Driver dies in stolen car chase

[glojo]

Hasn't the law and guidelines changed recently to impose tougher and more automatic sentencing for Death by careless driving. Dangerous driving was difficult to prove.

Your out to wind me up!!

I've always said if you want to murder someone, then use a car then apologise and explain it was a momentary lapse of concentration.

Folks will be pleased to know I have changed my opinion about using a motor vehicle!




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Mow them down with a heavily laden pedal trike or similar! You are gauranteed not to be put in prison. Yup we are REALLY cracking down on folks that cause the deathof other road\highway users.

John

 

[st4]

Here's a thought ... why not legislate that all new cars have to have an automatic speed limiter fitted.... and if actioned my higher authorities it brings the car to a halt....

I know it was out of left field -- but just a thought. I also can see problems with it - others hijacking the access codes etc

Another Big Brother Esque invasion of privacy. Stories like this usually bring out sentiments like this, but again these incidents are rare occurances and usually a criminal would overide such a device. View a car as an extension of yourself. Would you like an electronic chip fitted to you that means if activated your limbs seize? Its the same thing really.

In Japan all cars are meant to have a governor that restricts speed to 112mph. How come street racing is a major issue over there?

Why can't we see the real cause of this, it isn't a police manoeuvre gone wrong, it isn't the ability of the car to go faster than 70mph but it its the criminals that stole the car that are to blame.

 

[Dieselman]

Your out to wind me up!!

I've always said if you want to murder someone, then use a car then apologise and explain it was a momentary lapse of concentration.

it's the lack of imposition of approved sentences that winds you up, not me...I'm just the messenger...

...with a fishing rod...

I've not got time to read this but I'm not sure if it might contain some useful detail.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/pdf/ukpga_20060049_en.pdf

 

[Dieselman]

Another Big Brother Esque invasion of privacy. Stories like this usually bring out sentiments like this, but again these incidents are rare occurances and usually a criminal would overide such a device. View a car as an extension of yourself. Would you like an electronic chip fitted to you that means if activated your limbs seize? Its the same thing really.

In Japan all cars are meant to have a governor that restricts speed to 112mph. How come street racing is a major issue over there?

Why can't we see the real cause of this, it isn't a police manoeuvre gone wrong, it isn't the ability of the car to go faster than 70mph but it its the criminals that stole the car that are to blame.

I agree with your post in the main apart from the highlighted comment. It wouldn't really bother me and I wonder whether you are getting a little bit too bothered about civil liberties issues here.
At the end of the day using a car on the road is a licenced activity. Having that licence means the powers that grant such licence have the power to impose any attaching rules.

If one doesn't like the rules they can decide to not partake of the licenced activity.

 

[nick mercedes]

I can't wait for the Civil rights brigade to start..

Would you really like big brother to have remote control of your car???

 

[nick mercedes]

Regarding this very specific event then clearly it needs to be investigated but in America the driver of the 'stolen' vehicle would be charged with causing that death, no matter if there were contributory factors.

The last thing we need here is American style justice...

 

[glojo]

The last thing we need here is American style justice...

Hopefully we can learn a little from any or all societies?

I like the idea of life imprisonment meaning life. (and not perhaps just seven years)

Regards
John

 

[Dieselman]

Would you really like big brother to have remote control of your car???

If there were proper rules in place say the system could only be activated if involved in a Police persuit, then what does it matter for average citizens.?

I'm not expecting to be in a position where I won't stop if involved in a Police persuit, are you.?

Forget the theoretical maybe, what if, arguments and keep this confined to that exact allowance of use. Is is really an issue then?
The Police intend to stop the vehicle anyway, so cutting the engine is the most safe and least damaging route to take.

 

[st4]

I agree with your post in the main apart from the highlighted comment. It wouldn't really bother me and I wonder whether you are getting a little bit too bothered about civil liberties issues here.
At the end of the day using a car on the road is a licenced activity. Having that licence means the powers that grant such licence have the power to impose any attaching rules.

If one doesn't like the rules they can decide to not partake of the licenced activity.

This comes down to differing opinions and I note your comments.

Driving is a licenced activity, and that fine, but the licence test should be suitable to entrust you with a motor car. Without going into the suitability of the DSA driving test, it is societys way of keeping completely awful drivers off our roads.

I don't see the DSA test as a further grant of power to the state to spy on me. I could argue (if I was big brother esque in my views) that by being born and getting a UK birth certificate gives the state the ability to electonically tag me. Choosing to driving doesn't mean choose to be spied on, and a great many people would agree with me.

Now back the idiots that think its clever to steal a 4x4.

 

[st4]

If there were proper rules in place say the system could only be activated if involved in a Police persuit, then what does it matter for average citizens.?

I'm not expecting to be in a position where I won't stop if involved in a Police persuit, are you.?

Forget the theoretical maybe, what if, arguments and keep this confined to that exact allowance of use. Is is really an issue then?
The Police intend to stop the vehicle anyway, so cutting the engine is the most safe and least damaging route to take.

Ah the I've got nothing to hide view so I don't mind if...

Well you should . I may cause offence but I think that view is a little gutless.

 

[Dieselman]

Now back the idiots that think its clever to steal a 4x4.

Which is the people that the tracking is targeting, not Joe public. The tracking only tracks your car, not you per-se.

I watched the programme in THIS thread last night. It was very enlightening.

 

[st4]

I thought the police were rather good at tracking stolen cars, clearly in this case they were on the case nice and fast.

By aiming to track a very small minority the vast majority are put to inconvenience. I for one will never have one of these security trackers in my car, it just makes me uneasy thats all.

Clearly you, and others are comfortable with it, but I am not, but its all opinion this.

 

[Dieselman]

Ah the I've got nothing to hide view so I don't mind if...

Well you should . I may cause offence but I think that view is a little gutless.

I disagree completely. I'm not bothered by it because I've got the guts to ensure the proper procedures and channels are followed.
It's the gutless people that want to stop it because they can't admit to themselves that they are either doing something wrong, or are too weak to challenge officialdom, IF wrongly accused of something.
The objectors are mainly in the former camp or financially supported by them.

No one is having any liberties taken away, they are free to move about at will.

Too many people want to break the rules then fool themselves that they haven't.

 

[raymont]

I think about 20 people a year are killed during pursuits. This includes police, members of the public and those being pursued.

I don't particularly care about the criminals, but I do care about the others.

Is the risk worth it for a stolen vehicle?

This case could be more than TWOC, but pursuits are undertaken to apprehend someone who has 'only' stolen a car.

 

[chriswt]

I disagree completely. I'm not bothered by it because I've got the guts to ensure the proper procedures and channels are followed.
It's the gutless people that want to stop it because they can't admit to themselves that they are either doing something wrong, or are too weak to challenge officialdom, IF wrongly accused of something.
The objectors are mainly in the former camp or financially supported by them.

No one is having any liberties taken away, they are free to move about at will.

Too many people want to break the rules then fool themselves that they haven't.

Whenever these 'freedom/human rights' arguments com up, be it on TV or the radio, you always have to extreme views fighting it out but as with all these things the best solution is a balance between to two.

I can't see the problem with trackers at all. I'm absolutely 100% sure that no one is secretly monitoring my cars whereabouts, what possible reason would they have for doing so. Its an anti theft device and that's that. Of course *** is perfecly entitled to his opinion.

 

[glojo]

I think about 20 people a year are killed during pursuits. This includes police, members of the public and those being pursued.

I don't particularly care about the criminals, but I do care about the others.

Is the risk worth it for a stolen vehicle?

This case could be more than TWOC, but pursuits are undertaken to apprehend someone who has 'only' stolen a car.

I'm afraid your highlighting the damned if they do, damned if they don't brigade.

Last wek we read threads where people complain because the police can't be bothered to go after folks that steal cars. Today we are now reading folks that think it wrong that the police should dare to attempt to arrest a possible car thief (I have NO idea of the circumstances regarding this latest incident)

The sooner the objectors realise that it is wrong to commit crime and there will be consequences.. the better society will become.
John

 

[raymont]

John,

Is it worth an innocent persons life to catch a car thief?

Just a question.

 

[Dieselman]

I'm afraid your highlighting the damned if they do, damned if they don't brigade.

And how many people are or would be killed/injured as a result of the anarchy that would ensue if the Police didn't do their job and persue these criminals.

 

[Dieselman]

Is it worth an innocent persons life to catch a car thief?

The deaths happen if they are not persued. It's a risk of driving and a reality in life that things don't always go according to plan.

 

[st4]

The deaths happen if they are not persued. It's a risk of driving and a reality in life that things don't always go according to plan.

An L200 is a big heavy car and it travelling @ speed in a built up area could cause even more damage, imagine it if spun out of control in a busy city center mounting the pavement. The police (assumably) did what they thought was right and it didn't end too well, but at least they tried. Mistakes happen, even to the very best of us and I bet the copper who did it is feeling pretty sh*t right now. His intention in all certainty would be to bring an end to the pursuit, not this.

How often do we (I) complain that the police don't even try and do something about a crime, at least here they did, and okay it went wrong, and hopefully it will be investigated and any incompetence dealt with.