211 E320CDI Mapped!

[flying banana]

Thanks to Ollie and the crew at PCS - "Eddie" went in for some TLC last week, including an ATF change and Celtic Remap.

I don't have the certificate yet, so I don't know precisely what gains I have on the car, but it feels absolutely mega. The guidance I got was to expect around 290bhp (from 221) and 475 lb/ft of torque (from 376). I can believe the claims based on the world famous Butt Dyno!

Not only is acceleration noticeably stronger - particularly in the 30-70 range, but it's changing down less, feels smoother, has noticeably less throttle lag (although not completely gone), cruises at 70 at around 100 rpm lower than previously, is quieter and early indications are the MPG has improved by 4-5mpg.

The first time I properly floored it, it felt like a big wave had picked up the car and just hurled it at the horizon. It's properly quick for a giant waftmobile

Highly recommended. Best horsepower/torque - to £ ratio mod I've ever done on any car. :bannana:

 

[ChrisEdu]

How does having the remap change your insurance premiums? Also, what kind of effect does it have on things like the longevity of transmission, turbo, engine, etc..?

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of cost was involved for the work done?

 

[flying banana]

How does having the remap change your insurance premiums? Also, what kind of effect does it have on things like the longevity of transmission, turbo, engine, etc..?

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of cost was involved for the work done?

I'll find out insurance wise in a day or two, but as it's about a 30% power increase I'd expect premiums to go up a little. I always declare all my mods.

As I understand it, the increased torque figure is still within the rated input torque for the 7g auto box, but it would be unreasonable to expect no trade-off. I expect if the owner were to do constant full throttle from zero launches box wear would be greatly accelerated, but in reality, I will be driving normally most of the time and accessing the additional power every now and then, mostly in higher gears.

There is perhaps an argument to be made for decreased transmission wear because the additional torque results in fewer downshifts on throttle demand. This is probably a bit of wishful thinking.

As far as increased wear and tear on engine components is concerned, of course, I expect things to wear out more quickly as theoretically things are under more stress, in particular the turbocharger (assuming the power an torque comes from increased boost pressure and commensurate fuelling changes).

The basic engine mechanical architecture though is identical to the 3.0 v6 in the 212 platform, which produces comparable power and torque numbers in E350 CDI guise - so I have a degree of confidence that the thing isn't just itching to blow up in a big cloud of white smoke and steam (touch wood )

The basic cost of my remap was just over £400 - you'd need to speak to PCS to get a quote though - no idea if it changes from model to model. In my case, because I was having a bunch of other stuff done at the same time, I was offered an overall discount of a few quid. It's worth speaking with the folks there to see what makes sense for your needs - they're a pretty flexible bunch

 

[streethawk]

Thanks to Ollie and the crew at PCS - "Eddie" went in for some TLC last week, including an ATF change and Celtic Remap.

I don't have the certificate yet, so I don't know precisely what gains I have on the car, but it feels absolutely mega. The guidance I got was to expect around 290bhp (from 221) and 475 lb/ft of torque (from 376). I can believe the claims based on the world famous Butt Dyno!
Certificate. ?
Not only is acceleration noticeably stronger - particularly in the 30-70 range, but it's changing down less, feels smoother, has noticeably less throttle lag (although not completely gone), cruises at 70 at around 100 rpm lower than previously, is quieter and early indications are the MPG has improved by 4-5mpg.

The first time I properly floored it, it felt like a big wave had picked up the car and just hurled it at the horizon. It's properly quick for a giant waftmobile

Highly recommended. Best horsepower/torque - to £ ratio mod I've ever done on any car. :bannana:

Certificate. ? Does this mean you had it on the dyno.

 

[flying banana]

Certificate. ? Does this mean you had it on the dyno.

No idea - I was told that the customer normally gets some kind of document - to be honest I don't know if it's a dyno plot or a generic confirmation of the type of map that was applied (stage 1, stage 2, economy etc.) with typical power/torque/mpg targets.

In my case the guy who does the mapping had not done this because his wife was about to give birth, so I can't confirm either way.

I don't really care about the numbers - it feels like a vast improvement, and good value for money from the driver's seat

 

[KeithJG]

I'll find out insurance wise in a day or two, but as it's about a 30% power increase I'd expect premiums to go up a little. I always declare all my mods.

As I understand it, the increased torque figure is still within the rated input torque for the 7g auto box, but it would be unreasonable to expect no trade-off. I expect if the owner were to do constant full throttle from zero launches box wear would be greatly accelerated, but in reality, I will be driving normally most of the time and accessing the additional power every now and then, mostly in higher gears.

There is perhaps an argument to be made for decreased transmission wear because the additional torque results in fewer downshifts on throttle demand. This is probably a bit of wishful thinking.

As far as increased wear and tear on engine components is concerned, of course, I expect things to wear out more quickly as theoretically things are under more stress, in particular the turbocharger (assuming the power an torque comes from increased boost pressure and commensurate fuelling changes).

The basic engine mechanical architecture though is identical to the 3.0 v6 in the 212 platform, which produces comparable power and torque numbers in E350 CDI guise - so I have a degree of confidence that the thing isn't just itching to blow up in a big cloud of white smoke and steam (touch wood )

The basic cost of my remap was just over £400 - you'd need to speak to PCS to get a quote though - no idea if it changes from model to model. In my case, because I was having a bunch of other stuff done at the same time, I was offered an overall discount of a few quid. It's worth speaking with the folks there to see what makes sense for your needs - they're a pretty flexible bunch

I am pleased you posted about Celtic as what you have written is exactly how i found my C class after the map.

Increased mpg and the performance on the move is something else!.....as you say about transmission the torque is still below the maximum tolerated by the 7g but i noticed because of the extra torque it doesn`t change gear quite so much.

My atf was changed just prior to my remap just to make sure things were up to scratch......i have been using the tiptronic lately especially in town and during cold warm ups to keep 2000revs....seems to save the box going up and down all the time and that in itself will save wear?

I am about 9 months into my remap and no problems at all and engine still quiet as normal and i do use it!

 

[streethawk]

I am pleased you posted about Celtic as what you have written is exactly how i found my C class after the map.

Increased mpg and the performance on the move is something else!.....as you say about transmission the torque is still below the maximum tolerated by the 7g but i noticed because of the extra torque it doesn`t change gear quite so much.

My atf was changed just prior to my remap just to make sure things were up to scratch......i have been using the tiptronic lately especially in town and during cold warm ups to keep 2000revs....seems to save the box going up and down all the time and that in itself will save wear?

I am about 9 months into my remap and no problems at all and engine still quiet as normal and i do use it!

Yeah have to agree mine is awesome after map and we'll worth it.

 

[ian1676]

I've had my CLS (W219 so same car/engine underneath!) done - 18,000 (103,000 in total on the car) miles done since with much better, effortless performance and improved fuel economy too. No problems at all - what's not to like?

 

[ian1676]

I've had my CLS (W219 so same car/engine underneath!) done - 18,000 (103,000 in total on the car) miles done since with much better, effortless performance and improved fuel economy too. No problems at all - what's not to like?

Actually, on reflection I don't like the fact that I have to pay £85 for the pleasure of attending a speed awareness course next month - the remap has made putting my foot down at 50 and blasting off along a dual carriageway a little too addictive!!

 

[ChrisEdu]

Actually, on reflection I don't like the fact that I have to pay £85 for the pleasure of attending a speed awareness course next month - the remap has made putting my foot down at 50 and blasting off along a dual carriageway a little too addictive!!

Somebody I know, a pilot, had to do one of those and got into an argument with the instructor about how ABS helps reduce breaking distances. They tend to disagree, so he quoted figures for bringing an aircraft to a stop with and without it.

 

[Brooks22]

Those are very big gains for the E320cdi. Most of the remapping companies only claim to take the power to roughly 265bhp and 445lb ft. It really does seem like a win-win situation. I would like to get it done to mine as well but the wear and tear aspect does worry me a bit. I only got 5800 miles out of my last set of rears and that was without a remap! I think remaps are very good to do when you are starting to get bored with the car, because they give the car such a boost.

 

[flying banana]

Those are very big gains for the E320cdi. Most of the remapping companies only claim to take the power to roughly 265bhp and 445lb ft. It really does seem like a win-win situation. I would like to get it done to mine as well but the wear and tear aspect does worry me a bit. I only got 5800 miles out of my last set of rears and that was without a remap! I think remaps are very good to do when you are starting to get bored with the car, because they give the car such a boost.

So to be clear, I have not validated the claimed power and torque increases on a dyno. I've got no axe to grind with one mapper vs another, the only reason I have the Celtic map is because it's what PCS offer - and PCS is where I take the car when it needs attention. So I am wary about getting into an argument about claimed vs real gains. What I know for sure is that it feels much more torquey, and the character of the power delivery is relentless. So in the absence of hard figures, all I know for sure is that it represents excellent value for money, even if it doesn't ultimately make 290/475 (but it might )

Sent from my iPad using MBClub UK

 

[flying banana]

Actually, on reflection I don't like the fact that I have to pay £85 for the pleasure of attending a speed awareness course next month - the remap has made putting my foot down at 50 and blasting off along a dual carriageway a little too addictive!!

Totally addictive

Sent from my iPad using MBClub UK

 

[Brooks22]

So to be clear, I have not validated the claimed power and torque increases on a dyno. I've got no axe to grind with one mapper vs another, the only reason I have the Celtic map is because it's what PCS offer - and PCS is where I take the car when it needs attention. So I am wary about getting into an argument about claimed vs real gains. What I know for sure is that it feels much more torquey, and the character of the power delivery is relentless. So in the absence of hard figures, all I know for sure is that it represents excellent value for money, even if it doesn't ultimately make 290/475 (but it might )

Sent from my iPad using MBClub UK

Don't worry, i wasn't doubting you or anything. I think the answer lies in the different maps they offer. Like a stage 1 and stage 2 etc. For example i think that most companies generally quote for stage 1 remap. 290/475 sounds pretty much spot on for what i would imagine a more aggressive map to be. Glad you're enjoying your car. I may get mine done eventually closer to the end of my ownership time with it.

Interesting what you say about the power delivery and gear changes too. I was told by my local Mercedes specialist, the remap on the 320 cdi engine usually tries to move the torque band slightly higher up in the rev band and build more progressively. The throttle lag you sometimes get with the 320 ( which i notice too) can be caused by the 7g gearbox wondering what to do with the sudden surge of torque which comes in about 1500rpm with the factory map.

 

[kid-jensen]

If you already had a remap, say, done by a previous owner, how could you find out?

Would be a sad way to blow 400 quid if you had one already....

 

[flying banana]

If you already had a remap, say, done by a previous owner, how could you find out? Would be a sad way to blow 400 quid if you had one already....

I suspect any reputable outfit will discover the fact before blowing the new map in. I did wonder this myself actually, particularly because as this is my first Merc, and first large(ish) capacity turbo diesel, I had no frame of reference from a performance viewpoint. I guess the simplest way to tell would be to manually time, or use a smartphone app to determine the car's 0-60 time and compare that to the manufacturer quoted times.

 

[flying banana]

Don't worry, i wasn't doubting you or anything. I think the answer lies in the different maps they offer. Like a stage 1 and stage 2 etc. For example i think that most companies generally quote for stage 1 remap. 290/475 sounds pretty much spot on for what i would imagine a more aggressive map to be. Glad you're enjoying your car. I may get mine done eventually closer to the end of my ownership time with it. Interesting what you say about the power delivery and gear changes too. I was told by my local Mercedes specialist, the remap on the 320 cdi engine usually tries to move the torque band slightly higher up in the rev band and build more progressively. The throttle lag you sometimes get with the 320 ( which i notice too) can be caused by the 7g gearbox wondering what to do with the sudden surge of torque which comes in about 1500rpm with the factory map.

That sort of fits - initially it didn't feel any faster because there wasn't the big kick in the pants when the turbo spooled up and the torque hit. I say it didn't feel any faster - that was until I glanced at the speedo and was doing 30 mph faster than I expected to be - oops! I guess the difference is that initial acceleration is excellent, but then instead of staying linear until the next upshift, it increases - just like being picked up and accelerated by a big wave on a bodyboard. I love it, and it puts a stupid grin on my face every time I experience it. God only knows what mapped AMG cars go like!

 

[BlackC55]

If you already had a remap, say, done by a previous owner, how could you find out?

Would be a sad way to blow 400 quid if you had one already....

We can take the map off the car and get Celtic to look at it before its mapped.

 

[KeithJG]

Glad you're enjoying your car. I may get mine done eventually closer to the end of my ownership time with it.

Really don`t understand that line of understanding as just because you have the remap done one doesn`t have to thrash around you can just drive normally but the extra 5mpg comes with it what ever you do.

You will still get about 5mpg more compared with the figures you already get whether thrashing or taking it steady the figures are relevant.

Of course if you have to overtake urgently for some reason then you will do it quicker than standard!

If you already had a remap, say, done by a previous owner, how could you find out?

Would be a sad way to blow 400 quid if you had one already....

My Celtic map was £250 as it does depend where the ECU is, under the wing i am told is more difficult. The remap was just done on it`s own with no other work as my atf was changed earlier.

My map was sent to Celtic and it was found to be standard and the remap was returned all in 90mins........maybe Ashford has quicker internet but we also have 4g.

Celtic are supposed to keep your own map also.

 

[Brooks22]

I just think that you should enjoy the car as standard for a while and then remap it later so that it feels like an appreciable step up. Also, I'm not convinced about the potential reliability of a 320cdi with a remap. The OM642 V6 isn't always the most reliable engine and a remap might exacerbate this. If you have it remapped early on and it breaks something, you would need to pay a lot of money to get it working again. If you remap it after you've had it for a while and it breaks, just sell it and get something new.