Formula 1, Moto GP, WSB, 2021 Season

[Bellow]

Does anyone really believe if Hamilton had pitted and was behind Verstappen it wouldn't have finished under the safety car?

Nope. Safety car all the way in that scenario

The above two quotes imply favouritism toward MV winning the WDC. Why do you believe that to be so?

Although I previously said that I believed (or wanted to believe) that the restart was to facilitate fireworks - and nothing else - there is a more sinister motivation that has occurred to me. Before I air it, what reason do you suspect whoever influenced Masi's actions had?

 

[pmcgsmurf]

MV's strategy was to do the opposite of what LH did. If LH had pitted then MV would have stayed out and gained track position leaving LH to play catch up and as was demonstrated, that wasn't a winning strategy without Masi's intervention - which Mercedes couldn't have predicted.
As the lead car LH was vulnerable to the 'opposite of what he did' strategy and any attempt to neutralise it sacrifices track position if the pit stop is less than perfect - a chance Mercedes are on the record as not being prepared to take. Mercedes had the perfect strategy for the event being run as it should have been - in accordance with the rule book.
The only justification for Mercedes to be less cautious than it was was if they had known that the restart would have been as it was. And as previously stated, its expectation was it would be as per the rules with either all or no backmarkers un-lapping themselves and the safety car being withdrawn appropriate to that.

I 100% understand about do the opposite.
No explanation for them not bringing the car in after the Red Bull stop, staying in front and being on the same rubber.
We are talking about Lap 36/37 under the VSC where Mercedes seemed to realise they had messed up and were screaming to not go to a full SC.

For me they should have had faith in their pit stop, put the car on the correct (same) tyres and stopped having tunnel vision about track position.

 

[Bellow]

I 100% understand about do the opposite.
No explanation for them not bringing the car in after the Red Bull stop, staying in front and being on the same rubber.
We are talking about Lap 36/37 under the VSC where Mercedes seemed to realise they had messed up and were screaming to not go to a full SC.

For me they should have had faith in their pit stop, put the car on the correct (same) tyres and stopped having tunnel vision about track position.

There was no need for them to do that. MV's stop left him having to gain 0.8s/lap for 20 laps just to catch LH and he wasn't quite achieving that.

 

[ChrisHGTV]

MV's strategy was to do the opposite of what LH did. If LH had pitted then MV would have stayed out and gained track position leaving LH to play catch up and as was demonstrated, that wasn't a winning strategy without Masi's intervention - which Mercedes couldn't have predicted.
As the lead car LH was vulnerable to the 'opposite of what he did' strategy and any attempt to neutralise it sacrifices track position if the pit stop is less than perfect - a chance Mercedes are on the record as not being prepared to take. Mercedes had the perfect strategy for the event being run as it should have been - in accordance with the rule book.
The only justification for Mercedes to be less cautious than it was was if they had known that the restart would have been as it was. And as previously stated, its expectation was it would be as per the rules with either all or no backmarkers un-lapping themselves and the safety car being withdrawn appropriate to that.

Im with you on this one - i thought Mercedes strategy was sound. And lets face it, it was clearly working and should have worked up to the end when the goalposts were moved. For sure RBR took every opportunity to try to swing things in their favour as they were not catching LH throughout the race. They had absolutely nothing to lose, so for them no real gamble to pit etc.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

There was no need for them to do that. MV's stop left him having to gain 0.8s/lap for 20 laps just to catch LH and he wasn't quite achieving that.

At this point Mercedes would have had no idea wether Max would have gained 0.8 or 3 seconds per lap surely?

I still don't see their logic given that a Safety Car at any point could have happened, seems to me they left Lewis out in the cold with no jacket.

 

[Dryce]

No explanation for them not bringing the car in after the Red Bull stop, staying in front and being on the same rubber.

They didn't need to. This was demonstrated by their relative pace afterwards until the Safety Car was deployed at the end.

Stops are not risk free so why take that risk,

 

[st13phil]

The above two quotes imply favouritism toward MV winning the WDC. Why do you believe that to be so?

There have been a number of questionable decisions by the race stewards, technical staff and Masi that have directly benefitted RBR and MV this season, ranging from MV's dubious driving going unchallenged, through the limbo wings fiasco, the debacle that was Spa and now Abu Dhabi. I make no comment as to the motivation for those decisions as I honestly don't know whether there was an agenda or not, but they certainly fuel the conspiracy theorists.

More importantly, I think the inconsistencies and apparent bias has devalued F1 (and, as it's their "halo" championship, by association the FIA) in the eyes of the general public, it's supporters, competitors and sponsors. That is the ultimate "take aim, blow off both feet" act and it really can't just be swept under the carpet.

 

[Dryce]

At this point Mercedes would have had no idea wether Max would have gained 0.8 or 3 seconds per lap surely?

They probably had some idea.

Moreover they would have taken into account that if MV was pushing hard on the new tyres then that would limit the difference. So if he had caught up quicker then he'd be using up his tyres quicker.

 

[ChrisHGTV]

There have been a number of questionable decisions by the race stewards, technical staff and Masi that have directly benefitted RBR and MV this season, ranging from MV's dubious driving going unchallenged, through the limbo wings fiasco, the debacle that was Spa and now Abu Dhabi. I make no comment as to the motivation for those decisions as I honestly don't know whether there was an agenda or not, but they certainly fuel the conspiracy theorists.

More importantly, I think the inconsistencies and apparent bias has devalued F1 (and, as it's their "halo" championship, by association the FIA) in the eyes of the general public, it's supporters, competitors and sponsors. That is the ultimate "take aim, blow off both feet" act and it really can't just be swept under the carpet.

Perhaps we‘re seeing a similar situation emerge as we saw with the whole UCI/Lance Armstrong collusion debacle. Where the governing body ceases to be impartial . In this case perhaps not towards a single competitor but possibly towards Liberty Media.

 

[GeeJayW]

The above two quotes imply favouritism toward MV winning the WDC. Why do you believe that to be so?

Although I previously said that I believed (or wanted to believe) that the restart was to facilitate fireworks - and nothing else - there is a more sinister motivation that has occurred to me. Before I air it, what reason do you suspect whoever influenced Masi's actions had?

IMHO ’the powers that be’ were very keen, even desperate to have a new champion this year.
Changed the aero regulations, froze engine development, imposed budget caps, introduced development tokens, completely new regulations for 2022, etc..

The status quo of Lewis and Mercedes would play less well than a charging Max achieving a ‘David v Goliath’ narrative.

Well, they got what they wanted and a nice juicy controversy to go with it.

 

[Benzowner]

MV and RBR used the rules in their favour and won, but I would suggest it is the rules that need to be changed. Had the last 4 laps been under virtual pace car. MV would not have been allowed to gain and the other 4 cars would have remained in their position. It is daft IMO that someone could build up a nice lead through better driving and having a better car then loose it all if someone else crashes. I have thought this a ridiculous rule for many years.

 

[Spider10]

If that's the case no 1 would watch after lap 1

 

[Bellow]

MV and RBR used the rules in their favour and won, but I would suggest it is the rules that need to be changed. Had the last 4 laps been under virtual pace car. MV would not have been allowed to gain and the other 4 cars would have remained in their position. It is daft IMO that someone could build up a nice lead through better driving and having a better car then loose it all if someone else crashes. I have thought this a ridiculous rule for many years.

I asked about this earlier and the reason for the full SC is precisely to bunch them up, corral them into a tighter group to facilitate clearing the crashed car. That doesn't however diminish the validity of your point where skill is negated with sheer luck - or connivance.

 

[GeeJayW]

MV and RBR used the rules in their favour and won, but I would suggest it is the rules that need to be changed. Had the last 4 laps been under virtual pace car. MV would not have been allowed to gain and the other 4 cars would have remained in their position. It is daft IMO that someone could build up a nice lead through better driving and having a better car then loose it all if someone else crashes. I have thought this a ridiculous rule for many years.

The problem arose because:
a) the race director (and Mercedes) realised that under the correct safety car procedures, there would not be enough laps left to clear up from Lattifi’s incident, let all of the lapped cars unlap themselves, bring the safety car back in and resume racing under a green flag.

b) in order to get back to racing asap, he chose to tell all of the teams that the lapped cars would not be allowed to pass the safety car to unlap themselves (which uses up two laps). Mercedes reasoned that Lewis would still have a good chance of victory as he would have been able to scamper away at the front whilst Max dealt with the ’back markers’.

c) Red Bull knew that with lapped cars between Max and Lewis, their chances of beating Lewis to the line over one racing lap were diminished. They got on the blower to the race director and (for a change) whinged about it, ”this isn’t fair and it’s not the correct procedure, the lapped cars should be cleared out”..“we only need one lap of racing”.. “we all agreed we didn’t want the race and season to end under the safety car”.. etc

d) the race director’s back legs folded under and at the last moment decided to let the lapped cars between Lewis and Max to pass the safety car. He then also instructed that instead of bringing the safety car in on the next (last) lap as per the official process, it should return to the pits on the current lap. Result was no gap between Lewis and Max, some lapped cars remaining between other contenders for the race and Max. Lewis on 40-lap ’cold’ hard tyres was a sitting duck vs Max on newish soft tyres. The race director must have known this otherwise he’s even less qualified to do the job that I thought he was.

It may well be that there was no ‘string pulling’ from behind the scenes, but Mercedes (and Ferrari too) were completely played offside by this series of decisions by the race director. There’s no way Mercedes could have predicted the way this would pan out.

The best outcome for F1 would be
a) get rid of the current race director and find someone who is up to the job.
b) penalise any team and driver via world championship points for badgering the race director during a race.
c) cancel the results from Abu Dhabi. Mercedes still get the Constructors, Max gets the Drivers on race wins.

All IMHO of course.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

This constant moaning at the Race Director is beyond a joke.
I know a lot of folks on here give Red Bull a lot of stick but from what I heard earlier in the race Mercedes were at it too.
This has to stop.

I'm sure Masi is under immense pressure and realy did need some more support in the way of staff like Charlie had.
One wonders if he may also have been getting shouted at from the owners to get the race going again!
Perhaps stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Think we have all analysed this to death now.

Where do Mercedes go now, do they appeal?

I'd think they will back offf given that any appeal has to be heard by the FIA and they cannot for example go to CAS.

 

[Bellow]

One wonders if he may also have been getting shouted at from the owners to get the race going again!

That's what we all want to know. And if so, why.

Perhaps stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Then he needs to step down if he can't take the pressure.

 

[Headhurts]

I was on the phone this morning and on the radio they mentioned this race and that one or more drivers voiced their opinion that the way Massi was going to run the race was unfair and would favour a particular driver, unfortunately although they did name at least one driver and I’m sorry I did not catch whom but I believe more than one driver had spoken up.

Robin

 

[GeeJayW]

This constant moaning at the Race Director is beyond a joke.
I know a lot of folks on here give Red Bull a lot of stick but from what I heard earlier in the race Mercedes were at it too.
This has to stop.

I'm sure Masi is under immense pressure and realy did need some more support in the way of staff like Charlie had.
One wonders if he may also have been getting shouted at from the owners to get the race going again!
Perhaps stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Think we have all analysed this to death now.

Where do Mercedes go now, do they appeal?

I'd think they will back offf given that any appeal has to be heard by the FIA and they cannot for example go to CAS.

Analysing and discussion is not moaning. The race director screwed up.
I have no doubt Mr. Masi has been under immense pressure. Nothing he did on Sunday has relieved any of that. He has dug himself into a hole. Something he has been working on all season long.

Red Bull, Mercedes and possibly others have moaned about every decision this year. Badgering the race director during a race should not be allowed. Driving standards have at times been poor bordering on very dangerous. These things will only be managed back by penalties that are meaningful, ie world championship points deductions.

Mercedes corporate may well appeal. However well intentioned there was a simple breach of contract brought about by Mr. Masi choosing to modify the safety car procedures. That said, they may well drop the appeal on the basis that those that don’t care to get their head around the issues, will see it as Mercedes being sore losers. Further as you say, the FIA are unlikely to punish themselves. T’was ever thus.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

For the record I wanted Kimi to win.

 

[GeeJayW]

For the record I wanted Kimi to win.

I would have loved to see Kimi get another WDC title.