BMW in the mix to buy Saab!

[grober]

One bit of blue sky "thinking out of the box" as the marketing guys would say. Leaving aside the present undoubted superior quality of the BMW brand [ no real dispute about that] suppose you have a new genuine [ not pretend] high quality car to put on the market from an established dealer network with a solid warranty. You can call it a Saab or a BMW---- all things being equal which is the more aspirational BRAND NAME ?


ps bear in mind that BMW and Mercedes have until now enjoyed what I believe is a slightly more elevated position in the UK market [ deserved or otherwise] compared to mainland Europe.

 

[Gucci]

Maybe it's where the kooky stuff can be created. MINI a good example of having a 'play' with a brand, whilst keeping detached from the more conservatively styled BMW (Bangle's flame surface design was extinguished from the line up).

Fingers crossed SAAB is saved - it's far too good a brand to waste.

 

[Mr E]

We've been watchng the VAG story for quite a while now, and it's surprising how successful the strategy has been. Perceived wisdom in the industry was that the brand values associated with Audi would be diluted, but they've been able to nicely divide up their market by looking at different groups within the market rather than just a cost base. The really clever bit is that they have been able to keep Audi up at the top of the tree from an aspirational perspective - you can upsell from any product into the Audi brand.

I can't say much about the BMW/SAAB story, but Munich were saying internally for a long time that the VAG model would not work. Now's the time to move forward from that. Whether it'll be an integrated model somewhat akin to VAG or it'll be a more traditional (fragmented in my view) collection of marques is hard to decipher at the moment. BMW has good coverage, but actually has little loyalty to the marque - whereas SAAB was completely opposite (which you could argue led in part to their demise - lack of desire to risk alienating a loyal "cash-cow" type buyer base).

Whatever happen, I hope the SAAB marque doesn't die but gets the manageent team, investment, and manufacturing base it deserves.

 

[Mr E]

It's probably more akin to how the majority of European car buyers think. The superiority of the german car product shines through. Indeed in Car magazine as much as they said the Saab was characterful it was bettered by the BMW 5 series in every single way. Saab need to produce excellent cars, and none of the recent offerings are remotely in this field sadly. BMW will provide the expertise to get them making class leading cars.

I note you see so many 3 series BMWs about but after driving one I know why, they are most excellent cars. The badge IMHO is just a bonus.

Interesting thought, but most european buyers look to local marques rather than global ones. Not to say that the german marques don't sell well on the mainland, but it's a very different market.

I'm also not sure about the superiority of the german product shining through. For every journalist and researcher there is a different viewpoint. The first problem comes in defining "better" - why is a BMW 5 better than a Jag XF or MB E-Class? It's all subjective. I've had the good fortune to have driven a number of very fine vehicles but at the end of the day which one is better? Everyone says that a Ferrari is fantastic - they are, but I'd have a Lambo any day. I like a car with character and soul which Lambo (still) do well (and I hope that they can translate down through the group too).

At the end of the day, all a marque wants to do is sell cars and do that at the least possible cost. When you have a loyal base, you've got an easy life. The VAG model works because there is inter-marque flexibility, and a wide base.

I like your last comment - that's how we'd all like to buy cars. It's not how the OEMs want us to buy cars though... although IMHO a 3-Series is not a "most excellent" car, but that differing view means that we get such a wide choice of vehicles to choose from.

 

[finisterre]

I think Saab are considerably posher than BMW. It is a prejudiced view but all the same I wouldn't be surprised if some oik shouts filth at a schoolgirl from a BMW window. I would be stunned if a Saab driver was so crass.

BMW do have a problem with their image.

 

[Bellow]

The VAG model works because there is inter-marque flexibility, and a wide base.

And enjoys economy of scale that turns the others green with envy. Audis built at VW prices...Lucrative.

Saab need to produce excellent cars, and none of the recent offerings are remotely in this field sadly. BMW will provide the expertise to get them making class leading cars.
.

Please don't judge Saab on their output while being raped by GM. Hopefully BMW could do better, but the question (as raised elsewhere in this thread) is where BMW would position Saab, above or below BMW? Parallel, equal status would be better, but wouldn't that require seperate dealerships etc? Bang go the economies of scale if it needs that degree of seperation. And I cannot for one second imagine BMW promoting Saab as the superior brand!

Would Saab not be better used as a safeguard against the rise of the premium Japanese offerings (Lexus, Infiniti, etc). The Japanese haven't progressed as quickly as might have been expected, but soon enough their reliability will win through. A discrete, capable, and reliable range of Saabs could save the day.

 

[Vlad]

Just before Saab went pop they had developed a cutting edge new Chassis Platform for upcoming new models. Its this thats interesting BMW as it allows a range of cars to be built on it from small city cars to large executives....just by extending the chassis platform.

Apparently its cutting edge technology and were you to develop it from a fresh sheet of paper it would cost multi millions, so I suspect that BMW are thinking why should we bother developing it ourselves when somebody has already done it!

 

[wemorgan]

, but the question (as raised elsewhere in this thread) is where BMW would position Saab, above or below BMW?

Would Saab not be better used as a safeguard against the rise of the premium Japanese offerings (Lexus, Infiniti, etc). The Japanese haven't progressed as quickly as might have been expected, but soon enough their reliability will win through. A discrete, capable, and reliable range of Saabs could save the day.

Maybe Saab will be to BMW what Seat is to VAG, a sub-premium sports/utility brand.....whatever that might be

 

[markjay]

Which gives a hint as to the problem BMW faces going forward here at least - a very successful small executive car which must be close to saturation, and the danger that by being so predominant it ceases to be aspirational, or worse, becomes a cliche.

VW Audi spread their development over four mass market marques, and with such differentiation that should you tire of one, the other three might still keep you with the VAG family.

Intriguing to see what happens and what they make of it.

And while BMW do have the motorcycle division which other car manufacturers do not have, VAG have a commercial LGV division, and five brands.... and MB also have formidable presence in a variety of commercial sectors including LGV, HGV, Buses, Unimog... BMW can not rest on its laurels by simply continuing to make very good executive saloons and a couple of soft-roaders. They urgently need to diversify.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

If BMW are true to form, they'll go into Saab and cherry pick the best bits and let the rest wither away like they did with Rover.

I don't think that BMW could stand a 'sub-brand' like Saab, it's just too close to its own market.

Audi has a dilution running right the way through its 'brand' that works and sells well. I would have a problem though in shelling out £100k+ and looking at a similar design interior as one that costs a quarter of that, but that's just personal preference.

I always liked the idea of owning a Saab, it's just they never seemed to make a car that appealed to me.

 

[Bellow]

Maybe Saab will be to BMW what Seat is to VAG, a sub-premium sports/utility brand.....whatever that might be

That could be a good start point. More Audi than Seat, placed between the GTi (derived from and looks like it!) Golf, and the overly stylised Scirrocco.
Focusing on front two occupants with the practicality of a hatch over the requirement for it be a full 4/5 seater with all the extra doors, aimed at those who are prepared to wait untill they have to have a full family car. A compact, sweet driving, suits younger lifestyles type of car, with a decent turn of speed. (Audi TT without the pretension). Hell, re-invent the 99Turbo!
Thereafter it's more capacious and cossetting that is required in the range - and taking the customer with them as their needs change. Exploit the loyalty!

Should be feasible. Saab have the chassis tech, BMW (Mini) the drivetrains (9sp auto for transverse installation is wasted on Mini when a Saab could better utilise it)

And as a complete aside (almost)... When the auto industry finally wake up to what 2-stokes have to offer, the manufacturer owning Saab will be the best placed for market launch. (When that happens, the speed at which VAG revives DKW will be breathtaking!)

 

[C240Sport97]

BMW won't buy SAAB ...

It learnt when it bought Rover ...

 

[st4]

A Saab would always be marketed as a lesser/cheaper car to the equivalent BMW. It's always been a less premium marque in the same way Bentley is a more premium one to Mercedes.

However it would allow BMW to build the cars it does and go after more sales in the non premium segment and chase sales in the Volvo, Skoda and VW segment. Nice Saab cars with decent BMW engines. It's a licence to print money and BMW to produce more sporting cars of its own.

 

[davidjpowell]

BMW won't buy SAAB ...

It learnt when it bought Rover ...

What did it learn?

Have a google around - they did quite nicely out of Rover.

 

[Bellow]

A Saab would always be marketed as a lesser/cheaper car to the equivalent BMW. It's always been a less premium marque in the same way Bentley is a more premium one to Mercedes.

However it would allow BMW to build the cars it does and go after more sales in the non premium segment and chase sales in the Volvo, Skoda and VW segment. Nice Saab cars with decent BMW engines. It's a licence to print money and BMW to produce more sporting cars of its own.

The bridge between Mini and BMW then.Out grow Mini buy Saab.
Retain Saab customers and achieve sales there rather than having to constantly pursue costly conquest sales.
Definitely there are Volvo and higher end mainstream customers to be poached also. Those that want to go beyond Vauxhall, Ford, VW, but don't necessarily want the image associated with MB, BMW, Audi.

 

[Vlad]

I suspect that BMW would just buy the technology+development engineers from Saab off the Receivers and would not actually want the Saab brand.

 

[bpsorrel]

We'll see, if indeed it turns out to be fact that BMW are bidding and if so, if they're the chosen bidder.

I can see pros and cons, but for long term kudos, BMW would probably be the best option, always assuming they wanted to keep Saab as a brand...

 

[C240Sport97]

SAAB is a dead brand .. has been for years.

BMW doesn't need any more brands, that's the lesson it learnt when it bought and got rid of Rover.

 

[davidjpowell]

Definitely there are Volvo and higher end mainstream customers to be poached also. Those that want to go beyond Vauxhall, Ford, VW, but don't necessarily want the image associated with MB, BMW, Audi.

Absolutely - not all of us want to drive cars around that rust, with gearboxes that clonk, and Inlet Shut-off motors that break...

 

[davidjpowell]

SAAB is a dead brand .. has been for years.

BMW doesn't need any more brands, that's the lesson it learnt when it bought and got rid of Rover.

Obviously can't be bothered to Google... Have a read.. BMW takeover of rover