W123 v W124 Differences in ownership?

[jackafrica]

I'm looking to buy either one of these models.
so far i've managed to learn a bit from here by searchingthrough various threads.

However, I'd love to read of current opinions from ownrs of either or both models with their opinions and merits or problems with them, as they become older, classic models.

Particularly would like to hear from owners who perform their own maintenance on the relative pros and cons of each.
I'd be looking at models with the M103 engine I think.

Thanks, i look forward to reading owners views. Hopefully I won't pull the trigger on one before I get to read some serious replies.

cheers
richard

 

[hotrodder]

I've owned both, always estates. W123's are tougher mechanically and generally have a more 'tank like' build quality IMO. Having said that they are less complicated/sophisticated than w124's... FAR more rust prone than 124s and already well into 'proper' classic status i.e. prices are generally higher as the cheap/tatty ones have already been driven into the ground

If we're talking say a coupe for occasional use/2nd car then i'd kinda prefer a 123. Regular use/daily driver then it'd have to be a 124 for me as from a driving POV they're nicer pretty much everywhere

Outside of routine maintenance the only problems i've had with 123s were rust based. I've had more mechanical work to do with 124s but then they have typically been both higher specced and higher mileage examples...

The m103 was the six pot petrol fitted to pre facelift w124s, it became the m104 for later models. A 280 w123 would have the m110 engine. The m102 four pot saw use in various MBs including later (post '80/81?) w123s and pre facelift 124s

 

[219]

The above pretty much sums it up ; I've had several of both series .

The W123 is more of a relaxed cruiser with a soft , wallowy ride with which they float along the road , soaking up bumps . They were like this from new and I suspect were designed to be this way at a time when MB were trying to make inroads into the American market .

The W124 , like the preceeding W114/5 series , has much sharper and more controlled handling , and is probably more suited to fast , everyday motoring in modern road conditions .

Assuming you are looking at six cylinder cars , a W124 with the M103 or even M104 will be noticeably more fuel efficient ( both will generally return low to mid 20's mpg ) as well as offering better performance than either of the six cylinders offered in the W123 , those being the twin cam M110 as found in the various 280 models , and the much older single cam M123 ( which was a thinly disguised development of the much older M180 which had been around since the 1950's ) found in the comparatively rare 250 - neither of these engines would generally break 20 mpg , with consumptions in the mid to high teens mpg being the norm .

The W123 is more robustly engineered , both mechanically and bodily , with everything having a greater feeling of solidity than the W124 ( but then people made similar comments about it in relation to the 114/5 series when the 123 came out , decrying the introduction of plastic door handles in place of nice , solid chromed ones etc ) . Alas , the earlier cars are now much older and , although well protected in their day , now have rust problems simply because of their age . Many things which break on W124's , just don't on W123's though ( window regulators being a good example , but if you compare the over engineered item from a 123 with the mass produced one from a 124 you will see why - I've replaced numerous 124 ones but never one on a 123 .

A 123 is a Classic car from an earlier era , which could still be used on a daily basis , but is more of a car to nurture and cherish and which will probably outlast you if looked after ; a W124 is more of a modern car , easier to live with on a daily basis , still has the potential to last many years , but not quite as solid and durable as a W123 , with more parts likely to wear out over a period of time .

Cheaper examples of the W124 are still comparatively plentiful ( with the very last Indian produced ones now only being 11 years old , as opposed to the youngest 123's being a quarter of a century old ( as , of course , are the earliest 124's ! ) .

 

[grober]

One thing to add is that the W123 and W124 [ to a lesser extent] rust issues are only a factor in some countries. If you live in hot dry country then it may not be so important. You may experience more problems with paintwork and interior trim degradation with high UV light levels instead. High rainfall /snow and the use of salt on roads in winter has taken a high toll of these older Mercedes in the UK. If aircon is a desirable feature I think you are more likely to find it in a W124. I would not dismiss a tidy W126 either if one appears in your search.

 

[jackafrica]

Hi fellas,
Thanks for the answers so far. Looking at my original post I should've been a little more specific.
1. I live in Australia on the island state of Tasmania, not many cars here to choose from, so a trip to the mainland to buy and the internet is my search source.

2. I'm looking only at the 6 cylinder models, maybe a 260 but preferably the 300. I would be performing all maintenance and the majority of the repairs required.

3. The economy factor isn't critical, smoothness and comfort being in front. car will be likely to only do 5,000 miles or 8,000ks per year.

4.I'm trying to work out if the 123 0r the 124 is the better bet for my needs. Unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to drive either, hence my questions on the comfort and the ride difference between the two.

5. Ruled out the S Class of the same period, more from a complexity and size comparison. Should I perhaps consider them?

6. As the use of the car is to be shared, would it be complete lunacy to look at something like a 1974 450SE or similar. They do bring back memories. Fuel consumption, well, if you're going to own one and worry about fuel...

6. Finally, I'm keen on the wagons too, either 123 or 124, but they are thin on the ground.

Thanks for the insights and experience so far.

 

[219]

OK , with your location in mind , rust may not be such a factor as it is here in the UK .

The pool of cars you will have to choose from may also be slightly different as it is my understanding that cars , both new and used , tend to be much more costly out there than they are here - hence , I imagine , there will not be quite so many of the range topping , higher spec models .

Since you mention a 450SE ( W116 ) , here in Europe rust free examples are few and far between , but it is a kind of big W123 - you probably also got the 280SE with the M110 engine out there which started in the W114 and was also used in the 116 , 123 , 107 and early 126 series .

Actually the S class car generations kind of overlapped the mid range ones : the 116 series came out when the 114/115 was still current , then the 123 came midway through the 116 production run ; likewise , the W126 replaced the W116 while the W123 was still current and the W124 followed another three or four years behind .

Therefore a 116 is an earlier design than the 123 , which benefited from a lot of technology which filtered down from its bigger brother . The 126 is in some ways a bigger 123 as well , but a lot of features from it were carried into the 124 .

Just as a 123 is more solid than a 124 ; a 116 is heavier and more solid than a 126 . I have had both of these too , and currently have a 126 of each generation ( there was a mid run facelift ) .

A 450SE will be a thirsty beast , seldom seeing better than 15 mpg , but my 500SEL seldom dips below 20 mpg ( unless I get lead footed ) and I have seen 25 mpg out of it on long runs . The 280SE does not have the performance of the V8's , but goes decently enough and returns 18 mpg or thereabouts . I had a 116 series 280SE years ago and currently have a 126 with the same engine but can't compare them well because of the time in between .

I'd say a 126 , being later and somewhat lighter , handles better and feels a bit more modern , although they are more similar than they are different - if that makes sense ?

A 300SE , with the M103 , in the 126 body , is a popular and good car . The bigger cars certainly offer more comfort and space inside , especially the SEL series with sprawling legroom in the back . Although the shorter cars with smaller engines do handle a bit more nimbly .

 

[coalville126]

+1 for a 300SE, but then I'm probably biased.

A good blend of comfort, safety, economy and performane.

The M103 engine is robust and simple to work on.

 

[219]

Another point , if you have no preconceived idea of how big a car you want , also look at the 190E 2.6 with a smaller capacity version of the M103 .

If the car is to be mainly driven solo , or with just one passenger , this is a very pleasant way to get around . Space in the back is a bit limited for long journeys , although two adults will get in for shorter trips without great discomfort .

These cars are very well engineered and considered by many to be a baby W126

 

[jackafrica]

Okay, the 450SE is out, for me too impractical on the twisty, bumpy roads I have to drive on, most of the time.

I'm leaning more toward the 123 at this point, if I can find a good one, or an early 124. I don't go much on the plastic lower strips from an aesthetic viewpoint with the later 124s. The M103 engine is probably my choice.

I'll look and see if the 190E with the 2.6 is an option here. Sounds as though it may well be an alternative.
Thanks Derek.

Cheers
Richard

 

[219]

If you are going to be driving on twisty , bumpy roads a lot of the time , a 190 is a much more nimble and agile car with a very good chassis than the bigger cars .

The earliest 190's also do not have the plastic 'Sacco panels' that were fitted to later cars after the mid run facelift .

M-B have a policy of adapting cars for use in different countries around the globe - if you look at my 'late 124' thread on this forum , you will see that my Indian spec 124 sits very high off the ground because the cars for that market have suspension engineered for driving on dirt roads etc . If your roads are of this type , you could always order up different springs & shocks to modify your car to this spec . I have already found that the suspension fitted to this car smooths out a lot of the bumpy , potholed country roads around here .

 

[jackafrica]

Getting closer and closer.

There is a really nice, low mileage (100,000) 123 for sale here.
Service history, apart from the last couple of years is complete, price is a little high.
Nice looking car from what I can see.

There seems to be little in the way of reference material on the 12 series, or am I looking in the wrong places?

There is also a low mileage 124 260E, 1990 model which is in good nick apart from a nasty dent in the top of the right rear quarter above the tail lamp.

I've tried to spook up a 190e 2.6, without a great deal of success, but would certainly go for one provided I could find one with history.

I've been advised to stay away from Japanese imports, due to possible rust issues.
Any feelings or experience out there on that?

Anyway, thanks for the help thus far, at least I'm moving closer.
The 123 does look to be a positive thing, if the price can be negotiated down a tad.
You blokes over there would choke at the prices we have to pay.
However, generally we don't have that corrosion issue hich you have if you drive your car in the winter.

Cheers
Richard

 

[grober]

The W124 2.6 has the relatively simple MECHANICAL INJECTION M103 engine which really suits the car. [ not so much oomph as the later M104 engined 2.8/3.2 of course - but they can have wiring loom issues in hot climates] The early solvent paint cars tend to be better paintwise also. One thing to look out for is dodgy EZL ignition unit these are getting increasingly rare= expensive to replace---- don't think any misfire after a time when hot is necessarily down to the distributor/coil.

VIS A VIS the body damage - open the boot and have a good look at the boot floor and chassis members for sign of a rear collision- these cars can take a lot of punishment without showing it. BIG Rear collisions can spring the rear wheel arch seams which means water leaks. if its cosmetic damage I wouldn't put you off the car. Here's a link to a site with copies of the the official MB WORKSHOP MANUAL [ NA version] on the W123 W123 Haynes also do a couple of manuals

Product: Mercedes-Benz 250 and 280 123 Series Petrol (Oct 76 - 84) up to B<br />Classic Reprint

Product: Mercedes-Benz 200 D, 240 D, 240 TD, 300 D and 300 TD 123 Series Diesel (Oct 76 - 85) up to C

but seem to miss out the later M102 petrol engined cars??

 

[jackafrica]

Thanks grober, the body damage at the rear is a crease above the tail lamp, nasty to get at and repair properly, but not enough to even put the tail lamp out of place.

I'll look up the injection types and try to be better informed.

I spoke to the seller of the '83 model 123, everything works, no dents, no paint fading, a few cracks in the dash, but otherwise sound.

Funny thing is they are both looking at the same price, both the same distance away (in opposite directions) from me, a plane flight and a 1200k drive.

Paint is original on both cars, both have MB Tex interiors.

At this point, I'm undecided as to which way to lean, the modern classic in the '83 123 or the quieter, possibly more refined '90 124.

The 123 being towards the end of its run, the 124 at mid model, but with older, lower spec engine.

Wondering if the fuel type required would be the same, the 260E I think, runs on our 91 RON the 280E needing 95RON. Not that it's likely I'd be doing big miles anyway.

Hmm, it's a conundrum!

Cheers
Richard

 

[grober]

I guess the answer is to drive them both--- I think then you will know. the W123 is a true classic --- and drives that way! ---- the W124 is at least 10 years newer a design and capable even now of holding its own in modern traffic . but I'm biased of course!

 

[ss201]

I can only echo what's been said about the W201 (190E) 2.6. They are absolutely brilliant cars - but then I would say that as I have three of them! Equivalent in engineering quality to the big W126 saloons but more manageable and practical to own in every way. A U.S. contributor to the mercedes190.co.uk forum has owned one since new and it's now covered over 600,000 miles. He wouldn't sell it for anything - even though he owns much newer and more exotic Mercedes.

 

[jackafrica]

Hi Graeme,
To drive both these cars would entail at least two flights, they are 1200ks away from me, in opposite directions. To drive examples here where i live is impossible. They simply don't exist for sale.
To drive them both would cost me more than you would pay for one of each in the UK or Scotland ;-

After further investigation, it turns out the history of the W123 is "clouded". The last entry in the books is in 1997, not 2007 as the current seller described! Who knows how many miles were covered in the ensuing 15 years, or if it sat, or what.

Can anyone tell me if the 260 engines in the 124 series were to run on "ordinary" petrol, or high RON value premium juice?

thanks.

Cheers
Richard

 

[jackafrica]

I can only echo what's been said about the W201 (190E) 2.6. They are absolutely brilliant cars - but then I would say that as I have three of them! Equivalent in engineering quality to the big W126 saloons but more manageable and practical to own in every way. A U.S. contributor to the mercedes190.co.uk forum has owned one since new and it's now covered over 600,000 miles. He wouldn't sell it for anything - even though he owns much newer and more exotic Mercedes.

If I could find one in decent nick here with less than 250,000ks, then it would definitely be on the menu.

Thanks for your reply.

Cheers
Richard

 

[grober]

Hi Graeme,
To drive both these cars would entail at least two flights, they are 1200ks away from me, in opposite directions. To drive examples here where i live is impossible. They simply don't exist for sale.
To drive them both would cost me more than you would pay for one of each in the UK or Scotland ;-

After further investigation, it turns out the history of the W123 is "clouded". The last entry in the books is in 1997, not 2007 as the current seller described! Who knows how many miles were covered in the ensuing 15 years, or if it sat, or what.

Can anyone tell me if the 260 engines in the 124 series were to run on "ordinary" petrol, or high RON value premium juice?

thanks.

Cheers
Richard

Sorry didn't realise that you were "BUYING AT A DISTANCE" The W124 2.6 will want high RON petrol. You can retard the ignition on some but they don't like it and tend to run hot which in turn can precipitate CHG failure - don't ask how I know this .

 

[jackafrica]

Hi Graeme,
Yes, buying at a distance, from another island. In a geographical sense pretty much a world away. I thought they might be both "premium" fuel, which at least i available here, at a price.
Thank you. I appreciate the information.

Cheers
Richard

 

[jackafrica]

Thanks for the advice, particularly Pontoneer and grober (Graeme)

I found a local car. An orphan though.
1995 W124 E280
Yes, the one with the wiring loom crispy critters disease. Looks okay.
Will start another thread with the details and ask for some advice.
Haven't picked it up yet, that will be tomorrow. A tad excited.
Saved me a trip to the mainland (about $1k) and the bother of inspections, etc.

Not really my preferred model or colour, BUT it is here and the price is okay.

Cheers
Richard