Hybrids? waste of space.

[Dryce]

The BMW M3 has a simple brake energy regeneration system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF8CkwYxt_Y

Sounds like pithy marketing.

No figures at all on the savings or any braking effects?

 

[big x]

Sounds like pithy marketing.

No figures at all on the savings or any braking effects?

Depending on the model your looking at a 3% reduction in fuel consumption.
It's also slated for F1 in 2009.
http://www.green-car-guide.com/news/brake-energy-new-bmw-5-series.htm

adam

 

[Dryce]

Depending on the model your looking at a 3% reduction in fuel consumption.
It's also slated for F1 in 2009.
http://www.green-car-guide.com/news/brake-energy-new-bmw-5-series.htm

"in combination with other technologies".

I think the brake regeneration thing is for headlines and the boring evolutionary stuff actually delivers (if at all).

 

[glojo]

What about costing and rliability\servicing for this latest BMW technology. All well and good installing extra bits but if it costs £5 to install and we only save £4. At the moment I am not seeing any hybrid that appears viable?

Regards
John

 

[big x]

"in combination with other technologies".

I think the brake regeneration thing is for headlines and the boring evolutionary stuff actually delivers (if at all).

No, it says quote:

"In isolation, it provides an average three per cent reduction in fuel consumption and emissions."

If you have facts to hand that say otherwise please post them.

adam

 

[Dryce]

"In isolation, it provides an average three per cent reduction in fuel consumption and emissions."

If you have facts to hand that say otherwise please post them

No. You're right, I missed this for some reason.

But I still don't believe the number of 3% as quoted.

 

[Dieselman]

I would have tought 3% would be fairly easily achievable as to stop a mass the same amount of energy is expelled as to make it move from rest, so if the car is braking for 3% of the time then there should be a saving of approximately 3%, not to mention the reduction of servicing of brake components.

 

[Dryce]

I would have tought 3% would be fairly easily achievable as to stop a mass the same amount of energy is expelled as to make it move from rest, so if the car is braking for 3% of the time then there should be a saving of approximately 3%, not to mention the reduction of servicing of brake components.

Yes - if that's the way it was working. But they don't give that impression and I think they're being careful with words.

The question I think is - how much energy can they extract *and store* using this setup. 3% just sounds too high in the real world.

 

[hawk20]

Yes - if that's the way it was working. But they don't give that impression and I think they're being careful with words.

The question I think is - how much energy can they extract *and store* using this setup. 3% just sounds too high in the real world.

I can't understand why you all feel 3% is so great. On an ML doing 30mpg, for example, the figure of 3% saving in fuel would amount to only 1 mile per gallon. A mere bagatelle. Not worth crossing the street for. Or as the Americans say it only amounts to point two noughts bugger all.

 

[grober]

Electric cars

Small article on completely electric cars here.http://cars.uk.msn.com/greenmotoring/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4691871

 

[BonzoDog]

Small article on completely electric cars here.http://cars.uk.msn.com/greenmotoring/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4691871

and another anorak special http://www.batteryvehiclesociety.org.uk/wordpress/

 

[big x]

I can't understand why you all feel 3% is so great. On an ML doing 30mpg, for example, the figure of 3% saving in fuel would amount to only 1 mile per gallon. A mere bagatelle. Not worth crossing the street for. Or as the Americans say it only amounts to point two noughts bugger all.

Because numerous small increases in efficiency all add up,for example the change to electric water pumps reduces frictional losses.
In the German tyre tests frictional measurements are made and the difference between makes in the same class are large.Another 5% gain can be made buying tyres with low rolling resistance.

adam

 

[Dryce]

I can't understand why you all feel 3% is so great. On an ML doing 30mpg, for example, the figure of 3% saving in fuel would amount to only 1 mile per gallon. A mere bagatelle. Not worth crossing the street for. Or as the Americans say it only amounts to point two noughts bugger all.

I think 3% is worthwhile. As said elsewhere everything adds up.

 

[hawk20]

I think 3% is worthwhile. As said elsewhere everything adds up.

I have never doubted that. I merely wondered why you have said you don't believe they can save 3%. Sounds tiny enough to be pretty easy to save to me.

 

[hawk20]

Here's a recent news item: -

China is now the world's biggest emitter of carbon dioxide, surpassing America for the first time, according to new research.
CO2 emissions from China, which is building around two coal-fired power stations a month, passed those of the US by eight per cent in 2006, preliminary estimates by the Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency stated.
Greenpeace UK said responsibility for the country's soaring emissions lay not just in Beijing but also in Washington, Brussels and Tokyo as the West had moved its manufacturing base to China.
John Ashton, a leading climate change official from the Foreign Office, said developed nations needed to convince the Far East country that it did not have to make a choice between "prosperity and protecting the climate''.
Mr Ashton, speaking to the BBC following a recent trip to China, said: "We need to convince China that they don't have to make a choice between prosperity and protecting the climate. We need to help them towards a low-carbon future.

 

[Dryce]

I have never doubted that. I merely wondered why you have said you don't believe they can save 3%. Sounds tiny enough to be pretty easy to save to me.

Because 3% is just electrical, and the energy recovery is just in the braking phase (though one might add that there is presumably energy saving on cruise if they manage to disconnectv the alternator all the time).

My suspicion is that the 3% won't work on long journeys with no braking.

It probably will work in suburban driving.

The 3% probably is measured optimally on one of the official cycles.

Call me a skeptical old cynic.

 

[hawk20]

No. You're right, I missed this for some reason.

But I still don't believe the number of 3% as quoted.

But why? It is tiny. You are talking a saving of 1 or 2 mpg. Hardly worth crossing the street for.

 

[grober]

But why? It is tiny. You are talking a saving of 1 or 2 mpg. Hardly worth crossing the street for.

Because it reduces the CO2 gms/kilometer for certain models it can alter the licencing category for "borderline models" which will save a bit of money also. Cant find the recent thread that discussed this at the moment.

 

[SilverSaloon]

Batteries in hybrids are effectively recharged using a petrol powered generator, there are no plug-in hybrids yet. If you drive around at 30mph in your hybrid for more than about an hour the battery will go flat and the car will switch to conventional petrol power until the battery has sufficient charge in it. Want to charge the batteries up? You need to visit a petrol station.

are you sure? my friend has just bought a prius. they (apparently) drive at 28mph as much as possible on just the battery - they reckon the battery charges itself (through motion) and therefore, in theory, never need to use petrol. she only really drives around town. maybe 5 mins motorway aswell. i'm not 100% convinced

 

[hawk20]

are you sure? my friend has just bought a prius. they (apparently) drive at 28mph as much as possible on just the battery - they reckon the battery charges itself (through motion) and therefore, in theory, never need to use petrol. she only really drives around town. maybe 5 mins motorway aswell. i'm not 100% convinced

Einstein will tell her that you don't get owt for nowt. Whatever energy is being expended in moving can only come from the petrol.

The mpg figures for hybrids are completely phoney because they can start the test with the batteries fully charged -ignoring the petrol consumed in doing the charging.

Yes it charges when you go downhill -but you have to go uphill first.

Yes it charges when you slow down -but you have to get up to speed first. All energy comes from somewhere. There is no such thing as a free lunch.