The EV fact thread

[markjay]

BTW, the current directive from the Mayor of London is that developers need to "ensure that 1 in 5 spaces (both active and passive) provide an electrical charging point to encourage the uptake of electric vehicles".

So it's 1 in 5. But again, this may vary from Council to Council.

 

[markjay]

And, this is an example from Lambeth:

"A car free development is where parking is not provided on site and when planning permission was granted for the development there was not sufficient capacity for any additional vehicles to be parked on the highway.

When granting planning permission for your home, the council will seek a legal agreement, in the form of a Unilateral Undertaking or Section 106 Agreement removing your ability to apply for a parking permit."

This is what I was referring to in my earlier post, I.e. that if a developer wants to build homes without allocated parking, they must ensure that the tenants cannot apply for a permit to park in the street. In other words, for new development, if there's no allocated parking space then the tenants can not have a car.

But, again, every Council is different....

 

[BTB 500]

With an average EV doing 8,000 miles a year, a three EV household - that doesn't use any other charging -

would find its charger unoccupied for 150 hours of a 168 hour week.

It takes just 6 hours a week to charge an EV at home, using a domestic charger.

Assuming average cars always doing the average daily mileage figure, perhaps. In reality consumption and usage patterns vary and the chances are that a couple of them would need charging at the same time on a fairly regular basis. Occasionally all three. Not forgetting that they'd all need charging more often in winter.

AFAIK the highest charge rate you can get from a standard domestic supply is 7.4 kW. An 80% charge on a 100 kWh battery would therefore take 11 hours without any charging losses. So home charging more than one in a day wouldn't be easy.

Obviously one of them could be charged elsewhere instead. But this is a discussion about convenient & cheap home charging. And I think we've already established that some households will never have the ability to home charge even a single EV?

 

[markjay]

Assuming average cars always doing the average daily mileage figure, perhaps. In reality consumption and usage patterns vary and the chances are that a couple of them would need charging at the same time on a fairly regular basis. Occasionally all three. Not forgetting that they'd all need charging more often in winter....

I suspect that those who find themselves in this situation - I.e. requiring two cars to be charged simultaneously on a regular basis - will adjust their requirements accordingly. Just like people with pets prefer a house or flat with a garden, or elderly couples prefer a flat in a building with a lift, or young couples with children prefer houses near a good school - the list is long.

The point is that these people who have specific requirements are generally a minority, and overall they do not have a significant impact on the housing market.

...AFAIK the highest charge rate you can get from a standard domestic supply is 7.4 kW. An 80% charge on a 100 kWh battery would therefore take 11 hours without any charging losses. So home charging more than one in a day wouldn't be easy....

Are you basing your calculation on 0% to 80% charging? At an average of 3 mile/kWh, that's 240 miles (more in summer, less in winter).

Clearly, people who have two cars, each being driven for 240 miles a day (on average), every day, will struggle with home charging. And yes, anyone in this situation will need to use an expensive public fast charger from time to time.

But, again, it's a niche.

 

[Will]

AFAIK the highest charge rate you can get from a standard domestic supply is 7.4 kW. An 80% charge on a 100 kWh battery would therefore take 11 hours without any charging losses. So home charging more than one in a day wouldn't be easy.

At 4 miles per kWh that’s well over 300 miles of range in your example. Hypothetically doing that every day that would be in the region of 100k plus miles a year!

Who’s doing that in your example of a 2 or 3 car household?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Assuming average cars always doing the average daily mileage figure, perhaps. In reality consumption and usage patterns vary and the chances are that a couple of them would need charging at the same time on a fairly regular basis. Occasionally all three. Not forgetting that they'd all need charging more often in winter.

AFAIK the highest charge rate you can get from a standard domestic supply is 7.4 kW. An 80% charge on a 100 kWh battery would therefore take 11 hours without any charging losses. So home charging more than one in a day wouldn't be easy.

Obviously one of them could be charged elsewhere instead. But this is a discussion about convenient & cheap home charging. And I think we've already established that some households will never have the ability to home charge even a single EV?

Perhaps a 3 EV household may have a second or even third wall box if simultaneous charging is required (assuming that local supply has capacity).

Alternatively they might reserve the wall box for the car doing 300 miles every day, and maybe have a couple of 3 pin sockets for the other two EVs.

If all three EVs are doing 300 miles per day and live in a tower block or house with street parking only then they’ll probably use public chargers.

 

[BTB 500]

Are you basing your calculation on 0% to 80% charging?

Or 10% to 90%, or 20% to 100%. All are the same number of kWh - it was just an example.

At an average of 3 mile/kWh, that's 240 miles (more in summer, less in winter).

Clearly, people who have two cars, each being driven for 240 miles a day (on average), every day, will struggle with home charging. And yes, anyone in this situation will need to use an expensive public fast charger from time to time.

Wasn't suggesting that kind of mileage per day at all. Simply making the point that if you have multiple EVs in a house all in regular use the chances are that sometimes more than one will be low on charge at the same time.

 

[BTB 500]

At 4 miles per kWh that’s well over 300 miles of range in your example. Hypothetically doing that every day that would be in the region of 100k plus miles a year!

Who’s doing that in your example of a 2 or 3 car household?

As above that's not what I was suggesting.

 

[markjay]

..Wasn't suggesting that kind of mileage per day at all. Simply making the point that if you have multiple EVs in a house all in regular use the chances are that sometimes more than one will be low on charge at the same time.

True, and while I want to say that planning your charging in these circumstances isn't essentially more complicated than planning the refuelling of your ICE car, the fact is that some people do on occasion run out of fuel on the motorway. I suppose that those people who can't currently manage the refuelling of their cars won't be very good at managing the charging of their EVs, either. I'm sure we've all met people who regularly have 1% charge on their iPhones and wondered how the heck do they get themselves into these situations?

 

[BTB 500]

Perhaps a 3 EV household may have a second or even third wall box if simultaneous charging is required (assuming that local supply has capacity).

Alternatively they might reserve the wall box for the car doing 300 miles every day, and maybe have a couple of 3 pin sockets for the other two EVs.

If all three EVs are doing 300 miles per day and live in a tower block or house with street parking only then they’ll probably use public chargers.

Again, nobody was suggesting cars doing 300 miles a day. Just that if EVs are the primary/only car for multiple people in a house then sometimes more than one will need charging at the same time. Impossible if you have no parking place with a charger, tricky if you have a single parking space with a charger, easy if you have multiple parking spaces & chargers.

 

[BTB 500]

True, and while I want to say that planning your charging in these circumstances isn't essentially more complicated than planning the refuelling of your ICE car, the fact is that some people do on occasion run out of fuel on the motorway. I suppose that those people who can't currently manage the refuelling of their cars won't be very good at managing the charging of their EVs, either. I'm sure we've all met people with 1% charge on their iPhone and wondered how the heck do they get themselves into this situations?

But the current discussion is specifically about home charging rather than topping up from your choice of commercial outlet (which is what most people do with ICE).

Incidentally the AA data I posted recently showed that (proportionately) twice as many EVs run out of 'fuel' at the roadside than ICE cars.

Post in thread 'The EV fact thread'

Apr 17, 2025

In The Telegraph today:

Electric cars break down more often than petrol and diesel vehicles, the Automobile Association (AA) has warned.

Jakob Pfaudler, boss of the breakdown service, said electric vehicles (EVs) were prone not only to punctures and flat batteries, but also to a host of specific problems such as jammed charging cables and technical glitches.

He said: “There’s a common misconception that electric vehicles break down less frequently than petrol and diesel vehicles.

“Currently, at least, that is not the case. The breakdown rate is, in fact, slightly higher for...

• BTB 500

 

[markjay]

But the current discussion is specifically about home charging rather than topping up from your choice of commercial outlet (which is what most people do with ICE).

Incidentally the AA data I posted recently showed that (proportionately) twice as many EVs run out of 'fuel' at the roadside than ICE cars.

Re home charging, sure, but that's one reason why we have public chargers - to supplement home charging. However, I do agree that the penny-pinchers brigade who regularly check the mpg on their Diesel cars, will bend over backwards to ensure that their EV never sets foot (or tyre, rather) anywhere near a public charger, come what may

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Again, nobody was suggesting cars doing 300 miles a day. Just that if EVs are the primary/only car for multiple people in a house then sometimes more than one will need charging at the same time. Impossible if you have no parking place with a charger, tricky if you have a single parking space with a charger, easy if you have multiple parking spaces & chargers.

If there’s only a single parking space with a charger and more than one car needed to be charged, wouldn’t the cars simply be rotated?

A wall box will add around 30 miles range per hour, so charging one until bed time, and charging another one overnight could give more range than the average person would use.

It would give one EV an easy 100 miles range and another EV an easy 200 miles depending upon what time they arrive home, go to bed and leave home.

If more range than that is required regularly on both EVs and there really is no other way of charging then either use public charging or ICE. Most people don’t though.

 

[BTB 500]

Re home charging, sure, but that's one reason why we have public chargers - to supplement home charging. However, I do agree that the penny-pinchers brigade who regularly check the mpg on their Diesel cars, will bend over backwards to ensure that their EV never sets foot (or tyre, rather) anywhere near a public charger, come what may

Isn't the point that using public chargers currently makes most EVs more expensive per mile than an equivalent ICE car? That may not be an issue for most people active on this thread, but it will be for many others.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Every single new high-rise building that I've seen in London so far had an underground car park. And the developers that I spoke to said it was a requirement. However, this may differ from one local Council to the other.

Primelocation and Rightmove prove them wrong. Look up new builds.

It's not a regulatory requirement. Londoners aren't that rich, and the appetite isn't there to pay for it, even amongst those who really are rich.

 

[BTB 500]

If there’s only a single parking space with a charger and more than one car needed to be charged, wouldn’t the cars simply be rotated?

A wall box will add around 30 miles range per hour, so charging one until bed time, and charging another one overnight could give more range than the average person would use.

It would give one EV an easy 100 miles range and another EV an easy 200 miles depending upon what time they arrive home, go to bed and leave home.

If more range than that is required regularly on both EVs and there really is no other way of charging then either use public charging or ICE. Most people don’t though.

Yes sure there will often be ways to manage it, depending on how much charge people need next day. But having to go out late at night to shuffle cars around wouldn't be ideal (particularly if it's raining ). Depending on insurance etc. you might need both drivers to be involved.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Assuming average cars always doing the average daily mileage figure, perhaps. In reality consumption and usage patterns vary and the chances are that a couple of them would need charging at the same time on a fairly regular basis. Occasionally all three. Not forgetting that they'd all need charging more often in winter.

AFAIK the highest charge rate you can get from a standard domestic supply is 7.4 kW. An 80% charge on a 100 kWh battery would therefore take 11 hours without any charging losses. So home charging more than one in a day wouldn't be easy.

Obviously one of them could be charged elsewhere instead. But this is a discussion about convenient & cheap home charging. And I think we've already established that some households will never have the ability to home charge even a single EV?

For sure, I'm just saying that the cars would need to be charged 18 hours a week, "if" they weren't ever being charged elsewhere.

Obviously, trying to find 18 hours in a 168 hour week will be complicated for many.

And let's be sensible about this: what kind of idiot would have a home with three EV's at this stage in the technology? Aren't the kids and the Nanny more likely to be running a petrol Polo? Won't Mum want a convertible ? Isn't the weekend car more likely to be a 911 ? And won't someone need a diesel Range Rover to drive 500 miles - towing a caravan - for their Easter Break?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Yes sure there will often be ways to manage it, depending on how much charge people need next day. But having to go out late at night to shuffle cars around wouldn't be ideal (particularly if it's raining ). Depending on insurance etc. you might need both drivers to be involved.

Would a cable that's positioned to reach two vehicles help?

 

[BTB 500]

And won't someone need a diesel Range Rover to drive 500 more than 100 miles - towing a caravan - for their Easter Break?

FTFY

 

[BTB 500]

Would a cable that's positioned to reach two vehicles help?

If possible, certainly.