ASSYST Sevice intervals: Con or stupidity??

[IK320]

After getting my W211 E320CDI serviced for the first time at 13,900 miles, I also was dismayed to find the service interval down to 9318 miles when I picked the car up. I was assured by the dealer that it will 'go up' but wasn't convinced. The service sheet clearly states "MB229.5 System Derived" for oil. After reading this thread, I tried going to the ASSYST menu as described, but I was one of those without the option to select oil type, just 'Confirm'. From what appears to be the case from others experience, selecting Confirm in this case merely resets the indicator back to 9320 miles (15000km), so I haven't done that. Given there's no way to set the oil myself, I'm stuck. Is there a dealer option to reset the oil? Even if there is, I've already been told my the dealer there isn't a problem anyway so my words will fall on deaf ears. Any suggestions?

 

[JohnM]

Think you've ended up in the wrong set of menus. My car has been serviced 3 times, every time the oil setting has been wrong afterwards. It took months, lots of letters and lots of aggravation to get it set correctly the first time and I eventually had to do it myself in front of them as the dealer tools do not seem to carry the setting through. Since then I just correct it myself each time.

 

[IK320]

Thanks JohnM, could you tell me how to access the other menu? I've carefully followed the instructions on this thread. I fear that there may be different versions of the software on different cars. I have 4 menu items, Service, Items, Addit. Work and Confirmation. Service 13 appears under items, but there is no option to do anything there, just go back. it also appears under Addit. Work, but selecting that just brings up the option to 'Confirm', not the oil type setting. Am I missing something? It's possible that oil service isn't service 13 on my car but something else, but my service booklet states that's what 13 is...

 

[prprandall51]

Hi IK320, I posted earlier in this thread that I moved my service back 5000miles or so. I think I have the same software as you - just a confirm option and no menus to change the oil type from 229.3 to 229.5.

However, I did my reset at around the 10,000 miles since-last-service mark and this bumped the next service out suitably.

Maybe you just need to repeat the reset after you have got a few thousand miles on the clock after the last service. Not elegant, but it appears to work.

Philip

 

[DieselE]

You have to be very careful here. Not all synthetic oils are to MB 229.5.

The data sheet shows Castrol SLX as meeting "only" MB229.3. That is still damn good by any standard. It is bound to cause confusion to have settings only for "Conventional" and "MB229.5" in ASSYST and then a raft of oils on the market where you would be entitled to think they are to the higher standard but have to scan the fine print to find out.

Given the huge **** up over oil specs which led to MB USA having to cough many millions in compensation for sludged engines, suspect that bound to lead to caution in the settings and the shorter service intervals.

If the ASSYST (or FSS+ if you prefer) system cannot do what is says on the box because it cannot actually cope with varying oils and the default 15k KM setting is being put on, then might as well be honest about it and go back to fixed mileage oil changes.

http://129.35.64.91/bpglis/lubtds.nsf/technicaldata/E0F4AD7C48A80D5480256DB70032C3FB?OpenDocument

May be that they have not got around to getting that particular oil approved to MB 229.5 but equally it is all rather confusing as MB 229.3 is supposed to get you up to 20,000 km anyway! There is a clear disconnect between the required MB oil specs and the FSS+ settings and capabilities so I think they are erring on the side of caution.

And annoying me.


MB sheet 229.3 approved oils

for passenger cars with petrol and diesel engines with extended drain interval indicator FSS up to 20,000 km, or 40,000 km - 25,000 mi, min. 1.0% fuel saving compared to 229.1, based on ACEA A3 B3.


MB sheet 229.31 approved oils; LA "low ash" Oils

This is a new spec pioneered by Mercedes for passenger cars with diesel engines with EURO 4 soot particle filters, e.g. W211 E200 CDI, E220 CDI. The spec was introduced 7/2003. They are called LA "low ash" oils, low on sulphated ash, phosphorus and sulphur to limit particle filter pollution. Oils high in e.g. ZDDP additive can not qualify

MB sheet 229.5 approved oils; "MB Longlife Service Oils"

for passenger cars with petrol and diesel engines with extended drain intervals beyond 229.3 oils, to 30,000 km, min 1.8% fuel saving, first oils introduced summer 2002. 229.5 engine oils must be used with fleece oil filter designed for use with 229.5 engine oils.

Sorry to reopen an oldish thread but my car (W211 320CDi) had its first service today. When I checked Assyst, next service is due in 9300miles. I queried this and it was quite obvious that an alternate setting for longlife oils was way above the head of my service contact.

Real reason for the post is that the oil shown on the invoice is "Mobil SHC MB229.5". My friendly contact said it was low ash Mobil 1 but by now I was convinced that he did not have an "expletive deleted" clue. A web search showed this oil on US MB forums but nothing in Europe. It may be just some standard invoice text but has anyone heard of this oil before?

 

[Satch]

.

Real reason for the post is that the oil shown on the invoice is "Mobil SHC MB229.5". My friendly contact said it was low ash Mobil 1 but by now I was convinced that he did not have an "expletive deleted" clue. A web search showed this oil on US MB forums but nothing in Europe. It may be just some standard invoice text but has anyone heard of this oil before?

Mobil SHC Formula LA 5W-30 is an MB specific Low Ash oil designed for EU4 cars with particulate filters. Which for reasons set out below is a bit of a bugger given that I think, from earlier posts, your vehicle is EU3?

http://www.mobil.com/Germany-English/Lubes/PDS/Pds_Files/euxxenpvlmomobilshcformulala_5w-30.pdf

Now very important point here is that it is MB 229.31 compliant, not MB 229.3 nor MB 229.5. It has a lower additive level to avoid bunging up the EU4 kit so cannot run the same distance as MB229.3, only to 15,000km or 9375 miles.

All of which is damn confusing and will probably lead to more misery if they are confusing it with an MB 229.3 or MB 229.5 oil:

"Mercedes pioneered this new spec for passenger cars with diesel engines with EU 4 soot particle filters, e.g. W211 E200 CDI, E220 CDI. The spec was introduced 7/2003. They are called LA "low ash" oils, low on sulphated ash, phosphorus and sulphur to limit particle filter pollution. In 2004 the ACEA introduced the new C3 spec (mid SAPS, normal viscosity) based on it. Change intervals extend to 15,000 km

 

[DieselE]

Mobil SHC Formula LA 5W-30 is an MB specific Low Ash oil designed for EU4 cars with particulate filters. Which for reasons set out below is a bit of a bugger given that I think, from earlier posts, your vehicle is EU3?

http://www.mobil.com/Germany-English/Lubes/PDS/Pds_Files/euxxenpvlmomobilshcformulala_5w-30.pdf

Now very important point here is that it is MB 229.31 compliant, not MB 229.3 nor MB 229.5. It has a lower additive level to avoid bunging up the EU4 kit so cannot run the same distance as MB229.3, only to 15,000km or 9375 miles.

All of which is damn confusing and will probably lead to more misery if they are confusing it with an MB 229.3 or MB 229.5 oil:

Satch,

Thanks very much for your reply. Yes, my car is an EU3 one. At least I now know what the dealer has put in it and will not be tempted to try and fiddle with Assyst.

Mind you, I suppose if the engine needs topping up mid-service (unlikely, as it went 10,500 miles before asking for oil) mixing in a little Mobil 1 is not going to kill it as the retail price of that superior oil is lower than the dealer's price for the SHC LA. No wonder long term members of this forum call them stealers.

Peter

 

[Dieter]

Hi,

Couldn't link to MOBil oil page so:

wouldn't it be nice to have a list of 'kosher' 229.5 oils (indicating preference for diesel (d) v petrol (p)etc.).

Cheers,

 

[Satch]

Hi,

wouldn't it be nice to have a list of 'kosher' 229.5 oils (indicating preference for diesel (d) v petrol (p)etc.).

Cheers,

This is only going to get worse, especially as there is now an MB229.51 spec. and more will creep in as EU5 approaches. What are the chances of dealer stocking all the oils specs? Bet they default to what they think is the highest for petrol and diesel and even then might get it wrong.

Not complete but AFAIK

MB229.3

Aral Super Elastic 0W-40 Unal
Aral Extra Turboral 0W-40 Unal
Aral BasicTronic 10W-40
Aral SuperTronic 0W-40
Aral HighTronic 5W-40
Aviasynth 5W-40
Avia Turbo CFE 10W-40
BP Visco 5000
Castrol GTD Magnatec 10W-40
Castrol GTX5 Magnatec 10W-40
Castrol GTX3 15W-40, 15W-50, 20W-50, 10W-40
Castrol GTX2 15W-50
Castrol GTX 15W-50
Castrol GXL 10W-40 ACEA A3/B3
Castrol Formula RS 0W-40
Castrol GTX3 Professional 15W-40 (Castrol's best mineral oil)
Castrol GTD 505 01 TOPUP 5W-30
Chevron Supreme SAE 5W-40
Chevron Supreme Semi-Synthetic SAE 10W-40
Elf Excellium 0W-40
Elf Synthese
Esso Ultra
Esso Uniflo
Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40
Fuchs Titan UNIC MC 10W-40
Fuchs Titan UNIC Plus MC 10W-40
Havoline Synthetic 5W-40
Havoline Formula3 X1 Extra 10W-40
Havoline Formula3 X1 Diesel Extra 10W-40
Hellas Super Synto 0W-40
Hellas Hermes Plus 15W-50
Kendall Motor Oil Elite 0W-40
Liqui Moly Diesel Synthoil 5W-40
Liqui Moly High Tech 5W-40
Liqui Moly HC7 5W-40
Mobil 1 with SuperSyn 15W-50
Mobil 1 TriSynthetic 5W-50, 15W-50, 0W-40, 5W-40 (100% synthetic)
Mobil Super M 15W-40 (mineral)
Mobil Super S 5W-40 and 10W-40 (mineral w/ synth additives)
Motul 6100 Synergie 10W-40
Motul 4100 Turbolight 10W-40
Pentosin Pentosynth TS 10W-40
Pentosin Pentosynth 5W-40
Pentosin Pentoturbo 15W-40
Pentosin Diesel 10W-40
P.O. Zirve
P.O. Zirve Ekstra
Pennzoil Synthetic European Formulation 5W-40
Performanx Full Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-40
Schaeffer Micron Moly 5W-30
Schaeffer Micron Moly 10W-40
Schaeffer Supreme 7000 10W-30
76 Pure Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-40
Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30
Shell Helix Plus 5W-40
Shell Super Motor Oil 10W-40
Sunoco Forza SAE 15W-40
Ultra Turbo Semi-Synthetic Motor Oil 0W-40
Valvoline All Fleet Extra 15W-40, 20W-50, 10W-40
Valvoline SynPower
Veedol SUPER X-TRON 10W-40
Veedol SUPER X 15W-40

MB229.31

Aral Tronic 229.31 5W-30
BP Visco 5000 MB 5W-30
Castrol FORMULA SLX Turbo Diesel 0W-30
Castrol TXT Softec MB 5W-30
Fuchs Titan GT 1 5W-30
Liqui Moly TopTec 7000 LA
Low SPAsh Motorenöl 5W-30 (DaimlerChrysler)
Midland Synqron 5W-30
Mobil SHC Formula LA 5W-30
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 (from 3/2005)
Pento High Performance 5W-30 LA
Shell Helix Diesel Ultra AE 5W-30
Shell Helix Ultra AE 5W-30
Wintershall ViVA 1 topsynth alpha LA 5W-30
40
Aral SuperTronic 0W-40 LOW SAPS (ACEA C3)
Castrol GTD Magnatec 5W-40
Fuchs Titan GT 1 10W-40
Liqui Moly TOP TEC 4100 5W-40
Midland Synqron 5W-40
Motor Gold Mid SAPS 5W-40
Motul SAE 5W-40 Vollsynthetisch
Pento High Performance 5W-40 LA

MB229.5

AGIP Formula LL DC 5W-30 (I)
Amsoil Synthetic 5W-40 European Engine Oil (USA)
Aral SuperTronic G 5W-30 (D)
Aral SuperTronic M 5W-30 (D)
Castrol DCO TOPUP 0W-30 (D)
Castrol Syntec European Formula 0W-30 (USA)
Elf Excellium 229.5 5W-30 (F)
FormulaShell Ultra AB 5W-30 (GB)
Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL MB 5W-30 (D)
Labo MB 229.5 5W-30 (F)
Liqui Moly Longtime High Tech 5W-30 (D)
Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40 (USA)
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40
Mobil SHC Formula MB 5W-30
Motorex Profil M-XL 5W-30 (CH)
Motul MB Specific 229.5 5W30
OMV full syn MB 5W-30 (A)
Pennzoil European Formula Ultra 5W-30 (USA)
Premium Synthetik Motorenöl 5W-30 (DaimlerChrysler, D)
Quaker State European Formula Ultra 5W-30 (USA)
Shell Helix Ultra AB 5W-30 (Mercedes-Benz) (GB)
Shell Helix Ultra DC 229.5 (GB)
Total Quartz 229.5 5W-30 (F)
Valvoline SynPower MB 5W-30 (NL)

MB229.51 (see not being paying attention , have we!)

Introduced 2005 for diesel engines with EURO 4 soot particle filters and longer service life than the 229.31 oils. Change intervals 20,000 kilometers

AMSOIL European Car Formula 5W-40
Aral SuperTronic 229.51 0W-40 LOW SAPS
Fuchs TITAN GT1 229.51 SAE 5W-30 (first fill oil)
Mobil1 ESP Formula 5w-30

 

[Rory]

Addition for 229.5 - I use Motul MB Specific 229.5 5W30 from Opie Oils in my C270. I just picked what seemed a reasonable oil at a reasonable price. MB dealer happily used it on the cars recent service. It cost me about £5/L - dealers price for Castrol SLX was £12.95 + VAT = over £15/L.

On Mobil 1, and Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel - I was assured by another oil wholesaler (not Opie Oils) that the petrol and diesel versions are the same thing but in different packages, it's purely a marketing exercise. The datasheets are certainly identical. It wouldn't surprise me to find that this is typical of many 'diesel specific' oils. Although the EU4 229.x1 low ash oils *might* be different?

 

[Dieter]

Hi Satch,

Thanks a LOT

Cheers,

 

[Satch]

Looks like Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5w-30 will become the default synthetic used going forward, for a while at least. Mobil seem to be consolidating their synthetic product range in the UK.

Meets MB229.31 and MB 229.51 so that covers just about everything, petrol or diesel.

 

[JohnM]

Little footnote to this thread. Had 3 services at MB Watford, the oil type was set wrongly after the service every time (last service was done for free to make up for this, took me nearly 3 months to get them to admit it was wrong, yet it still came back wrongly set after that free service! ). On top of that the mileage at which the next service was due remained fixed between services (no increase at all after long journeys, which is 90% of my driving, in complete contrast to how it behaved before the first service). Have just had the car serviced at Tony Purslow in Guildford. The car came back with the oil type set correctly (I hadn't mentioned anything about it) and the mileage at which the next service is due is now back to extending after every long drive, just as it did before its first visit to Watford. Yet MB Customer Service insist there is nothing at all the stealer can do to change the way Assyst works. Yeah, right!

 

[calum]

Has anyone seen a time-based countdown, rather than miles?

We have a W169 A150, which has only done 4K miles, and it's now saying "B service in 29 days". Oddly, the car will be 1 year and 3 months old in 29 days time.

Does that make any sense to anyone?

 

[prprandall51]

... the oil type was set wrongly after the service every time

Hi JohnM, can you please tell me how you check in Assyst what the oil setting is? Presumably, you are able to confirm the oil is set to be 229.5.

I looked on mine and could not find this information. All I was able to do was do a "Confirm" on an intermediate oil service.

Thanks

Philip

 

[prprandall51]

Has anyone seen a time-based countdown, rather than miles?

We have a W169 A150, which has only done 4K miles, and it's now saying "B service in 29 days". Oddly, the car will be 1 year and 3 months old in 29 days time.

Does that make any sense to anyone?

It undoubtedly makes sense to an inscrutable little computer embedded within your dash that has some infuriatingly complex program to calculate what appear to us mere humans to be completely random service intervals!

 

[JohnM]

Hi JohnM, can you please tell me how you check in Assyst what the oil setting is? Presumably, you are able to confirm the oil is set to be 229.5.

I looked on mine and could not find this information. All I was able to do was do a "Confirm" on an intermediate oil service.

Just did as Satch posted (detailed in post #16 of this thread), Service Item 13 in the Additional Work menu. Shows either "Standard Oil" or "Oil Grade 229.5" highlighted according to which has been selected.

 

[prprandall51]

Thanks, I wondered if that was the case. I reckon that menu has gone (or moved to behind an Engineers-only area).

 

[w124coupe]

Tried this on my March 06 E280CDI - access to the service menu is gone....press reset for 5 secs and nothing happens.

Obviously Merc disabled that (along with the Comand unlock access).

I also have a c. 9,000 mile predicted next service and a bill for .5 spec oil.

I can feel a rant coming on..

 

[steve.link]

My car is booked in for its first service next week - I decided to stick with the main dealer in spite of the high cost. I now find even more issues confusion amongst the dealers.

I asked for the latest 229.51 low ash oil which should give extended service intervals of 20k km (12.5k miles). The dealer did not seem to understand these spec numbers. The oil that was on offer was to 229.31 which was branded as "Mercedes Oil"

They do not know about the 2 options on the assyst for the 2 different oil specs.

My car is a 320CDi EURO 4 so it must have low ash oil which I understand is denoted by the "1" at the end of the oil spec number - ie, 229.31 or 229.51.

My conclusion is that using 229.51 spec oil should result in default 20k km (12.5k miles) change interval and using 229.31 will result in a 15k km (9320 miles) change interval.

I have checked my Assyst settings and I do not have this oil option - is this a missing update for assyst software on my car or can this only be set by the dealer/star?

To further complicate things, has MB returned to fixed servicing? My Asssyst was showing Service A which was Item 13 (oil change) and Item 14 (minor inspection). The dealer insists it needs Item 13 and Item 15 (major inspection) because of its age and mileage - 12 months and 14k miles!!

What is the point of having a sophisticated Assyst system if its simply ignored by the dealer?

I am amazed on how complicated simple things become with these vehicles (this is my first MB) and at the lack of expertise at the dealers. I seem to know more the car than they do.

Sorry for the long post but I would appreciate any comments before I shell out £300 plus for what seems to be little more than an oil/filter change.