Formula One 2018 - General Thread

[GeeJayW]

Looks like you had a great weekend!

They were saying on TV last night, that Ferrari reverted to the aero package they had earlier in the season, doing away with the 'improvements' introduced for (I think) Singapore. Hey presto! a red car with race pace. Kimi took advantage of that whilst Seb had a scruffy weekend. Having picked an unnecessary (if harsh) grid penalty and again tangled with a fellow competitor, was very lucky to avoid a DNF.

With the season at a stage where the championships are on the brink of being settled, it looks like it may be too little too late for Ferrari, but it's not quite done yet.

 

[Brian k]

I’m not a big Max fan, but he drove the race of the day yesterday.
Mercedes strategists threw the race away and not for the first time in my opinion.
To have a 17s lead and let it dwindle away with abject inertia was just woeful to watch. If there is a gap in the Mercedes team, then strategy is where it’s at.
To hear LH asking (yet again) on the radio “how did that happen guys” says it all for me.

I’m sure LH will win his 5th, but if they had wrapped it up yesterday they could have worked on giving VB some payback sooner.

 

[Mactech]

....and Kimi really does know what he is doing, even if it has taken him 5 years to remember
Apparently he said the race result was 'ok'....

 

[GeeJayW]

....and Kimi really does know what he is doing, even if it has taken him 5 years to remember
Apparently he said the race result was 'ok'....

...and if Seb had been anywhere near the front, Kimi would have somehow forgotten again...

I do like Kimi and he's right, his result yesterday wasn't life changing for him. I like that he doesn't get all excited because some journalist is asking him (for the nth time) how he feels about this or that. It's clear that he enjoys driving the cars, but for him the rest of the show is BS.

 

[bob6600]

Pleased for Kimi, probably his last ever race win but I'm glad he got it.

As for Mercedes, yes they dropped the ball however Lewis had much younger tyres + a considerably faster car than the RB so why couldn't he pass him? I know about dirty air etc but it seemed that he was giving Max too much room and therefore compromising his overtake. When Lewis has had wheel to wheel with Seb or Kimi, they have literally been wheel to wheel and no one 'gets hurt'. It seemed he was scared of Max damaging his car. He even had DRS at one point and couldn't get close enough?

 

[Stratman]

I kept an eye on the gaps during the last quarter of the race. MV chased down KR fairly easily but then stabilised at 1.3s behind, LH chased down MV with similar ease and then stayed at 1.3s. That would seem to be the 'dirty air' distance beyond which you can't go without severely wrecking your tyres as LH discovered towards the end as he went all in trying to pass MV, saying afterwards his tyres were shot.

There was a point before LH's second stop as the gap to KR was reducing at an alarming rate where if they had brought him in they could have still got him out in front of MV but yet again they dithered, he eventually came out behind him and that effectively cost him the points he needed to win it in Austin.

Just a bad day at the office for Mercedes

 

[GeeJayW]

Pleased for Kimi, probably his last ever race win but I'm glad he got it.

As for Mercedes, yes they dropped the ball however Lewis had much younger tyres + a considerably faster car than the RB so why couldn't he pass him? I know about dirty air etc but it seemed that he was giving Max too much room and therefore compromising his overtake. When Lewis has had wheel to wheel with Seb or Kimi, they have literally been wheel to wheel and no one 'gets hurt'. It seemed he was scared of Max damaging his car. He even had DRS at one point and couldn't get close enough?

Lewis didn't really need to be racing Max, so not risking a DNF was probably the best option given the strategy mess-up by MB.

Max, and indeed pretty much everyone, needs to watch how Kimi defended against Lewis earlier in the race. A real masterclass on how to safely and fairly position your car so to spoil the momentum of a much faster top-level car driven by one of the best drivers.

 

[Dryce]

It seemed he was scared of Max damaging his car. He even had DRS at one point and couldn't get close enough?

If you watched the timings then the gap between LH and MV varied quite a bit through the laps in the run up to LH's attempt. I'm guessing that LH was having to deploy electrical power to get within DRS range and suffering front aero disruption and tyre degradtion while MV was saving his electrical power for the straight and getting better traction. MV was also able to benefit from DRS and slipstream off KR which which gave him additional defensive capability while LH had DRS.

So while MV has his (deserved) bad boy reputation - on this occasion I think what we saw was MV using his not inconsiderable startegic driving smarts. Christian Horner seemed very very happy with him. I think that has as much to do with the way MV went about his business at this race as to do with the drive through the field and the podium. MV made the RB look faster than it actually was.

 

[grober]

I’m not a big Max fan, but he drove the race of the day yesterday.
Mercedes strategists threw the race away and not for the first time in my opinion.
To have a 17s lead and let it dwindle away with abject inertia was just woeful to watch. If there is a gap in the Mercedes team, then strategy is where it’s at.
To hear LH asking (yet again) on the radio “how did that happen guys” says it all for me.

I’m sure LH will win his 5th, but if they had wrapped it up yesterday they could have worked on giving VB some payback sooner.

Twas rumoured that Mercedes gambled a bit with their strategy yesterday. The prize being Hamilton winning his 5th world drivers championship in the USA accompanied by lots of publicity in a very lucrative MB market. The calculation being that if it went wrong it merely postponed the win until the next race.

 

[neilrr]

Jesus, whoever MB employ as race strategist needs firing. I'm better than the bloke MB currently have in the role.

 

[Dryce]

Twas rumoured that Mercedes gambled a bit with their strategy yesterday. The prize being Hamilton winning his 5th world drivers championship in the USA accompanied by lots of publicity in a very lucrative MB market. The calculation being that if it went wrong it merely postponed the win until the next race.

Calculated gamble. Poor one with hindsight. It's notable though that they could have brought LH *again* when Kimi eventually pitted and they would have got at least second just by staying behind. So they missed an opportunity there. And then they left LH out too long on his second set of tyres.

What we don't know is whether Ferrari changed their strategy as a result of LH making the early stop. Ferrari were probably planning a 2 stop for KR. Vettel spinning meant that KR's strategy was no longer subjugated to comingbehind SV. It became a defensive strategy to take points from LH. LH going in early gave them the option of trying for the 1 stop and KR stretched his first stint with a competent defence at the end that deleveraged any overall speed advantage LH might have had with the 2 stop by controlling track position.

 

[GeeJayW]

Jesus, whoever MB employ as race strategist needs firing. I'm better than the bloke MB currently have in the role.

Just like everyone in the stands can do a better job than Jose Mourinho right now...

Watching on TV, it looks like MB got their strategy wrong. I thought they would have done better to pit Lewis at the time when he could have come out in 3rd behind VB. It then looked like he would have had decent track position, VB would have let him go through (again) and KR would have again needed to reach into his bag of tricks to defend against Lewis.

It also looks to me that the strategy MB applied to Bottas' race was poor this weekend. He was effectively left high and dry to defend first against Max and the later against Seb.

All easy to say from the comfort of my armchair and without all of the data in hand. I wouldn't want to be an F1 strategist though. Get it right and nobody knows or cares. Get it wrong and everyone is casting you for The Muppet Show!

 

[Dryce]

Jesus, whoever MB employ as race strategist needs firing. I'm better than the bloke MB currently have in the role.

Well we have hindsight.

They were not being stupid.

My guess is they thought on the Ultrasoft that KR wouldn't last long after LH came in. So LH would get the so called undercut and gain track position and be able to draw out a lead in clean air while protecting his tyres. Initially with LH hauling in KR on the softs so quickly it looked like they might well be in control. But. KR didn't come in. LH couldn't get past KR and the softs went off quicker than they expected.

I think KR deserves quite a bit of credit for managing his tyres in the first stint.

 

[Mactech]

Yes, there are many great armchair strategists who (like the press) can get it right with hindsight!

They had next to no running in the dry, the track was 'green' and developed. There was no data for those cars, on that day, in those conditions and at what distance from the cars in front, or indeed how the other teams would interact.

I've spent a great deal of my life on pit walls and been a hero and a muppet (less frequently!)
In fact Ross Brawn was kind enough in his book to credit me with being his introduction to race strategy, which he picked up quite quickly and took it from Sportscar racing to F1.......and it isn't as easy as it looks.

 

[Dryce]

It also looks to me that the strategy MB applied to Bottas' race was poor this weekend. He was effectively left high and dry to defend first against Max and the later against Seb.

VB seemed off the pace in this race regardless of strategy.

There was a comment about Mercedes having to work on the cars before the race. VB may have had a minor issue - then again he seems to have races where he fades out of the big picture and this might have been one of them.

 

[grober]

There was also the issue of the last minute mandate from Pirelli to increase the rear tyre pressures
2018 United States GP: Pirelli orders teams to raise rear tyre pressures
which may have affected Mercedes more than Ferrari on this occassion.
This might also explain why Mercedes were working on their cars last minute before the race?
In football I believe the expression is "moving the goalposts"

 

[Dryce]

This might also explain why Mercedes were working on their cars before the race?

Water pumps changed on both cars apparently. VB's car had a leak.

 

[whitenemesis]

Yes, there are many great armchair strategists who (like the press) can get it right with hindsight!

They had next to no running in the dry, the track was 'green' and developed. There was no data for those cars, on that day, in those conditions and at what distance from the cars in front, or indeed how the other teams would interact.

I've spent a great deal of my life on pit walls and been a hero and a muppet (less frequently!)
In fact Ross Brawn was kind enough in his book to credit me with being his introduction to race strategy, which he picked up quite quickly and took it from Sportscar racing to F1.......and it isn't as easy as it looks.

Or was it always going to be this way, so the DWC would go on, possibly to the end of the season?
Wouldn't be the first time race strategies have be 'modified' to appease the sponsors ...

 

[Dryce]

In fact Ross Brawn was kind enough in his book

That was a strange book. I would have much preferred that it had been proper biographical tome.

 

[Dryce]

Or was it always going to be this way, so the DWC would go on, possibly to the end of the season?
Wouldn't be the first time race strategies have be 'modified' to appease the sponsors ...

Don't think so.

Too much emotion / passion with Mercedes and Ferrari teams at the moment.

And getting the WDC settled in the USA would have been a big event in itself.

I suspect that the organisers were slightly disappointed that LH didn't close it off this weekend.

That was offset for many of the fans (maybe not the wider public) by KR winning the race.