trucks overtaking!!

[flango]

The current Position is as follows.

At present in the UK, there is no legislation for minimum speeds on UK motorways. Although there has been calls for years to set a minimum speed limit, the practicalities of doing so means that at present there is still no specific minimum speed. In general, road works, variable speed control and flow of traffic can all affect the minimum speed on a motorway so setting a minimum speed can be problematic. In some countries they do set a minimum speed however and it seems to work effectively. The Republic of Ireland has a minimum speed of 30 mph on motorways, but generally in the UK, minimum speeds are temporary and are usually highlighted by circular road signs.

I seem to remember though in my dim and distant past that Pontoneer was correct and we used to have a minimum speed limit, which is the reasons mopeds etc were excluded from the motorway

 

[oldcro]

A blue circle with 30 in it was (and is) the minimum speed sign for 30mph. Rarely seen but maybe someone could point out where any permanent are still posted, apart from temporary ones used for road works that is.

 

[flango]

A blue circle with 30 in it was (and is) the minimum speed sign for 30mph. Rarely seen but maybe someone could point out where any are still posted.

Thats quite true and as Yachtman points out the only place I have ever seen them is on the entry to Tunnels, seem to think the Tyne Tunnel still has them ?

 

[glojo]

Travelling too slowly on a public highway without a reasonable excuse will leave the driver open to being reported for

Driving without reasonable consideration for other road users

I guess a truck driver that blocks a carriageway for an unreasonbale time would aslo be open to that offence as would the blooming farmer who drives for mile after mile towing their overloaded trailers along narrow country lanes

 

[glojo]

Assuming that a truck does about 400 km per day (obviously it depends on the work the truck is doing, etc etc.), thats 2000 per week, 100,000 per year; about 60,000 miles. 2p per mile.

A car might average about 10,000 miles per year with a tax disc costing about £200. 2p per mile.

The tax on the truck is ridiculously cheap.

Is this taxation for road improvements or a taxation imposed upon us for the improvements of our highways and bye ways?

We can all play with figures until we bore each other to death, but the disgraceful roads wherre I live have NEVER seen any large trucks, but te roads are in a disgraceful condition... Our dual carriageways are country lanes with grass, plus other weeds going in the centre of these narrow unkempt highways.

Hello all!! I've got something to ask you. I do drive a lot and I don't understand some car drivers doing 40 or less on 60 mph limit?? Or around 50mph on dualcarriegways/motorways?? Can anyone explain that?? Why they do that?? I think this is causing danger on the road, when others will try to overtake, etc. And Police should take an action on those drivers. There are countries in Europe where you can get a ticket for "slow driving"!!

I dislike drivers that drive without reasonable consideration for other road users but what we are seeing here is a very basic, very fundamental misunderstanding of what a speed limit is! I get the impression that Toad of Toad Hall wasbasedon quite a few drivers that are posting on this thread.

A speed LIMIT is exactly what it says on the label...... It is the absolute MAXIMUM speed we can travel on the public highway when it is SAFE TO DO SO, taking into account ALL OTHER CONDITIONS...

None of us drive our cars with the the needle of the rev counter in the red zone.. Why not? Why not have the engine revving at the absolute speed limit?

Why do we all insist on getting the speed needle sat on the absolute maximum legal permissable speed and then curse anyone that dares to travel at anything less?

We are allentitled to drive at a speed we deem reasonable and at a speed we deem safe, but if someone wants to travel slower than us, then so what? In a way I admire them... I am a critta for perhaps pinching the odd mile or so above a limit, but I would never dream of complaining about a driver that is happy to travel at 40mph on a motorway.

I have been reading this thread regarding trucks blocking outside lanes and so far I have no opinion either way.. I just want to live and let live. If these trucks delay my journey by five minutes it just does not seem a big dea, but I have still not madeup my mind??

Ask me for my opinion on cars that hog the middle lane of a motorway and then stand back To me they are FAR more ignorant than these truck drivers we are discussing...... The truck driver is at least making an effort to overtake something... The middle lane hogger is justbeing darn right ignorant.

 

[219]

I seem to remember though in my dim and distant past that Pontoneer was correct and we used to have a minimum speed limit, which is the reasons mopeds etc were excluded from the motorway

That's where I was quoting from , through the cobwebs of my memory .....

I have never seen it in writing , but I do remember being told the above during my advanced driver training at Tulliallan ........ so I would have thought it was correct .

 

[bigyin1]

We are allentitled to drive at a speed we deem reasonable and at a speed we deem safe, but if someone wants to travel slower than us, then so what? In a way I admire them... I am a critta for perhaps pinching the odd mile or so above a limit, but I would never dream of complaining about a driver that is happy to travel at 40mph on a motorway.

Actually this is incorrect. If you're taking your driving test and you don't keep up with traffic, or drive to slowly, you'll fail. I forget the actual reason why, but when i did my bike test i nearly failed when I didn't overtake a slower car when I had the chance to (I did in the end and passed). Anything doing 30-40mph on a motorway is dangerous and you WILL get pulled by the police IF your vehicle is capable of travelling faster.

 

[GRAV888]

Actually this is incorrect. If you're taking your driving test and you don't keep up with traffic, or drive to slowly, you'll fail. I forget the actual reason why, but when i did my bike test i nearly failed when I didn't overtake a slower car when I had the chance to.

They call it 'making progress'.

 

[219]

'Failure to make adequate progress' is indeed one reason to fail a driving test - however , that does NOT mean you have to nail the speedo needle onto whichever number applies to that stretch of road : there's a world of difference between someone who is nervous and timid , barely getting out of second gear , and someone who perhaps does 35 in a 40 or 50 in a 60 limit . The common sense criterion is THAT YOU ARE NOT HOLDING OTHERS UP .

RE the remark about motorway speeds - again it all depends on the circumstances . Nothing wrong in itself with driving along at 30 if it is a quiet motorway and you are not inconveniencing anyone ; but try doing it on a busy motorway with fast traffic in every lane and an entirely different story .

 

[rf065]

The problem with cars that drive slow on our roads, is a more modern one.
Years ago, with a lot less traffic it was easy to find a place to pass a slower car, or the slower car would pull over or indicate left to signal the road ahead was clear for you to pass them. When did you last see that happening?

Nowadays, you cannot find a long enough stretch of road that has no oncoming traffic, the drivers who drive slow will not assist you in anyway to pass them & as a result we now have a nation of drivers who do not even know how to overtake anymore and will sit behind the slower car forever until you have a train 16 cars long and everyone has to sit at 40mph in a 60mph limit if they like it or not.

If you dare to overtake someone these days when a car is approaching in the other direction, even although you manage the manouvre safely & are back on your side of the road long before the oncoming car is anywhere near you, some of them will flash their headlamps & give you the finger just because you dared to overtake, what is that all about?

Russ

 

[NuisanceValue]

There's absolutely NO excuse for rolling roadblock overtakes which take miles, it's pure and simple bad driving. The truck being overtaken just needs to relax the throttle for a second or two, and the other truck will be past, and the slower truck may lose a mph or two, but, that soon comes back, losing at most a few seconds. I have no truck with time pressure arguments.

If they can't drive in a considerate manner, they should be banned from overtaking.

The thing that annoys me the most, especially on a dual carriageway, is when one truck pulls out to pass another one on front, then as they try to inch past they hit a slight incline, and lo and behold the inside lane truck starts to pull ahead, for whatever reason and the truck trying to overtake pulls back in, exactly where he was in the first place!

What was the point of that? Except to cause a tailback of drivers who could have got by.

I will say, there are one or two decent truckers about, one of which pulled into a layby the other day to let a stream of us cars pass on the A1. I always give a wave of thanks to these guys.

 

[st4]

The problem with cars that drive slow on our roads, is a more modern one.
Years ago, with a lot less traffic it was easy to find a place to pass a slower car, or the slower car would pull over or indicate left to signal the road ahead was clear for you to pass them. When did you last see that happening?

Nowadays, you cannot find a long enough stretch of road that has no oncoming traffic, the drivers who drive slow will not assist you in anyway to pass them & as a result we now have a nation of drivers who do not even know how to overtake anymore and will sit behind the slower car forever until you have a train 16 cars long and everyone has to sit at 40mph in a 60mph limit if they like it or not.

If you dare to overtake someone these days when a car is approaching in the other direction, even although you manage the manouvre safely & are back on your side of the road long before the oncoming car is anywhere near you, some of them will flash their headlamps & give you the finger just because you dared to overtake, what is that all about?

Russ

Perhaps the real problem is that modern cars are capable of making a fast speed seem like crawling along. Very little noise, vibration, steam coming from the radiator

When speed limits came into play, particularly the 70mph one on MWAYS cars simply couldn't sustain extended speeds above this whilst remaining quiet, air conditioned and without a breakdown. It was not only a legal limit but a mechanical one.

I drove mine all the way along the M25, M40, M6, M74 at speeds that were safe for the conditions, but may have been a breach of the limit. But its a modern car, try doing that in a typical 1970's car and well, you just couldn't.

I am not saying speed limits should neccessarily be raised, as drivers ability hasn't evolved much since the 1920's, but cars sure have. 70mph doesn't feel fast, adventurous, daring and at the edge of the cars ability like it did in the 60's. It feels poderous, slow, and if my experience of the M40 is anything to go by, dangerous.

At 70mph (GPS, not speedo) I was overtaken by an AA rescue truck with a mondeo on the back, Lorries, coaches, and nearly ramed into by a BMW (what else) as it couldn't possiby understand that maybe, just maybe, someone may actually want to travel legally. Actually, most cars were approaching my rear view to fast for comfort (in lane 1 too) and really to avoid this hazard an GPS speed of nearer 95mph was needed to stay safe in lane 1 and 2.

So what do we need, better roads. Not sure, the motorway network south of the border seems to work well, 3 lanes is better than 2 you get in france and germany. Better drives would work better as they could operate the newer cars and hence could travel faster safer. A and B roads need improved, or widened, modern cars are much broader now.

 

[Dryce]

I drove mine all the way along the M25, M40, M6, M74 at speeds that were safe for the conditions, but may have been a breach of the limit. But its a modern car, try doing that in a typical 1970's car and well, you just couldn't.

If memory serves 70s cars were typically quite capable of hammering along well in excess of the 70 limit.

As you said earlier though - some were quite a bit more tiresome at speed than the equivalent models today.

Non-motorway/dual carriageway road speeds IIRC were lower. Tyres, brakes (often all round drums), and handling of smaller to mid-range cars weren't so good. Trucks were generally slower on these roads as well.

 

[st4]

If memory serves 70s cars were typically quite capable of hammering along well in excess of the 70 limit.

As you said earlier though - some were quite a bit more tiresome at speed than the equivalent models today.

Non-motorway/dual carriageway road speeds IIRC were lower. Tyres, brakes (often all round drums), and handling of smaller to mid-range cars weren't so good. Trucks were generally slower on these roads as well.

Yes in higher end 70's cars, the phenonema for speed suppression really came in the late 80's for the masses. Even small budget cars (like a fiat panda 04 onwards) is capable of travelling at 80mph in comfort at ease. In the early 80's and 70's cheaper cars just couldn't do this. You correctly note the advances in braking and handling too.

Modern Lorries can pull 60mph up steep inclines, even the hill beyond Auchterarder on the A9. In the oldie days no way.

On single carriage ways again the supression of speed feeling comes into play. I can drive down the A82 down Loch Lomand at the legal speed limit and hear no engine noise, little roaring and generally it feels very slow. In a Austin Montego (god we made some sh**ers) this just isn't the case.

Is it that speed limits are outdated, I know driving standards are (a wee drive on the M8 on a Friday PM from Glasgow to Edinburgh proves this nicely). However I think modern cars for comfort, handling are just great.

I was reading an old James May article stating that 70's British cars are cr4p. He made the valid point that the car has been with us for 100yrs, and cars from this era are 70% evolved, so its a bit like cave man to modern man.

It is infurating when trucks overtake, for as they've evolved, so have cars so the performance differential is still there. It just happens faster.

 

[glojo]

Actually this is incorrect. If you're taking your driving test and you don't keep up with traffic, or drive to slowly, you'll fail. I forget the actual reason why, but when i did my bike test i nearly failed when I didn't overtake a slower car when I had the chance to (I did in the end and passed). Anything doing 30-40mph on a motorway is dangerous and you WILL get pulled by the police IF your vehicle is capable of travelling faster.

I hate to say it but what I said was correct, what grav said is also correct and it used to apply mainly on an HGV driving test, but will apply on most tests. From memory the big no,no's were hesitation when pulling out from a road junction, hesitancy when entering a rondabout, but an examiner will look to see if a rider or driver is capable of making satisfactory progress.

Failing to make progress will never apply if you decide to travel at 65mph on a 70mph dual carriageway, or not travel at 30mph in a 30 mph restricted area.

I would guess however that when sitting a driving test and proceeding along a dual carriageway that has a national speed limit.... The examiner would be looking to see if the candidate can safely increase speed to the national speed limit, that is completelydifferent from what I was saying and we appear tobe not using common sense?

For normal, everyday driving, there is NO WAY in the world that anyone is compelled or forced to drive at the absolute MAXIMUM permissable.

Some of you guys are really showing your lack of driving skills, or knowledge. Who here thinks you MUST TRAVEL AT 30 MPH in a 30mph speed restricted area?

Hands up
Who thinks we MUST travel at 30mph in a 30 limt?

 

[Dryce]

I was reading an old James May article stating that 70's British cars are cr4p. He made the valid point that the car has been with us for 100yrs, and cars from this era are 70% evolved, so its a bit like cave man to modern man.

Journalists are strange creatures. They will one day declare new product is a major advance and yet 25 years later ridicule it out of context.

A 1.6 litre car like a Cortina in the 70s could easily do and sustain 85 mph. A 950 Fiesta could do the same - it weighed about 60% of its current brethren.

The difference that I recall in terms of travel speed now vs. then was the lack of motorways and dual carriageways. Just looking at this side of the border the journey times between the central belts and Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen, and Inverness have improved massively since the 70s. The difference in travel time has nothing to do with the cars. It's the trunk road upgrades and motorways.

The biggest advances we see in mass market cars today isn't so much in terms of evolution since the 70s. It's the ubiquity of the technology and features that have spread down to the lower end of the market and the legislation that encourages more weight.

The real story is that by the 70s modern car designs were probably >90% evolved.

The chapters since have been: weight, equipment, efficiency, legislation, and digital electronics.

May got it wrong.

 

[car1tref]

Seen this several times and is very irritating! driving along a dual carriage way came up to 3 trucks , first one driving at 55mph, presumably limited but going uphill. second truck decides to overtake but also limited to 56mph and empty so is going faster but only just. Takes half mile to get past , as soon as he is past what is now the second and fully laden is now going downhill and immediately swings out to regain his first position. All this gains either of them is a few yards but more irritaingly several car drivers who would like to move on at a reasonable 65 - 70 mph but are held up for almost a mile by some very poor and selfish actions by these truckers. As i say have seen several similar instances and was wondering if this is some sort of truckers revenge or just a stupid way to wind up other drivers!

Going back to the O.P. - as a regular user of the A12 in Essex, it's not just one or two trucks overtaking the other, it's the 25 miles of trucks queuing up the A12 from the M25 and heading towards the Harwich, Ipswich ports etc.. that cause me a problem, they work in tandem pulling out and overtaking in tandem and leaving cars, vans etc.. no chance to get past! I'm sure that for the other drivers on here who use the A12 they see this every day!
I recently spent a day with a friend who works for the vehicle inspectorate who were monitoring the traffic conditions and actual traffic counts i.e. how many lorries pass in 5 minutes and which lanes used and actual traffic holding issues by the larger vehicles, this was all done as a preamble to the Tachograph stops and checks held a week later.
One of the worst issues that cropped up regularly was the tactics used by most arctics in holding up the cars - in one case five lorries had a queue of over 1.5 miles behind them because they were working in tandem continually overtaking each other and staying in lane 2 of the 2 lane dual carriageway, the cars seemed to be too wary to try and get between them for an overtake.