Fixed Penalty Point Query

[raymont]

Why should the penalty be greater if you choose to go to court and lose?

The offence is still the same.

Seems like intimidation to me, pay up or we'll hammer you if you decide to defend yourself.

 

[Flash]

It's (touch wood) a few years since I had a FPN but I thought they reverted to a summons automatically if you didn't pay the FPN - I wasn't aware that you needed to take any action?

I think the route one or two other posters are going down is where the Officer fails to correctly identify the driver. Safe Speed Forums • View topic - Driver Identification

Thanks Rory - you have hit the nail on the head.

I have had a word with a Solicitor this morning and unfortunately the Police have six months to get the details correct and can change the details at anytime - only way out would be if we did not here anything for six months which is unlikely though....

my next question is do the Police cross reference every FPN they issue on their carbon printed books or do some slip the system if checked randomly? reason I ask is because I know someone who was issued a FPN for speeding by a traffic car and this person did not surrender his license and he did not hear anything back....

 

[JOB-BLACK-RAT]

Thanks Rory - you have hit the nail on the head.

I have had a word with a Solicitor this morning and unfortunately the Police have six months to get the details correct and can change the details at anytime - only way out would be if we did not here anything for six months which is unlikely though....

my next question is do the Police cross reference every FPN they issue on their carbon printed books or do some slip the system if checked randomly? reason I ask is because I know someone who was issued a FPN for speeding by a traffic car and this person did not surrender his license and he did not hear anything back....

GRRRRR just written loads and lost it when I typed by passwrod back in

In short 'yes', the officer will have written your partners DL details on a sheet at the back of the FPN.

Nobody likes getting caught but if you and your partner really want then go to court remember though your not saying the offence did not happen your saying you think there's a chance the officer put the wrong details on your part of the ticket and his notes.

If you request a court hearing you will get a copy of those notes. On the day if the details in those notes are correct you can change your plea to guilty but expect the penalty to rise.

 

[Pappilo]

You certainly risk an easy three points and 60 squid going diffy from your wallet.

This I understand

You could risk jumping other red lights doing a right turn, perhaps not in your village, if your mind slipped into autonima when driving at night.

Would you be putting lives at risk. Your decision and your consequence to live with forever should you get it wrong.

^ But this . What the hell you on about? .... Automania blah blah blah.

Some of us have functioning brains you know!

 

[Ted]

If I had gone through a red traffic light, and the only consequences were three points and a £60 fine, I would consider myself very lucky (unless the lights appeared to be out of order, and I took the decision to go through them, but I wouldn't do that with a police car behind me).

If I committed a moving traffic offence at this time of year, I would fully expect to be breathalysed. In fact, I would be delighted to know that the police were doing this to drivers who were blatantly breaking the law.

And I have no issue with a Police Officer checking my car over to ensure that it is road legal, and to confirm that I am not a liability to other road users, and that I am not a scumbag who expects to drive without road tax/insurance/MOT.

£60 and three points for running a red light? I think that she got off lightly.

 

[Flash]

GRRRRR just written loads and lost it when I typed by passwrod back in

In short 'yes', the officer will have written your partners DL details on a sheet at the back of the FPN.

Nobody likes getting caught but if you and your partner really want then go to court remember though your not saying the offence did not happen your saying you think there's a chance the officer put the wrong details on your part of the ticket and his notes.

If you request a court hearing you will get a copy of those notes. On the day if the details in those notes are correct you can change your plea to guilty but expect the penalty to rise.

Cannot be bothered with any of that so just going to take the points and pay fine and no doubt the inursance premium will jump which is up for renewal soon -I got a CU80 two years ago and premium has increased on all my policies.

 

[JOB-BLACK-RAT]

This I understand



^ But this . What the hell you on about? .... Automania blah blah blah.

Some of us have functioning brains you know!

Ahhhhhh yes, it's OK when you jump the red light..........it's all the others that do it wrong

 

[JOB-BLACK-RAT]

Cannot be bothered with any of that so just going to take the points and pay fine and no doubt the inursance premium will jump which is up for renewal soon -I got a CU80 two years ago and premium has increased on all my policies.

If it's your partners first 3 insurance should remain the same, but please keep us posted as I have refered to that when at work.

 

[MOCAŠ]

unfortunately the Police have six months to get the details correct and can change the details at anytime

Why is it "unfortunate" that the police have six months to get the details corrected? OK, obviously it means your partner is unlikely to get away with the offence, but surely the fact that a prosecution cannot fail solely due to a clerical error is a good thing. It's the offence that matters; the paperwork is just a record of it, and human error is bound to creep in on occasions. Would you like to see other offenders/criminals getting off on such flimsy technicalities?

As drivers, most of us frequently get away with breaking the law simply through a lack of detection. Even if we are pulled up, unless it's for something quite serious the chances are that we will get a lecture rather than a punishment. If we were issued with a fine and points every time we exceeded the speed limit, I'm pretty sure most of us would have incurred a ban by now. So when we do get caught and fined, be it by police or a camera, it's fair game isn't it?

I'm not trying to be holier than thou about this; it's not so long since I had 9 points on my licence and was driving everywhere on cruise control with the speed limiter set. But equally, I've never tried to wriggle out of a ticket when I've known I was in the wrong.

A question for the OP: Why didn't your partner point out that they'd got her name wrong when she was asked to sign the ticket? This would have saved further administrative costs to put it right after the FPN had been issued. In fact, I wonder if there are any consequences for signing a ticket knowing that the details are incorrect...

To those who believe that ticket should be invalidated by the fact that the named person "doesn't exist", would you also want this to be the case if, say, your insurance company had misspelt your name on your insurance certificate? Or would you expect them to recognise it as a minor error and put it right?

 

[JOB-BLACK-RAT]

Intresting fact:

Drivers dont look at the lights when following traffic flow across the hazzard.

Next time you cross a set think about it and you'll see what I mean!

 

[saorbust]

Two years ago I had a ticket issued to me, all correct. Paid the penalty, produced docs etc.

Paid the penalty notice. Checked bank 7 days later as advised, no debit.

Phoned as per instructions, was told to wait to speak to inspector.

Very tight butt muscles at this point.... but......

Ticket was a duplicate (same serial no. as another one). Therefore technically inadmissable, therefore invalid. I had a written note of apology from the inspector. To this day I still don't quite believe it - but it's true.

You may have a case but speak to a good lawyer.

 

[flango]

In this case the "slip rule" applies and they can spell your name incorrectly, get the date and time wrong but the original ticket still stands.

If you took this to court I can guarantee based on current magistrate guidelines the penalty imposed by them would be a lot more severe, you would also have to defend yourself as no reputable solicitor would take on the case because of the slip rule.

Only one way out and that's pay up and take the points, sorry

 

[Flash]

Why is it "unfortunate" that the police have six months to get the details corrected? OK, obviously it means your partner is unlikely to get away with the offence, but surely the fact that a prosecution cannot fail solely due to a clerical error is a good thing. It's the offence that matters; the paperwork is just a record of it, and human error is bound to creep in on occasions. Would you like to see other offenders/criminals getting off on such flimsly technicalities?

As drivers, most of us frequently get away with breaking the law simply through a lack of detection. Even if we are pulled up, unless it's for something quite serious the chances are that we will get a lecture rather than a punishment. If we were issued with a fine and points every time we exceeded the speed limit, I'm pretty sure most of us would have incurred a ban by now. So when we do get caught and fined, be it by police or a camera, it's fair game isn't it?

I'm not trying to be holier than thou about this; it's not so long since I had 9 points on my licence and was driving everywhere on cruise control with the speed limiter set. But equally, I've never tried to wriggle out of a ticket when I've known I was in the wrong.

A question for the OP: Why didn't your partner point out that they'd got her name wrong when she was asked to sign the ticket? This would have saved further administrative costs to put it right after the FPN had been issued. In fact, I wonder if there are any consequences for signing a ticket knowing that the details are incorrect...

To those who believe that ticket should be invalidated by the fact that named person "doesn't exist", would you also want this to be the case if, say, your insurance company had misspelt your name on your insurance certificate? Or would you expect them to recognise it as a minor error and put it right?

It is unfortunate as Police in my experience let criminals that commit serious non motoring offences get away and from my personal experience justice has not been served on several occasions - I had someone try to run me over in a car park and after the first failed attempt teh idiot tried again over a car parking dispute three weeks ago and I had witnesses but Police did not want to know and have done nothing about it...but that is irrelevant to this. We always abide by the law and have all our cars insured, taxed and MOTed etc.

At the time my partner did not know they had got the incorrect name and signed the ticket to get to our new born baby that was in the car and teh Officer would not let her bring our baby into back of the Panda car. My partner clearly stated her name to the officer when checks were carried out and at no point did she state that her name was what was stated on the FPN!!! So tell me whose fault is that then???? Its certainly not my partner's fault!!!!

Insurance can be invalidated if details are incorrect on the Policy....!!!

In debt recovery legal proceedings on individuals cannot be persued IF the NAME is incorrect on the paperwork/summons so my query was IF the same aplied to a FPN. In the US this does stand with the Police.

 

[flango]

You are absolutely correct to execute any other summons, warrant or writ the name has to be perfectly correct or it does not stand and is not enforceable. Unfortunately the motorist is the soft target and the law was changed some years ago to close what was considered as a loophole.

To me its more a question of education if the cop can't get the details right then he shouldn't be in the job, how difficult is it to spell the name correctly for Gods sake?

But no in this country what do we do we change the law to make up for the incompetence of certain Police Officers, only in the UK !!!!!!!!!!

 

[corned]

I think MOCAS has hit on a good point.

What, exactly, did she sign her name to on the form? If it includes certifying that the above particulars are correct (which I am guessing is a pretty strong bet) then your partner has no chance.

If she did not read what she was signing up to, then I'm afraid no one is going to help you on that one. Read the small print!!!

Yes, it is all very infuriating, but I think the only advice can be to 'man up, cough up, and move on'.

 

[Flash]

Ermmmmmm nope it does not state on the FPN for the Driver to check ANY of the details on the ticket!!!!!

Ermmm IF you read my earlier post above it does state that I am going to "cough up" as you stated and "Move on.....".......

 

[tagnut]

We always abide by the law

Except it sounds in this instance like you want to circumvent it on a technicality. You can't complain that there is no justice and that the police don't deal with crime on the one hand and then try and wriggle out of a traffic offence on the other.

You haven't stated what the impact of this FPN is. If your partner isn't going to lose her licence then we are only talking about 3 points, a fine and possibly a slightly increased insurance premium. This seems perfectly reasonable to me given that she ran a red light.

 

[Flash]

You are absolutely correct to execute any other summons, warrant or writ the name has to be perfectly correct or it does not stand and is not enforceable. Unfortunately the motorist is the soft target and the law was changed some years ago to close what was considered as a loophole.

To me its more a question of education if the cop can't get the details right then he shouldn't be in the job, how difficult is it to spell the name correctly for Gods sake?

But no in this country what do we do we change the law to make up for the incompetence of certain Police Officers, only in the UK !!!!!!!!!!

Thank you - could not agree more.

 

[Flash]

Except it sounds in this instance like you want to circumvent it on a technicality. You can't complain that there is no justice and that the police don't deal with crime on the one hand and then try and wriggle out of a traffic offence on the other.

You haven't stated what the impact of this FPN is. If your partner isn't going to lose her licence then we are only talking about 3 points, a fine and possibly a slightly increased insurance premium. This seems perfectly reasonable to me given that she ran a red light.

There is not always fair justice as criminals get away with practically murder on technicalities and loop holes so why not for once try and use it to our advantage.... BUT as I have now accepted thee is no way out of this situation BUT if there was then believe me for a change I would contest but unfortunately I cant on this occasion.

 

[Ted]

So she ran a red light with a new born baby in the car?