All season tyre fitting = MB stalling measure - whilst engineers continue to scratch heads (and get butts kicked for poor engineering of RHD cars)
As the front tyres of AWD vehicles obviously are being driven MB will probably say that it's perfectly normal for them to loose grip and give a sensation of skidding when doing certain manoeuvres especially in wet conditions, so it's going to be difficult, without absolute certainty that the crabbing issue is to blame. Some bright spark at MB will probably say that it's the same as rear wheel spin when accelerating on wet surfaces but because most rear wheels are not technically for manoeuvring then you just end up with wheel spin. Getting back to All Weather tyres. I would probably be happy with these all year round if they are sufficient for a C43 so MB need to be careful as the more powerful cars affected by this may need different tyre ratings so it's not one size fits all.
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stevebgt1
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MB themselves said in their letter "Due to the positioning of the front axle differential on right hand drive cars, the steering position differs very slightly compared to left hand drive models. When the steering is on full lock this steering angle difference can result in the front tyre skipping sensation". This admits that a design change has caused the issue, as left hand drive GLC's don't do it then I'd assume right hand drive GLC owners are well within their right to expect right hand drive GLC's not to do it. I for one would be interested to here the opinion of a legal representative on the contents of the letter.[/QUOTE]
I do not know much about this, but, if this statement is true from MB, should this model in RHD be pulled from production ? It`s obviously NOT safe, as they apparently have claimed that it is.....At the very minimum, every one should be re-called to see if it is curable ? If the RHD design criteria does not allow for correction, then I,m sorry but it should be purely sold as LHD model only, and all RHD pulled back in for LHD conversion or scrapped. Are MB too big and proud to do this ? I know the likes of Toyota have taken such drastic measures in the past to ensure the safety and satisfaction of their consumers.
But, shouting on Forums aint gonna cure it. You need to take this to Watchdog, and get the ball rolling....
I do not know much about this, but, if this statement is true from MB, should this model in RHD be pulled from production ? It`s obviously NOT safe, as they apparently have claimed that it is.....At the very minimum, every one should be re-called to see if it is curable ? If the RHD design criteria does not allow for correction, then I,m sorry but it should be purely sold as LHD model only, and all RHD pulled back in for LHD conversion or scrapped. Are MB too big and proud to do this ? I know the likes of Toyota have taken such drastic measures in the past to ensure the safety and satisfaction of their consumers.
But, shouting on Forums aint gonna cure it. You need to take this to Watchdog, and get the ball rolling....
D
Deleted member 6183
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Am I the only one who avoids full lock?
Serious question, ever since power steering became popular applying full lock has always felt like it's putting undue pressure on the steering system. I prefer to take a little more time and be more sympathetic to the car.
Just because you can go to full lock doesn't make it a good idea.
Serious question, ever since power steering became popular applying full lock has always felt like it's putting undue pressure on the steering system. I prefer to take a little more time and be more sympathetic to the car.
Just because you can go to full lock doesn't make it a good idea.
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You may be right.
Having watched this saga unfold, I'm minded to the view that there are actually two issues.
The first one is related to the different steering geometry between LHD and RHD cars. MB Engineering knew this and knew that it would cause a juddering / skipping issue in cold weather in or near full lock, so when complaints started rolling in they had a pat solution which was "change to winter tyres".
Separate to this - and the fact that some (but not all) cars exhibit much more serious symptoms and in normal driving conditions tends to support this - there is a build / manufacturing fault present, but only on some examples.
So, it's a classic misdiagnosis scenario. Every complaint was being dealt with as though the root cause was the issue known about, and no one considered that there is another fault present - one of example rather than type - that gives similar symptoms.
If I'm right, then there is a real possibility of a solution for current owners. If I'm wrong, swapping tyres is as good as its going to get.
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Even though you are perfectly correct it doesn't really address this issue. MB have a problem here and it's growing by the day. Their AW tyre solution will only buy them time. I don't see this ending well for MB.
Yep this is a weird one as you would expect ALL GLC/C 4Matic owners to have the same problem. But they don't. Some have mild crabbing (like me) which they sort of live with. Others have significant cluncking/severe crabbing which many owners will not live with. And some don't have any problems at all!! How can identical cars display such different characteristics in similar conditions during normal usage? I know that wheel size may be a factor in terms of the tyre's etc.. as some GLC owners have gone for 21's but that aside I puzzled by this.
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HumberMart
Active Member
Is the difference either:-
Skipping - the effect of the geometry, and the tyre relieves the sideways force
Clunking - the tyre maintains grip until the clutch in the transfer box slips and makes a loud metallic bang
This will account for the variability of both symptoms and degree to which the user suffers the effect.
HumberMart
Active Member
This also makes sense if those with larger/wider wheels suffer more 'clunking', and those with smaller wheels suffer more skipping.
D
Deleted member 6183
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I suppose my rather obscure point is that for some of us our driving style might mean that the issue never really happened.
For others it might be like a tooth with a lost filling that you cannot help poke their tongue into. This might account for the excessive tyre wear.
HumberMart
Active Member
Lol - great analogy!
In one of my first posts on this subject before Christmas, having spent 3 days in a C43, I commented on the fact that I'd be happy to live with some of the skipping if it meant keeping the decently tight lock (that I found both surprising and useful).
You could almost liken it to one of those thermostatic tap mixer/shower units on hotel baths, that have a first stage resistance that stops the max temp at 40C or whatever, but you can override it if you're brave.
Maybe a similar release button on the steering wheel could do something similar, with a 'danger of crabbing' logo coming up on the dash!
Notice at the moment threads on this topic are starting to stray a little and that's because we are waiting for the AW tyres to find their way to these shores and be fitted. Only then will the next chapter of this saga begin, and as I suspect it will no doubt ease the problem especially for those who have 21's as they will be given 20's instead which in itself will help. And as I also suspect the cluncking will probably disappear but crabbing, albeit minor, will remain at times but as is the case with many other marques, owners will probably live with this. However what happens next? Come the warmer months will owners put the original tyres back on? If so what will happen will the cluncking return? Will the severe juddering return? If so the whole exercise will have been a complete waste of time for owners and MB as it will bring us nicely back to square one!!.
Phil - The technicians and salespeople at MB dealers will tell you, off the record, that all GLC's exhibit this fault. All customers comment about the problem some loader than others. I've been told it's impossible for MB to move or reposition the axle or steering / suspension components, and looking under our car with the dealer clearly shows this to be the case - The related parts / components are so well engineered, they fit seamlessly together, with no options or room for adjustment.
It really is a simple fact of incorrect design and egineering by MB as their recent statement highlights - the front axle and diff are in the wrong position. Sadly, someone at MB got it wrong on our right-hand drive vehicles
So I don't think this is a manufacturing fault impacting specific cars
Different tyres is the only way forward. The wheel size does have an impact, larger being more pronounced crabbing, but even the 18" wheels crab.
Many customers simply close their eyes and ears to it - bit of the kings new clothes scenario - these die hard MB customers couldn't possible have a faulty car because the dealer has told them it's nothing to worry about, just a characteristic that MB are aware of.
Also important to think about the the group of owners we all belong to, who will register and voice their opinions and ideas on forums like this one. We are most certainly a minority - most GLC owning families would never dream of asking for help or reporting issues on a forum. There might be some statistics linking owner types to forum use - my guess ( could be totally wrong ) is that most forum members and Auto mag readers tend to be sporty vehicle owners and not middle aged husbands and mothers who are the primary demographic for GLC owners. So the scale of the problem will go unreported unless it's possible to gain access to this group of owners, which is unlikely to happen unless Watchdog or similar TV / media coverage can be produced.
Trying to indicate the scale of this fault and I would guesstimate 95%+ of GLC owners will never read or post on a forum like this.
Tony
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Hi,
I think we are seeing the poor results of platform sharing amongst different models for different markets.
It still disappoints me that a company with MB's engineering heritage (first airbags, first ABS etc. etc. - just look at the engineering display at Brooklands) can make this sort of error.
Having worked for two different MB tier 1 suppliers - I believe that MB are experts at quietly fixing problems (often without the owners knowing they have done it) - known as a "silent recall"
Will be interesting to see if they try that trick on this problem!
Cheers
Steve
I think we are seeing the poor results of platform sharing amongst different models for different markets.
It still disappoints me that a company with MB's engineering heritage (first airbags, first ABS etc. etc. - just look at the engineering display at Brooklands) can make this sort of error.
Having worked for two different MB tier 1 suppliers - I believe that MB are experts at quietly fixing problems (often without the owners knowing they have done it) - known as a "silent recall"
Will be interesting to see if they try that trick on this problem!
Cheers
Steve
D
Deleted128943
Guest
Phil - The technicians and salespeople at MB dealers will tell you, off the record, that all GLC's exhibit this fault. All customers comment about the problem some loader than others. I've been told it's impossible for MB to move or reposition the axle or steering / suspension components, and looking under our car with the dealer clearly shows this to be the case - The related parts / components are so well engineered, they fit seamlessly together, with no options or room for adjustment.
It really is a simple fact of incorrect design and egineering by MB as their recent statement highlights - the front axle and diff are in the wrong position. Sadly, someone at MB got it wrong on our right-hand drive vehicles
So I don't think this is a manufacturing fault impacting specific cars
Different tyres is the only way forward. The wheel size does have an impact, larger being more pronounced crabbing, but even the 18" wheels crab.
Many customers simply close their eyes and ears to it - bit of the kings new clothes scenario - these die hard MB customers couldn't possible have a faulty car because the dealer has told them it's nothing to worry about, just a characteristic that MB are aware of.
Also important to think about the the group of owners we all belong to, who will register and voice their opinions and ideas on forums like this one. We are most certainly a minority - most GLC owning families would never dream of asking for help or reporting issues on a forum. There might be some statistics linking owner types to forum use - my guess ( could be totally wrong ) is that most forum members and Auto mag readers tend to be sporty vehicle owners and not middle aged husbands and mothers who are the primary demographic for GLC owners. So the scale of the problem will go unreported unless it's possible to gain access to this group of owners, which is unlikely to happen unless Watchdog or similar TV / media coverage can be produced.
Trying to indicate the scale of this fault and I would guesstimate 95%+ of GLC owners will never read or post on a forum like this.
Tony
Very true though your statement "Different tyres is the only way forward" depends if you're looking at it from the MB angle or as a customer who's spent their hard earned cash on a faulty GLC. If something can be designed wrong it can equally be redesigned right. So the way forward is find out where the fault is and get those MB engineers to redesign the affected components then replace the faulty ones. Of course there will potentially be large costs associate with doing this, that's MB's fault not ours so they should get on with it and do the right thing rather than attempt to mask the fault with replacement tyres which has already been proven not to work......
Very unlikely to happen - MB openly admit that the axle and diff are in a different place to the left hand drive cars. We say he wrong place they say a different place.
Try to picture this.
The axle and drive shafts are integrally linked to the engine, in our case the nearside drive shaft passes through the engine sump. The castings, housings and associated parts have no adjustment - they all fit perfectly together as you would expect, no room for error when assembling the engine, axle, suspension components. Moving the axle means new engine design.
Assuming MB could find a way of repositioning the axle and diff, forwards or backwards, which ever is needed. The wheels would also move in line with the axle - ok But then, the wheels would not be positioned centrally in the wheel arch / front wing panels. Such a shift would break th symmetry and look of the car. MB would need to design and fit new front wing panels + all the associate components underneath the panel, maybe even th engine bay.
It is not going to happen - but I might be wrong, time will tell
I'm not saying give up and accept the position, far from it, we need to push harder!
Tony
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How about we all solve the problem byd doing 7 point turns instead of 1 or 3? It'll 3rd take slightly longer to get where we're going but they'll be no more clunking/crabbing..... maybe.
LOL its what i do, my c43 is fine when its been driven a bit i suspect it will go when the weather gets over 16c
...car is so nice i forgive it lol
