Hybrids? waste of space.

[st4]

It only works on manual versions. So no good for Mercs where over 905 are auto.

Also, IMO, the BMW system is just to fool the taxman. According to my local dealer, owners all switch it off. How many MINI or Beemer drivers want to go into neutral and have the engine switched off at the traffic lights. There whole life is dedicated to the race from the lights

.

I'll second that.

If you have a Turbo charged car you are meant to idle it for upto 30 secs to let the turbo cool/wind down. How does BMW work this with stop start?

In IAM we were always told to keep the engine running, say you see someone charging towards your rear, you can move the car quickly to avoid a shunt, would BMW's stop start allow for this?

 

[recycled]

with names like bluetec and bluemotion.
should it not be green tec and green motion?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

If you have a Turbo charged car you are meant to idle it for upto 30 secs to let the turbo cool/wind down. How does BMW work this with stop start?

It's good practice to let the turbo cool down but assuming you're not driving the car hard (ie low boost), coast to a stop or brake gently, then a brief pause before the engine switches off should be fine.

Modern turbos tend to be small and lightweight to minimise lag, which should also mean they slow down pretty quickly too due to relatively low momentum.

I wouldn't be suprised though if there's a sensor somewhere which would monitor engine use to overide the cut-off if required. If there isn't one then it would be good to have one - unless that's why they offer the facility to switch it off?

In IAM we were always told to keep the engine running, say you see someone charging towards your rear, you can move the car quickly to avoid a shunt, would BMW's stop start allow for this?

If my understanding is correct, as soon as you dump the clutch it should restart, and you'd need to do that in a car without the system fitted. Might take a split second for engine to catch though.

 

[st4]

It's good practice to let the turbo cool down but assuming you're not driving the car hard (ie low boost), coast to a stop or brake gently, then a brief pause before the engine switches off should be fine.

Modern turbos tend to be small and lightweight to minimise lag, which should also mean they slow down pretty quickly too due to relatively low momentum.

I wouldn't be suprised though if there's a sensor somewhere which would monitor engine use to overide the cut-off if required. If there isn't one then it would be good to have one - unless that's why they offer the facility to switch it off?



If my understanding is correct, as soon as you dump the clutch it should restart, and you'd need to do that in a car without the system fitted. Might take a split second for engine to catch though.

Ah but @ the lights you should leave the car in gear with the clutch depressed so as soon as you see danger, clutch up and your off to safety. With the MB you'd have to dip clutch, take gear then move. All too slow for an emergency manouver.

IIRC I think the engine just cuts out, not so good for diesels. It may also explain the relatively high rate of failure than BMW diesels suffer (the new car with the 2.0d engine with 177bhp has had numerous failures)

 

[glojo]

That no fun buying a sprinter when I want one in a car. Is it similar to the Bimmer or Mini system?

I am aware there are drawbacks in the current Bimmer system, it works only one when you press the clutch it will start the engine automatically and it will not work when the engine is cold.

Straight out of the horse's mouth:

With today’s fuel prices, the cost of refuelling forms a significant part of vehicle ownership costs. The nature of urban driving increases fuel consumption and therefore exhaust / CO2 emissions and running costs. A significant part of this fuel consumption is caused by engines idling whilst stationary in traffic.

The ECO-Start system, available as a factory-fitted option on all Sprinter models with 4-cylinder diesel engines and manual transmission provides an intelligent and low-cost solution to reduce engine idling. ECO-Start offers a simple, no-compromise solution to improving vehicle running costs and environmental impact.
How ECO-Start worksECO-Start is activated by the driver using a control switch on the instrument panel.When the system is active it will automatically stop the engine when the vehicle is stationary, and when certain predefined vehicle conditions are met, after a 2 second waiting period. The engine will automatically restart when the clutch pedal is pressed.

Using the system saves fuel, and cuts vehicle emissions, noise and engine wear. In an urban environment the savings can be substantial: depending on driving style and traffic density, fuel consumption can be cut by as much as 10%*, allowing the ECO-Start option to pay for itself and offer further savings throughout the vehicle’s lifespan.

Is it safe to shut off the engine?ECO-Start's safety features *** The fuel savings possible with ECO-Start will depend on operation and driving style, vehicle specification and weight.

** Is it safe to shut off the engine
Safety is provided by sophisticated electronics.

If the vehicle starts to move, the engine is started to ensure that servo assistance for the steering and brakes is maintained. In all other cases the engine does not re-start until the clutch pedal is fully depressed.

If the battery voltage is low or if an attempt by the system to start the engine has failed, the ECO-Start function is deactivated.

In addition, the system’s safety logic checks whether the bonnet is closed to make sure that no one can be injured if the engine suddenly starts.

To avoid cold starts and also overheating, the system only operates at coolant temperatures of between 40°C and 100°C.

The comfort of the vehicle’s occupants is also taken into account: when the outside temperature is below freezing point, the engine is not switched off.

 

[wallingd]

So if the vehicle is moved by another vehicle ramming up the rear end @ 30mph, the engine starts...

Wow just think of all the polar bears that will save.

 

[Dragon]

Probably doesn't work when the engine is cold to protect the engine against premature wear. Surely a good thing?

Didn't understand what it got to do with engine wear? Either it works or not or the technology not up scratch.

 

[Dragon]

It's good practice to let the turbo cool down but assuming you're not driving the car hard (ie low boost), coast to a stop or brake gently, then a brief pause before the engine switches off should be fine.

Modern turbos tend to be small and lightweight to minimise lag, which should also mean they slow down pretty quickly too due to relatively low momentum.

I wouldn't be suprised though if there's a sensor somewhere which would monitor engine use to overide the cut-off if required. If there isn't one then it would be good to have one - unless that's why they offer the facility to switch it off?



If my understanding is correct, as soon as you dump the clutch it should restart, and you'd need to do that in a car without the system fitted. Might take a split second for engine to catch though.

Do we need to know what under the bonnet to drive a car? If it does then, it will exclude all women. Either it works or it doesn't then don't fit it in there.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Didn't understand what it got to do with engine wear? Either it works or not or the technology not up scratch.

The engine suffers wear most when running cold, and hence why modern cars take steps to heat up as quickly as possible, eg holding the gears longer following a cold start.

The first few turns of the engine are the very worst as engine will have drained back down to the sump whilst the engine wasn't running, which means some components will not be as well protected as they might otherwise be.

Cold engine oil - even modern synthetics to a lesser degree - are also slightly more viscous when cold, and hence offer less protection than when it's at it's optimum operating temperature.

Therefore if the engine keeps cutting out when the car is stationary it will take longer for the engine to warm up (increasing wear), and it will repeatedly re-start from rest (increasing wear), using engine oil which is not operating at it's optimum temperature (increasing wear).

Other reasons for the stop-start systme not operating when the engine is cold will be related to emissions. The catalysts must warm up before they're effective, and hence it's important that they heat up as quickly as possinble to improve emissions. Of course if the engine keeps stopping it will take longer for the catalysts to get up to temperature.

For these and other reasons, BMW probably built in the automatic overide which prevents the system operating when the engine is cold.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Do we need to know what under the bonnet to drive a car?

That's why I said this, to protect the car regardless of the driver's understanding or mechanical sympathy:

I wouldn't be suprised though if there's a sensor somewhere which would monitor engine use to overide the cut-off if required. If there isn't one then it would be good to have one - unless that's why they offer the facility to switch it off?

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If it does then, it will exclude all women.

 

[Dragon]

If it doesn't work, back to the drawing board.

Turbo lag went back to the drawing board and came back with smaller biturbo and it works so does compressor.

 

[kjj90210]

In my humble opinion; Hybrids are no “greener” than a regular car of similar engine size.

The manufacturers are using the controversial "green" issue as hype to sell these cars.

There is still the recycling issue of these cars. I am sure they will contain a lot more components than a standard car, more plastics, more lead etc…

Just bring back hydro powered engines and put the greedy fuel companies out of business, but then again the greedy government will implement a water tax, I can't wait for the fresh air tax.

 

[Dragon]

Merc are thinking of bring out BlueTech Hybrid as featured in Merc TV.

Merc are still behind Bimmer in efficient engines. Bimmer already got it now while Merc said it going to be 2010.

 

[stevesey]

Merc are thinking of bring out BlueTech Hybrid as featured in Merc TV.

Merc are still behind Bimmer in efficient engines. Bimmer already got it now while Merc said it going to be 2010.

Aren't they out in US/California already?

Edit: ah No - just plain Bluetecs, not Hybrids.

 

[ibrar]

From watching South Park........don't Hybrid's create 'smug'?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CxVxzXCbeOw

 

[Dragon]

According to Merc no. But if you don't pay them £1,000 for service yes.

 

[hawk20]

According to Merc no. But if you don't pay them £1,000 for service yes.

That's ridiculous. The last two services on my S class were only £235 inc vat and £444 inc vat. Those two were 15,000 miles apart so for 30,000 miles that is little more than 2p per mile. The small change of motoring. And with fullMBSH you get MobiloLife -free breakdown cover and 30 year rust guarantee. Given that the AA want £150 per year to cover me and my wife and another £100 for Euro cover, I think it is good value. Other jobs like brakes, exhausts etc etc can be done elsewhere.

Older cars over 3 years old get pretty good discounts on servicing nowadays from almost all MB dealers.