Driver dies in stolen car chase

[raymont]

And how many people are or would be killed/injured as a result of the anarchy that would ensue if the Police didn't do their job and persue these criminals.

Lots and lots of cars are stolen. I assume that the vast majority are not chased by the police. So does chasing the small proportion that are pursued make any difference? Other than increase the risk of someone innocent being killed or injured?

 

[st4]

I disagree completely. I'm not bothered by it because I've got the guts to ensure the proper procedures and channels are followed.
It's the gutless people that want to stop it because they can't admit to themselves that they are either doing something wrong, or are too weak to challenge officialdom, IF wrongly accused of something.
The objectors are mainly in the former camp or financially supported by them.

No one is having any liberties taken away, they are free to move about at will.

Too many people want to break the rules then fool themselves that they haven't.

I can't believe I actually read this. Can you truthfully say that if you never broke the speed limit ever when you drove or broke any law you'd be equally as comfortable being in a car with monitoring devices as to one that hasn't go it.

I like the word officialdom, its a new one on here and it strikes a chord. I don't like officialdom and nanny states etc that tell us how to run ourlives, I like choice and the ability to have it, I like the fact my car can break the speed limit even if I choose not to break it, I like the fact I can drive into Glasgow and not be spied on by a Con Charge, I also like taking the train when its too busy to drive. What I don't like is being forced/priced out/taxed out of making a choice of my own.

 

[glojo]

John,

Is it worth an innocent persons life to catch a car thief?

Just a question.

With the greatest of respect that is a silly question and when do you stop comparing?

Is it worth pursuing a shop lifter?

Is it worth pursuing someone that keys your car?

Someone hits you with a baseball bat and drives off, are they worth pursuing?

When do we start saying yes?

I believe there are very strict guidelines regarding police pursuits and I for one will not enter that debate but once the villain knows they can commit crime with complete impunity then we have arrived at anarchy.

If your car was stolen, you phoned the police, you then see a police car parked with the officers working a radar gun and your stolen car is driven by this police car....... Are you going to be pleased the police ignore it and carry on checking speeding motorists?


John

 

[Dieselman]

I can't believe I actually read this. Can you truthfully say that if you never broke the speed limit ever when you drove or broke any law you'd be equally as comfortable being in a car with monitoring devices as to one that hasn't go it.

I've never said I haven't broken the law. I've had convictions too. But I've got the guts to admit to my errors and take the punishment if caught.

We are talking about a remote immobiliser, not permenant tracking, and CC/ANPR cameras don't bother me a bit.

You seem to forget that interenet use is monitored all the time by a number of bodies, including your ISP and Law enforcement agencies. I notice that hasn't stopped you using the facility.

If the thought that your car is being monitored to ensure legal compliance bothers you, maybe you'd better log off now.

 

[Dieselman]

If your car was stolen, you phoned the police, you then see a police car parked with the officers working a radar gun and your stolen car is driven by this police car....... Are you going to be pleased the police ignore it and carry on checking speeding motorists?

Probably, because he could then have a whinge about the Police not doing their job...!!!

 

[st4]

If the thought that your car is being monitored to ensure legal compliance bothers you, maybe you'd better log off now.

Legal compliance? Tell that to the hoodies that go about killing folk, stealing cars, trashing things.

Its not the legal compliance that bothers me, its the spying and just the whole Big Brother mentality.

 

[Dieselman]

You didn't watch the programme in Gurpz link. It was excellent and very informative. The authorities were going after exactly the people you mention in your post.
So, assuming that was what they were doing, and it was having an effect, I guess you must be a supporter really. Or do you mean you should be allowed to do what you want, but nobody else should.?

Don't forget, Big Brother is watching you as you type....doesn't that bother you.?

 

[st13phil]

I disagree completely. I'm not bothered by it because I've got the guts to ensure the proper procedures and channels are followed.
It's the gutless people that want to stop it because they can't admit to themselves that they are either doing something wrong, or are too weak to challenge officialdom, IF wrongly accused of something.
The objectors are mainly in the former camp or financially supported by them.

No one is having any liberties taken away, they are free to move about at will.

Too many people want to break the rules then fool themselves that they haven't.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but have you ever looked into how easy it is for the state to surrepticiously develop a series of laws and a surveillance network that can then be used for rather less than savoury purposes?

Everyone says that it couldn't happen again, but take a look at what happened in Germany in the 1930's and how the instruments of control were put in place while almost nobody noticed. And almost each and every one of the controls was welcomed by the majority because if they didn't do anything wrong, then they had nothing to fear. By the time they realised that the lunatics were running the asylum they had no way to resist.

 

[raymont]

With the greatest of respect that is a silly question and when do you stop comparing?

Is it worth pursuing a shop lifter?

Is it worth pursuing someone that keys your car?

Someone hits you with a baseball bat and drives off, are they worth pursuing?

When do we start saying yes?

I believe there are very strict guidelines regarding police pursuits and I for one will not enter that debate but once the villain knows they can commit crime with complete impunity then we have arrived at anarchy.

If your car was stolen, you phoned the police, you then see a police car parked with the officers working a radar gun and your stolen car is driven by this police car....... Are you going to be pleased the police ignore it and carry on checking speeding motorists?


John

With the greatest of respect, you have asked lots of questions but haven't answered mine.

If your wife, friend ,brother sister... was killed because of a crash caused by police pursuing a stolen car, would that be a price worth paying to catch the thief?

 

[Dieselman]

Everyone says that it couldn't happen again, but take a look at what happened in Germany in the 1930's and how the instruments of control were put in place while almost nobody noticed. And almost each and every one of the controls was welcomed by the majority because if they didn't do anything wrong, then they had nothing to fear. By the time they realised that the lunatics were running the asylum they had no way to resist.

I think you will find that native Germans actively supported those activities. That's a completely different topic.

We are already monitored via, electoral role, various ID registrations, Tax and bank details, passport, credit card usage, money withdrawls, mobile and land line telephones, email and internet...etc..etc.. the list goes on.

Adding a computer to monitor if my car is complying to the law and ensuring I fall into line with the rules as laid down in the license to use a car is the least of my worries. I'm surprised some people can sleep at night.

 

[Dieselman]

With the greatest of respect, you have asked lots of questions but haven't answered mine.

If your wife, friend ,brother sister... was killed because of a crash caused by police pursuing a stolen car, would that be a price worth paying to catch the thief?

If the Police were in persuit how do they cause a crash. Surely the lead driver, that is the one who choses not to stop, is the one who causes the crash.

How would you feel if the Police didn't persue and your Wife/daugter, etc was killed.
Presumably you wouldn't say. "Well it's a shame but I don't think the Police should try to stop these criminals".

Police are there to enforce the Law. If they have to get tough to do it then that's the way it has to be. In all walks of life there will be some mistakes, that's life.

 

[prprandall51]

I can't believe I actually read this. Can you truthfully say that if you never broke the speed limit ever when you drove or broke any law you'd be equally as comfortable being in a car with monitoring devices as to one that hasn't go it.

I can't believe I am reading this! My vehicle is already fitted with a tracker that can monitor my vehicle's position and speed - and so are many others out there. I break the speed limit on motorways all the time and yet still nobody has come to arrest me. I wonder why?

Because we don't live in a Big Brother state. Technology doesn't create a Big Brother state or even particularly enable one, just look at pre-war Russia or Germany. People and societies create Big Brother states, not technology.

There are already tracking systems on the market that can remotely disable the engine in a controlled fashion - if it wasn't so expensive I would have it fitted because:
1) It will help to get my car returned to me
2) When it is returned it is likely to be in a better / less thrashed condition
3) It would help to reduce the cost of car crime
4) I would get endless pleasure picturing the crims squeezing the throttle to the floor whilst the engine slowly shut down.

The day that I think that the BNP is likely to win the genral election by a landslide is the day that I will start to worry about a tracking device in my car. But it won't make any difference because being tracked will be the least of our problems by that stage.

 

[glojo]

Legal compliance? Tell that to the hoodies that go about killing folk, stealing cars, trashing things.

Its not the legal compliance that bothers me, its the spying and just the whole Big Brother mentality.

They say that one of the biggest problems the US had during their Viet-Nam War was.......................... Too much information(I very nearly said intelligence )

The US had the very latest, state of the art intelligence gathering equipment but all this technology simply ground systems to a halt.

There was a post the other day regarding the backing up of real-time, good quality video footage and the numbers involved were terrifying.

To actually monitor all of us, store and act upon this information would take an unestimatable number of people and I guess the costs would be astronomical.

Knife attacks today

Police persuits tomorrow

Big brother the day after.

 

[st4]

The day that I think that the BNP is likely to win the genral election by a landslide is the day that I will start to worry about a tracking device in my car. But it won't make any difference because being tracked will be the least of our problems by that stage.

I doubt thats a thing the BNP would do, its more likely a green party thing under their pretence it would be good for the planet.

As for the rest of your post I can see the logic but I disagree with the concept that technology won't be used to create a big brother state. With a small tweak that box could be used to monitor you movements, with a it of reprogramming the Oyster card system could be used to actively monitor people.

Lets not give them the chance to use technology. And yes, internet useage is easily monitored and its worrying that my habits will be seen elsewhere.

 

[glojo]

With the greatest of respect, you have asked lots of questions but haven't answered mine.

If your wife, friend ,brother sister... was killed because of a crash caused by police pursuing a stolen car, would that be a price worth paying to catch the thief?

With the greatest of respect.......

I did answer it in a polite, mature fashion that expressed my thoughts on your point but to make it crystal clear

I would be upset, angry, annoyed. BUT.....

I KNOW I would be mature enough to not give way to anarchy.

You are wrong to suggest the police should not persue thieves.

Wrong

John

 

[st4]

They say that one of the biggest problems the US had during their Viet-Nam War was.......................... Too much information(I very nearly said intelligence )

.

I don't think you were that close to saying that at all

 

[raymont]

If the Police were in persuit how do they cause a crash. Surely the lead driver, that is the one who choses not to stop, is the one who causes the crash.

They crash because they are being chased. They are trying to escape. That's why they drive so fast.

 

[raymont]

With the greatest of respect.......


I would be upset, angry, annoyed. BUT.....


John

I didn't ask you if you would be upset, angry etc. I asked you if would find it a price worth paying, for a stolen car. Would it?

 

[st4]

They crash because they are being chased. They are trying to escape. That's why they drive so fast.

They shouldn't have knicked it in the 1st place.

Don't they figure that cops have fast cars, are much better at doing driving than them as they do it for a living, just like they won't be so good at stealing as them and that their efforts are futile and just delay the envitiable.

After seeing road wars the more imaginative ones usually run away, but the bobby catches up despite the head start. Why do people have to steal, can't they just get a job like the rest of us (well not me as I was forced to resign yesterday but I am on the hunt for another, not stealing).

 

[Dieselman]

And yes, internet useage is easily monitored and its worrying that my habits will be seen elsewhere.

Why, what have you been doing.? Not going to be sharing a cell with Gary Glitter are you..?