F1 2024

[GeeJayW]

Second race in a row where the real winner's name isn't on the results sheet. Shame.

(I did wonder briefly whether Hamilton was sandbagging to let Russell win; the team would still have had a one-two finish, so maximum points, and neither is in contention for the drivers' title. If it had been Verstappen in second, with his team-mate in the lead, on the same points as Hamilton and Russell, that wouldn't even have occurred to me as a possibility...).

I think Hamilton having led much of the race, was miffed that George ended up on a different and better strategy. By two stopping, the tyres weren’t worn out, so he essentially handed a lot of grip back in to the garage which cost 20-seconds.

It is a shame for Russell, he drove a canny race.

 

[baxlin]

With Red Bull’s domination seemingly come to an end, it reminds me of (was it) 2006, when Jensen Button/Brawn GP built up a massive lead before other teams made better headway. I wonder if Verstappen/Red Bull will similarly hang on in the lead to the end of the season.

 

[Mactech]

Not sure who wrote poor George's post after the race, but very canny wording....

Russell reacted to his disqualification with an Instagram post, writing: "Heartbreaking… We came in 1.5kg underweight and have been disqualified from the race.
"We left it all on the track today and I take pride in crossing the line first.
"There will be more to come."

A new track surface, no dry running on Saturday and somebody got the sums wrong when the hard tyres decided they would go far further than imagined. Risk vs reward.

 

[GeeJayW]

With Red Bull’s domination seemingly come to an end, it reminds me of (was it) 2006, when Jensen Button/Brawn GP built up a massive lead before other teams made better headway. I wonder if Verstappen/Red Bull will similarly hang on in the lead to the end of the season.

With more races in the season now, it may get tight… with any luck.

 

[baxlin]

Not having Sky tv, I listen to the BBC audio F1 coverage, and I must say I like the comments and insights from the ex McLaren man Mark Priestley. A bit like our own member who wrote post #943…

 

[GeeJayW]

Not sure who wrote poor George's post after the race, but very canny wording....

Russell reacted to his disqualification with an Instagram post, writing: "Heartbreaking… We came in 1.5kg underweight and have been disqualified from the race.
"We left it all on the track today and I take pride in crossing the line first.
"There will be more to come."

A new track surface, no dry running on Saturday and somebody got the sums wrong when the hard tyres decided they would go far further than imagined. Risk vs reward.

I guess, had Hamilton gone one-stop, his car may have been under-weight too?

 

[JHS]

He got a bit stuck, not sure it was team strategy, just a bit unlucky.

I am still tying to work out the strategic significance of pitting the lap after Verstappen?

 

[ChrisPDuck]

If I've got my sums correct, the 1.5kg represents less than 0.5mm of tread depth, assuming it's evenly spread across the entire tread width of all four tyres (which it won't be!). I don't know the density of the compounds used in F1, so I made a very conservative guess, just to get a feel for the depth that we're talking about. It seems perfectly feasible that the extra laps on those tyres could have worn away an extra 0.5mm.

 

[grober]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/explained-the-f1-car-weight-rule-that-cost-russell-belgian-gp-victory/10640012/

 

[Petrol Pete]

GR is a lean bloke , but he probably lost 500+gr of body weight during the race.

 

[GeeJayW]

GR is a lean bloke , but he probably lost 500+gr of body weight during the race.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/fia_2024_formula_1_technical_regulations_-_issue_4_-_2024-02-13.pdf

Article 2.4 Says the minimum mass of the car (798kg) includes the driver with all of his racing apparel.

Article 4.6 basically says that the minimum driver weight is 80kg and ballast is added if the driver with his race gear is less than 80kg.

So, GR’s pre and post race weight will have been measured and any weight loss will be added to the ballast when the car is weighed.

 

[grober]

Mercedes brought some major chassis changes to SPA which were I believe were subsequently reversed -in part- after free practice. Perhaps it was during this rapid "in paddock" re-engineering that the extra weight was inadvertantly added?

Mercedes floor upgrade and more: Belgian GP F1 tech

How best to balance the set-up trade-off that the Spa circuit places on F1 teams? Mark Hughes takes you through all the new tech on show at the Belgian GP

www.the-race.com

 

[GeeJayW]

Carlos Sainz: Spaniard joins Williams from 2025

Ferrari driver Carlos Sainz is to join Williams next season on what the team calls a “multi-year” contract.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[AMGeed]

Sergio Perez keeps his seat until the end of this season, as do Ricciardo and Tsunoda.
Wouldn't have anything to do with the Telcel, and others, sponsorship money he brings in would it?

Sergio Perez: Red Bull keep faith with Mexican despite slump in form

Mexican F1 driver Sergio Perez will keep his seat at Red Bull into the second part of the season, the team says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Mactech]

Mercedes reveal early findings that led to George Russell’s disqualification

Mercedes explain some of the factors behind George Russell's DSQ in Belgium.

www.crash.net

I think this is going to be very much as I suspected, with George shedding a little more weight than expected also....

 

[AMGeed]

MotoGP fans. The British MotoGP at Silverstone tomorrow is on free to air TV

The Moto3 event is on ITV1, race starting at 11 15 am

The MotoGP and Moto2 races are on ITV4 1st race starting at 1pm.
Also on TNT2 as usual for those who like to pay to watch

 

[baxlin]

Watched the Sprint race on ITV4 yesterday, these blokes must have no nerves at all, the way they throw themselves around on their bikes.

But did the race become a bit of a procession for the last few laps, even on a flowing track like Silverstone?

Notwithstanding this, I hope to get in front of a suitably tuned TV this afternoon.

 

[Mactech]

It is interesting that the Moto GP guys are about half a minute (!) slower than F1 around Silverstone yet with very comparable top speeds.
Does that mean they are any less spectacular? Is the racing actually less interesting?
I'll let you answer those questions.
Obviously, the high speed turns which makes up most of Silverstone plays directly into hands of the high downforce F1 cars which are spectacular in their own way in the areas of braking and high speed turns.
I remember very well the first time I saw the Williams F007 testing there in 1979. Our workshop almost backed on to the circuit between Club and Abbey and I stood on the bank outside Club and watched these cars defy physics. It was like watching real sized slot cars which you could barely keep your eyes on as they cornered at seemingly impossible speeds.
I love the technologies and racing in both the sports, but also understand that aerodynamics was always going to have a much more profound effect on those on four wheels.

 

[ALFAitalia]

F1 cars are always faster on any track. There have been several programs where they pitted F1 cars against Moto GP bikes...Even giving the bikes a chunky headstart they can't get close the the F1 cars. All the time is lost on the corners. Not so much poor aero as far less mechanical grip.....two tiny (by compassion) rounded tyres with a contact patch about the size of a playing card (with up to 270 horses going through it!) and one wheel drive....versus two wheel drive and four big flat tyres with next to no roll.
According to Mr Google MotoGP bikes have about 1700 horses per ton whereas in F1 it's "only" about 1400!

Just to put that onto perspective....to gain a similar power to weight ratio to an F1 car on a 213 E63s you would need to tune it to 2660 horsepower...yikes.

For info the drag coefficient of a Formula 1 car can range from 0.7 to 1.4, which is higher than the 0.3–0.7 range of a typical road car. But obviously with massive downforce...hence the relatively low top speed for the power. Whereas on the bikes the drag is better at 0.5 to 1.....but downforce is next to nil and in fact would be a hindrance on the corners since bikes don't corner upright to extra downforce (if it was possible) would just increase a bikes propensity to slide.

Under race conditions the top speeds are pretty close. 233 mph on the cars....227 on the bike. I know what it rather be in. I've done about 186 on a bike....three miles a minute is scary.... so 227 mph?.....no thinks!

 

[Mactech]

.....but downforce is next to nil and in fact would be a hindrance on the corners since bikes don't corner upright to extra downforce (if it was possible) would just increase a bikes propensity to slide.

The problem with downforce and bikes is, as you say, they don't stay in one orientation. They have now discovered that aero really can help, but unlike cars they can't just concentrate on the best L/D, but develop different concepts for different things. Whilst some of these are interactive, the top fairing wings work best for anti-wheelie, the rear 'Stegarsausus' fins help smooth the flow and help drag, but it is the side fairing fins which lay parallel to the ground on maximum lean form a ground effect wing and really do add downforce and add grip to the tyres.
The tyres, bikes and riders are still adapting to this form of additional grip afforded by genuine downforce!