Urgent Legal Advice Needed

[Pietre]

I have agreed a price to have my bathroom retiled with granite floor and stone walls, ok so far. The walls have needed to be taken back to brickwork which I have agreed to pay extra for, but the plumber (they reccomended) hasnt done his bit correctly causing delays and other problems. One of the two partners has got a strop on after going to the pub and told his other partner that he wants to walk away from the job, but wants paying for his labour and extra materials. I have told them to do the job or get nothing. They are trying to leave me with an unuseable bathroom plus £1000 worth of tiles that I would need to get someone at short notice to fix. Can someone tell me where I stand please. I have a lodger who is being quite tollerant but this will last only so long.

 

[pammy]

I think it depends on the term of the contract but if it ended up in court you would be expected to pay them for materials that they had supplied and that were serviceable and also for labour - less any costs that you might have because they'd done a bad job. But if they've just walked away there's not a lot you can do. Can you not get the guys in a talk with them and reach an amicable solution? They have a reputation at risk here - but they might not care about that.

Who supplied the plumber? Was it a sub-contract job by them? I know they recommended him and I would use that in my argument with them, but if the plumber works direct for you which is how it sounds then it does weaken your case sadly.

Has the plumber finished his work yet or does he have more to do. I'd be inclined to sakc the plumber and work with the other guys to get someone in who can do the job. It all depends who you want to keep the most.

 

[Benzowner]

Pietre,
With all respect, people don't get a strop on and walk out on a job without reason, albeit possibly unjustified. I would think that something has been said, and taken, possibly, out of context. They may have recommended the plumber, but, his "contract" is with you, not them. If they are being held up because of him, that must be resolved by you. I would talk to them and ask what the problem is. As regards the legal issue, they can quite rightly ask for payment for the works completed so far, and all materials on site. When you employ another company to finish the works, you can deduct any additional costs that you may incur, from your first company. However, is the contract written down, and did you raise a purchase order or was the contract just verbal. If it was the latter, and most works at home tend to be agreed verbally, if it went to court, it would be a question of, he said, they said, and probably both parties will loose. My advice is talk. Oh, I am a sub contractor in the building trade and talking can save an awful lot of money, being quiet, festering and going to court can cost. Good luck with your issue.

 

[glojo]

I have told them to do the job or get nothing.

Hi Pietre,
I go along with both posts. I would consider making a pot of tea, chat to the two partners about the best way forward. The plumber seems to be the fly in the ointment, not the two builders although I accept they may well have recommended this person.

Any recommendation is simply that, a recommendation which you must consider and then make an informed decision. It looks like on this one occassion this recommendation did not work out?

Bury the hatchet (in the plumbers head!! joke ) and get the builders on your side.

Good luck,
John

 

[Birdman]

My bro spends his working life as managing architect on everything from home extensions to (currently) a £40 million greenfield number. Anyway, once the contractors are in he devotes 18 hours a day to sorting exactly the kind of issue you describe. His mantra is, always take notes, minute and circulate all decisions (not on your scale of work, obv), and most important of all, keep them talking. Even on big contracts the subs can need MASSIVE patience and understanding.
So, provided you have confidence they can do the job properly, do whatever it takes to keep them happy (except pay twice over).

 

[dougal74]

I don't think legal advice is the answer as these things are so difficult to determine and will take so much time on a project that you basically want to see finished as quickly as possible.
Have a think about the project manager, contractor and sub-contractor relationships. Are the two partners working for you and managing the project, including sub-contracting the plumber, or are they all working directly for you (with you in the project management role)?
If it is the former then they have a greater obligation to see the project through, and less of a claim against you in the event the job is left unfinished. I suspect in this case it is the latter and in this event you need to put you best mediation hat on a reach a compromise with the parties involved. As the above posts suggest - time and a gentle touch are probably the way forward.
Sorry not to be of more help.

 

[ADY1983]

If I get the chance I will ask my brother he is a solicitor..
Or you could send the boys round...

 

[mapleleaf]

It sems to me that the tilers have perhaps underestimated the time involved in completing the job and basically got their price wrong such that if they finish it they will lose money. From my experience supplying trades people to the construction industry - walk offs are very very common - for all kinds of reasons. mainly though they fall into to 2 or 3 catagories
1) they have got a better offer of more money or a longer/bigger contract somewhere else
2) they cant actually do the job or its to fiddley (lots of cuts for example )
3) they have been held up because of third party delays -as time is money this costs them unpaid downtime so they walk.

In your case I think if they are persuaded to stay they will likely do so begrudingly and maybe not do such a good a job as expected - making matters even worse. They wont necessaily care if you can use your bathroom or not so may even come & go whilst fitting in other jobs.

But ditching the whole crew for a new one isnt going to get your bathroom finished quickly.

If you do ditch them though, I think it would be reasonable to pay for the materials and a reasonable (perhaps reduced) amount for the labour - after all, work has been carried out that if they didnt do, someone else would have to.

Not everyone can work well with granite & stone - any cuts take longer to carry out than normal ceramic tiles. Have these guys laid these kinds of materials before?

I agree with others that legal action at this stage is probably not the best route. If you decide not to pay them anything then maybe the materials should be returned to them and you just start again from scratch.

having a lodger of course is a further consideration for getting the job done asap as I presume you have 1 bathroom that you al have to share

Sorry this isnt legal advice but just my thoughts - I really cant abide tradespeople who start a job & dont finish. My Brother in law had a similar issue (not with a bathroom) and in the end he paid up for what they had done to get rid of them & got someone else in to finish off.

 

[Birdman]

Pietre - I think you're getting some pretty consistent feed-back here. Maybe with around 100% agreement with your 'ask the audience' lifeline you can safely answer the question.
No prizes on offer (except a new bathroom!)

 

[miro]

I have agreed a price to have my bathroom retiled with granite floor and stone walls, ok so far. The walls have needed to be taken back to brickwork which I have agreed to pay extra for, but the plumber (they reccomended) hasnt done his bit correctly causing delays and other problems. One of the two partners has got a strop on after going to the pub and told his other partner that he wants to walk away from the job, but wants paying for his labour and extra materials. I have told them to do the job or get nothing. They are trying to leave me with an unuseable bathroom plus £1000 worth of tiles that I would need to get someone at short notice to fix. Can someone tell me where I stand please. I have a lodger who is being quite tollerant but this will last only so long.

It depends on whether they are leaving the job because they made a mess or because they simply got a better offer from another client.

It could end up being the case that it will cost you money to fix any potential mistakes they made plus what needs to be done.

Just get on with finding someone who knows what they are doing and be prepared to pay much more than you thought it would cost as getting the lowest price is usually a pointless exercise.

 

[Spinal]

We're nearing the end of restoring a house in Italy and we had a similar scenario. What we did was get a third party to give a (written) quote on repairing any messy work, and finishing the job. Then, we had a friendly conversation with the builders, who wanted to leave the job as it was taking longer than they expected (and wanted to be paid for what the time they stayed, relative to the time they expected to stay there...) and our "defence" was that if they wanted to leave the job, that was more than acceptable, but the cost of the repairs and finishing of the job would need to be deducted from the agreed price. The "cost" you need to deduct is from the quote you have, and generally; repairing things is not a cheap option. As such, our builders decided that they would finish the house, and (hopefully) in december we will be ready to inspect it again...

Michele

 

[Piff]

We're nearing the end of restoring a house in Italy and we had a similar scenario. What we did was get a third party to give a (written) quote on repairing any messy work, and finishing the job. Then, we had a friendly conversation with the builders, who wanted to leave the job as it was taking longer than they expected (and wanted to be paid for what the time they stayed, relative to the time they expected to stay there...) and our "defence" was that if they wanted to leave the job, that was more than acceptable, but the cost of the repairs and finishing of the job would need to be deducted from the agreed price. The "cost" you need to deduct is from the quote you have, and generally; repairing things is not a cheap option. As such, our builders decided that they would finish the house, and (hopefully) in december we will be ready to inspect it again...

Michele

This seems to be close to the mark.
I am a building contractor and this IMHO could be the way forward. Offer to pay their contract sum less the amount another contractor would charge to complete the contract.
Do not part with money for work you are not happy with or is incomplete.
Any new "tradesman" is going to add additional cost for putting right/taking over someone else's work.
Beware accepting the same people back if they feel squeezed on price. You may not get the best finish - there is always an element of "you get what you pay for", however, different people have different opinions of acceptable standards - back to earlier point - do not pay for work you are not happy with.
Confirm everything in writing & copy all parties - use recorded delivery if you need to rely on documentation in court.
Good luck.

 

[Pietre]

Thanks for all of your advice. I am not an unreasonable person (I hope), and told the tilers that I had no problem with paying them extra for the increased work due to the condition of the walls, and have had their plumber remove the toilet and wash basin completely to allow them more room, fortunatly I have an outside toilet and downstairs shower. I have heard from the partner that appears not to conduct business from the pub, and he says I am being more than genorous and he will be there at 8:30 this morning. I dont know if his partner will be there also, so we will see what happens. Again thanks for all of your advice.

 

[pammy]

Do let us know what happens Pietre