Had a RTA in my truck today...whos at fault

[Dryce]

My common sense says that a car stopped at a traffic light or in a traffic queue is not 'stationary' in the sense that I can overtake it on a solid white line. Instead I should wait patiently behind it until it is ready to start moving again.

Fair enough

However, similarly my common sense also tells me that a bus stopped at a bus stop is not 'stationary' in the sense that I can overtake it on a solid white line. Instead I should wait patiently behind it until it is ready to start moving again.

Disagree. At the point where the bus stops at a bus stop it is no longer making progress. Therefore IM(NV)HO it is unambiguously stationary.

If it is impeding you from making progress you then apply common sense as to whether you think it is going to be stationary for a short time or a long time and decide whether you feel it is prudent to wait or pass given the conditions.

 

[markjay]

Fair enough

Disagree. At the point where the bus stops at a bus stop it is no longer making progress. Therefore IM(NV)HO it is unambiguously stationary.

If it is impeding you from making progress you then apply common sense as to whether you think it is going to be stationary for a short time or a long time and decide whether you feel it is prudent to wait or pass given the conditions.

Well... personally, I would have waited behind the bus.

But said that, even if the manoeuvre does turn out to be legal, there would also be the 'if it is safe to do so' common-sense addendum.

So was it safe to do so on this occasion?

 

[davidjpowell]

Well... personally, I would have waited behind the bus. But said that, even if the manoeuvre does turn out to be legal, there would also be the 'if it is safe to do so' common-sense addendum. So was it safe to do so on this occasion?

Right up to the time that a car decided to drive into the op's lorry....

 

[flango]

I'm inclined to disagree.

High risk compared with what in this situation? Somebody in a car not paying attention pulling out past a bus in a car at speed at 30mph or possibly a bit higher? Somebody in a fast car accelerating hard round the bus? I think that's higher.

It's a high risk situation in the context of carrying out an overtake, there's 2 possible scenarios here which the OP has done I don't know which one but lets consider them both.

The first is a rolling overtake the truck is following a line of traffic up to the bus and continues to follow the flow of traffic around the bus at approx 18 mph. In an HGV there is not enough time to asses all the hazards around you even at 18 mph with a road to the right the highway code and road traffic act is perfectly clear.

167
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road

Second scenario is a stop, asses, overtake manoeuvre. As previously pointed out the truck could not have been expected to wait behind the bus for eternity so the correct course of action with a side road present in the overtake would have been to stop behind the bus, assess all the potential hazards, and then proceed with caution at less than 18 mph, I realise this would still not have prevented the collision but it would have demonstrated that the truck driver took all reasonable precautions before committing to passing the bus.

As regards risk an HGV on a slow overtake is far more high risk than a car travelling at 30 mph, quite simply because the exposure time in the risk zone is longer and being a larger vehicle any collision is likely to result in more damage than 2 vehicles of the same size. A fast accelerating car around the bus is actually the safest scenario (assuming its within the speed limit) any overtake should be done in the minimum amount of time minimising the exposure time in the risk area but of course always considering the safety of those around you.

 

[Dryce]

A fast accelerating car around the bus is actually the safest scenario

Only simplistically in terms of time. But not in terms of surprise, reaction, and potential loss of control within an urban setting. If the HGV rolls through on a sensible assessment then that islso reducing time of exposure.

In a simple world - the HGV waits for the bus indefinitely

In a better world - the bus stop is located so this situation cannot arise

In a practical world?

 

[flango]

In a practical world?

The HGV stops behind the bus to assess the situation identify hazards and risks and then carries out the overtake. Which is exactly what I would have done.

 

[markjay]

What we should also take into account is that an HGV or LVG is wider than other vehicles and will also likely try to keep a greater lateral distance from the bus while overtaking it.

So simply 'following a queue of traffic' at 18MPH while straddling the solid white line will leave far less space for oncoming vehicles than other cars would - and the decision of a driver of a smaller car on whether to overtake or not is very different from that of an HGV or LGV driver.

 

[E55BOF]

Come on, gentlemen; in the real world, the bozo in the Focus was pretty much totally responsible for the accident. I don't suppose any of you have a view on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, do you.....

 

[John Jones Jr]

I don't suppose any of you have a view on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, do you.....

Now that you come to mention it...

 

[flango]

I don't suppose any of you have a view on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, do you.....

I know it only takes one to p!ss on the back of your throat

 

[E270 Owner]

I know it only takes one to p!ss on the back of your throat

Let me fix that for you

I know it only takes one to p!ss on the back of your neck

 

[Dieselman]

My common sense says that a car stopped at a traffic light or in a traffic queue is not 'stationary' in the sense that I can overtake it on a solid white line. Instead I should wait patiently behind it until it is ready to start moving again.

The car is still stationary, you just aren't allowed to overtake due to the traffic light.

Seriously, do you have nothing better to do than analyse EVERY post on this forum. If not, maybe you should see someone.

 

[Dieselman]

What we should also take into account is that an HGV or LVG is wider than other vehicles and will also likely try to keep a greater lateral distance from the bus while overtaking it.

So simply 'following a queue of traffic' at 18MPH while straddling the solid white line will leave far less space for oncoming vehicles than other cars would - and the decision of a driver of a smaller car on whether to overtake or not is very different from that of an HGV or LGV driver.

Mark...STOP.!!

The HGV was in the right, it can take the whole carriageway if required. The car pulling out over the Give Way line was wrong.

I can't imagine what it would be like if you were a Judge at Crown Court.

 

[renault12ts]

^+1.

 

[camerafodder]

+2

 

[davidjpowell]

+3