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Thinking of buying this...any feedback, pointers please

Based on @Skd884's post, it's done zero miles in the last 16 months, not 8.

On the subject of running costs, 15k - 20k miles a year is going to be very expensive. In addition to the fuel, I used to reckon on around 13k miles for a set of tyres on my W212 E63 Biturbo's at £200+ per corner, so that's between £950 and £1,250 a year, then budget also for brake pads and discs (around a grand for a front set, a bit less for the rears), and also the - almost inevitable - "big bill" for something that breaks on a 85k+ mile car.

Don't get me wrong, the W212 E63 is a hoot to drive (I still rate it as one of the best all-round cars ever) but running an older example outside of warranty on big annual mileages is going to be eye-wateringly expensive. I used to do 12-13k miles a year in mine so I do have a feel for these things.
Thanks - what potentially could be a big bill and would regular oil changes ie every 5000miles help to mitigate any risks?
 
Completely agree on the cost, I'd almost say OP would benefit from doing preemptive engine work / checks to spot any potential issues, get them sorted before they cause more problems down the line. If i keep my 6.2 I'm getting the top end opened to check the cams etc now for piece of mind before putting long tube headers. I already did the injectors etc. When both the 6.2 and 5.5 are at around the 80k stage i think its worth getting them looked at.

In terms of tyres, a model like the MPS4S should hopefully last 30k+ on the front and 20k minimum on the rears, theyre the ones I'd choose for longevity. Or any well known premiums that are known to last. The pirellis on my E63s lasted well over 20k on the front axle and at least 20k on the rear. The Goodyear supersports somehow lasted up to when I sold the car at 40k miles after swapping them in for the pirellis so I think some of the newer tyres are quite durable.

An AMG will cost for sure but I've seen some high mileage ones on Tasos' channel and as long as the components that are on the way out are spotted and changed before they cause destruction then who knows, but it is a risky and expensive undertaking
Thanks - what preemptive work should I be doing and approximate costs?
I must say it’s pretty scary the thought of a big bill - the most I’ve had was oil cooler seals on my W212.
 
what potentially could be a big bill
Name pretty much any major component. Examples I can think of that could fail at any time with >85k miles on the odo include (but are not limited to):
  • The transmission wet clutch (the bit it has in lieu of a torque converter)
  • Rear suspension air strut(s)
  • Rear suspension air pump
  • Front suspension strut(s) and or springs
  • Drive-train U/J's / Drive Shaft CV joints
  • Exhaust system (more age related than mileage related), including Cat Converters
  • Turbo (and there are two of those ;) )
And if you're really unlucky (the risk is higher with a motor that is or has previously been mapped) something in the engine lets go. Then you're in a whole world of financial pain.

I'm sure you get the picture but you could also get lucky - although adding 15k-20k miles per year of ownership stacks the odds against you.

The important thing to remember is that this was a £90k+ car when new, so while it's under £20k to buy now, the cost of the bigger components / assemblies can be eyewatering.

would regular oil changes ie every 5000miles help to mitigate any risks

No. There's no point in changing the oil more regularly than the service schedule specifies (12mths / 12,500miles) if your doing big mileages. It's cars used for multiple short runs that kill the oil.
 
Name pretty much any major component. Examples I can think of that could fail at any time with >85k miles on the odo include (but are not limited to):
  • The transmission wet clutch (the bit it has in lieu of a torque converter)
  • Rear suspension air strut(s)
  • Rear suspension air pump
  • Front suspension strut(s) and or springs
  • Drive-train U/J's / Drive Shaft CV joints
  • Exhaust system (more age related than mileage related), including Cat Converters
  • Turbo (and there are two of those ;) )
And if you're really unlucky (the risk is higher with a motor that is or has previously been mapped) something in the engine lets go. Then you're in a whole world of financial pain.

I'm sure you get the picture but you could also get lucky - although adding 15k-20k miles per year of ownership stacks the odds against you.

The important thing to remember is that this was a £90k+ car when new, so while it's under £20k to buy now, the cost of the bigger components / assemblies can be eyewatering.



No. There's no point in changing the oil more regularly than the service schedule specifies (12mths / 12,500miles) if your doing big mileages. It's cars used for multiple short runs that kill the oil.
Would a turbo fail on these more frequently than that in my E350? I may get a warranty with this particular car - I'll have to check to see if these items would be covered.
Thanks
 
I believe this does have the blueish chain if that’s the same? Also the oil check valves - what should I be looking for and is it a diy or expensive job? Thanks
You can only tell whether the later uprated chain has been fitted by visually checking it. It will be one or the other in the link in Post#4.
Re the check valves, I don't know the cost to change them as my E63 wasn't affected. Your indy should be able to give you a ball park figure on the costs involved. I believe member Daveenty had them replaced on his W212 and may recall the rough cost if you pm him.
 
Would a turbo fail on these more frequently than that in my E350? I may get a warranty with this particular car - I'll have to check to see if these items would be covered.
Thanks
As Phil says, there is no way of knowing, but look for puffs of blue smoke on decelleration. A sign of possible worn turbo oil seals.
According to Acid @ MSL, my 26k mile 64 plate model had slight turbo oil seal wear when he remapped it but it never failed me in 3 years afterwards.

Provided the car has FMDSH, you may be able to get a comprehensive warranty from Mercedes, but it doesn't come cheap. Last I looked it was £2850 a year. You'd have to read the small print on aftermarket warranties to see what is and what isn't covered.

Incidentally, a lot of these posts come over as a negative for buying an E63. Don't be put off. Get a pre purchase inspection if possible and you'll have a blast if you get a good one. They are out there.
 
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Don't be put off. Get a pre purchase inspection if possible and you'll have a blast if you get a good one. They are out there.
Completely agree, Roger.

But the OP needs to go in with open eyes if they’re planning on driving a currently 85k miles car up to 20k miles a year for any length of time.

If the OP wants to understand the level of financial pain that what appeared to be no more than an intermittent misfire on an M157 can be, perhaps @E55BOF will be good enough to chime in.
 
Completely agree, Roger.

But the OP needs to go in with open eyes if they’re planning on driving a currently 85k miles car up to 20k miles a year for any length of time.
Thats a lot of mileage and a lot of fuel per annum. The suspension, engine and gearbox mounts, discs/pads and tyres will all need attention before long. Not cheap when you consider the AMG tax.
 
If it were me, I’d be looking to pay more up front for a lower mileage and/or newer car, especially if you’re planning to rely on it for daily use and putting on some serious mileage.

Approved used AMGs come with a 2-year warranty which if you find the right car is a sweetener in the deal :thumb:
 
If it were me, I’d be looking to pay more up front for a lower mileage and/or newer car, especially if you’re planning to rely on it for daily use and putting on some serious mileage.

Approved used AMGs come with a 2-year warranty which if you find the right car is a sweetener in the deal :thumb:
I think its pretty rare to see a W212 for sale at any main dealer now. They are pretty old by their standards.
But I agree, one with a Merxcedes 2 yr warranty would be a good find.
 
I think its pretty rare to see a W212 for sale at any main dealer now. They are pretty old by their standards.
But I agree, one with a Merxcedes 2 yr warranty would be a good find.
Yes obviously! Hence my comments ‘lower mileage and newer car’ - not another 212.

I suspect the OP has rose tinted specs due to the previous 8 years of ownership with their current W212 - taking on a more complex one now at close to 100k miles and 13 years old is unlikely to replicate that ownership experience and I would want to be in something newer these days (like his 212 would have been, 8 years ago!) :)
 
Yes obviously! Hence my comments ‘lower mileage and newer car’ - not another 212.
That "newer" car is going to cost £20k + more than the one in question if another 212 is off the table.;)
Certainly a lower mileage newer 212 would be in budget assuming the OP could raise another £5k-£8k

This is the one I'd be looking at very closely.
 
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As Phil says, there is no way of knowing, but look for puffs of blue smoke on decelleration. A sign of possible worn turbo oil seals.
According to Acid @ MSL, my 26k mile 64 plate model had slight turbo oil seal wear when he remapped it but it never failed me in 3 years afterwards.

Provided the car has FMDSH, you may be able to get a comprehensive warranty from Mercedes, but it doesn't come cheap. Last I looked it was £2850 a year. You'd have to read the small print on aftermarket warranties to see what is and what isn't covered.

Incidentally, a lot of these posts come over as a negative for buying an E63. Don't be put off. Get a pre purchase inspection if possible and you'll have a blast if you get a good one. They are out there.
Are worn turbo seals an expensive job to replace? I take it it’s an engine out job for both?
 
Regarding the mileage and fuel costs - around 80% of fuel costs will be reimbursed using HMRC fuel rates @22ppm.
I’m ok with paying the extra.
I’m feeling a bit hesitant now on reliability & potential costly preventative maintenance over and above servicing. It seems that when things go wrong they go wrong big!
From all the replies it would seem that these AMG’s are not suitable for high mileage use.
Maybe I’m expecting too much after owning my 212 for some time and covering 207k with no major issues (touch wood!)
Are the newer models from 2015 to W213’s any better?
 
Completely agree, Roger.

But the OP needs to go in with open eyes if they’re planning on driving a currently 85k miles car up to 20k miles a year for any length of time.

If the OP wants to understand the level of financial pain that what appeared to be no more than an intermittent misfire on an M157 can be, perhaps @E55BOF will be good enough to chime in.
Any sign of a misfire, walk away. On mine, I'm satisfied that the problem was caused by intermittent failure of the intercooler coolant circulation pump (no fault code). If I'd known that at the time, it would have cost me a couple of hundred quid to have the pump replaced; as it was - bore and liner one pot, all new rods and pistons, though I could have got away with just three rods and pistons - the bill was £11k...

ISTR labour was about a third of that, and that was about four or five years ago. When I acquired my current 550 bhp M157 CLS 63, the first thing I did was have that pesky pump replaced, just in case...
 
Regarding the mileage and fuel costs - around 80% of fuel costs will be reimbursed using HMRC fuel rates @22ppm.
I’m ok with paying the extra.
I’m feeling a bit hesitant now on reliability & potential costly preventative maintenance over and above servicing. It seems that when things go wrong they go wrong big!
From all the replies it would seem that these AMG’s are not suitable for high mileage use.
Maybe I’m expecting too much after owning my 212 for some time and covering 207k with no major issues (touch wood!)
Are the newer models from 2015 to W213’s any better?
I’ve owned a 213 E63S (2018 car) for the last 13 months (having come from a 205 C63S) and can tell you that they are a fabulous car, but they’re still expensive to run.

I do about 7000 miles in mine per year at the moment (second car) and whilst more economical fuel wise than the 212, the costs are still high compared to a regular model and you’ll still get the unexpected happen.

My bills have been quite low, but In the last 13 months, I’ve still had to pay for rear pads (> £400), a failed MOT due to emissions (it’s got no rear mufflers and had an exhaust leak approx £200 with a temp repair), the lower sump pan was leaking and needed to be a replaced at a cost of £587.

Add to that a service (which was included in the final year of a transferred service plan so cost me nothing) which would have cost approximately £500-£600 at dealer rates and around £3000 of fuel, it soon adds up.

Did it make financial sense to buy it? Of course not! Would I change it? Abso-f**king-lutely NOT 😂
 
If you're buying at this end of the market (like I'm looking at, at the moment, because I don't earn enough to buy a £40k+ car), then I'm considering the preventative and maintenance stuff I can do to save money, otherwise the AMG tax on an older car will be big compared with newer cars that likely have less stuff going wrong.

I'm reasonably handy on cars.
Take the rear brake pad example above at circa £400. Rear Brembo and TRW pads (possibly OE) on Autodoc are around £50 (the most expensive W213 E63 pads listed) a set (2x2 pads) and I am experienced enough to do those myself. Some brake appropriate greases, new boot, bolts and retaining spring kits, proper mega cleaning whilst doing the job, take the opportunity to run some fresh brake fluid through. For under £100 I'm getting the best outcome, but it's time heavy.

My view with cars is you pay one of three ways, and I'm budgetting this especially for AMGs.
- pay high new car depreciation; or,
- pay high repair costs for older cars; or,
- pay high time cost with self repairs service

I'm happy with the latter, and I really enjoy taking my time with the jobs and being in my 'zen' space. And thankfully with my approach, it's the only way I could afford a '63.
 

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