garage queen and sits on a trickle charger to be used in fair weather - the opposite of most EVs in use today I would think!

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Statistics and risk are very hard for the layman to comprehend.

 

[Fastcar155]

and government ministers

 

[BTB 500]

A 28 year old SL won’t be representative of cars of it’s time. I have no data to support this, however I suspect that only a minority of cars registered in 1997 are still on the road and in rude health.

I think it’s fair to say that cars like your SL are not a good metric to use when comparing reliability of ICE vehicles - IIRC your SL has only averaged about 2k miles per year and I suspect probably more like 500 miles a year in your ownership?

100% - it was @MikeInWimbledon who raised R129s, not me

Yes mine has averaged 2k miles a year from new, 714 miles a year with me. Usage has dropped dramatically since we moved to Shropshire as our local roads are pretty filthy most of the time

 

[BTB 500]

Statistics and risk are very hard for the layman to comprehend.

Bread & butter for insurance companies though, hence quotes like this are interesting:

Adding a solar battery storage system significantly alters this risk profile due to the potential for fire.

 

[Will]

FWIW, I have the exact twin of BTB’s SL500 - same year, engine, body colour, interior etc - mine has more miles (but it does have heated seats!) - no ADS suspension though. Of course I can only comment on reliability since I’ve owned it - it has never let me down but then I’ve not used it much (and as with any old cars there’s always odd jobs that need doing!)

They’re tough old cars the R129s, and major components are well engineered - but most will have required their fair share of TLC over the years - including servicing of course. Simple by today’s standards though (based on 124s really) - probably worth thinking of R230s and onwards if you’re comparing reliability - especially regards to electronics etc.

Likewise my 2003 911 has never let me down - but have a read on Porsche forums regards the M96 engine and you’d never buy one

 

[BTB 500]

FWIW, I have the exact twin of BTB’s SL500 - same year, engine, body colour, interior etc - mine has more miles (but it does have heated seats!)

Go on, rub it in!

 

[Will]

Go on, rub it in!

Your one has half the miles - you wouldn’t be jealous!