IIRC , his encounter en route to Glojo's GTG with the attractive WPC was due to him doing 100 , or very close to it , on the deserted M6 late at night or early hours - so I thought quite relevant to your post
Increase Speed Limits - Online Petition
IIRC , his encounter en route to Glojo's GTG with the attractive WPC was due to him doing 100 , or very close to it , on the deserted M6 late at night or early hours - so I thought quite relevant to your post
D
Deleted member 6183
Guest
IIRC , his encounter en route to Glojo's GTG with the attractive WPC was due to him doing 100 , or very close to it , on the deserted M6 late at night or early hours - so I thought quite relevant to your post
You can shrug your shoulders all you like, you were referring to someone being banned for doing 138mph in relation to my claim that I don't feel any fear of being caught for speeding at UP TO 100mph on an empty motorway at night.
I really cannot be ****d to trawl back over posts from years ago but I am convinced that the same person was done at OVER 100mph at night on a quiet motorway and was told that had he stayed below 100 he would have just had a warning.
I really shouldn't be answering to you on this as it even sounds petty to myself, please stop arguing just for the sake of being heard because it comes across as pontificating.
It's 500+ hp actually. One of my first cars was a single turbo Toyota Supra kicking out over double that figure.
If we're going to start talking engine outputs , I've driven steam locomotives which develop over 20,000 lb/ft torque and hp in the thousands
I know there are other members here with comparable statistics ...
Giantvanman
MB Enthusiast
Quite right. There are periodic reviews of the HC and RTA but invariably either it is thought changes are not necessary (for a myriad of reasons) or they have yet to find a better alternative.
When I say "better alternative" I mean in terms of inclusion, taking account of the most and least capable of us. What we have is aimed at the average, I would suggest, and like most aspects of life, those that are better at a given task are 'held back' because of the below average.
Don't misunderstand me, I would re-write the HC in a heartbeat if given the opportunity BUT only certain aspects of it; the rest is a pretty good balance, IMO. However, I will admit to a degree of hubris in believing I could re-write parts of the HC and selfish because of the parts I personally think are out-dated or wrong for what I see.
That is why these things are looked at by committee or board and not by an individual.
I wasn't looking for argument or confrontation , still am not .
I can't be bothered trawling back either ; my recollection is that the speed was around 100 , at most only marginally above - in reality , if you got pulled anywhere in the vicinity of that speed the outcome would depend on the circumstances , the mood of the officer(s) , how you address yourself to them , and any number of other factors .
Local guidelines vary , but generally over 80 will get you a fixed penalty and ( IIRC ) 96 upwards is a summons , and that's assuming no other aggravating factors .
Sometimes , if the road is empty , and you seem to be driving otherwise well enough , the officer might decide not to bother with you ; on the other hand , he might be bored out of his skull , or earlier had to attend something nasty , and you would be just what he was waiting for ....
Well this is a car forum after all... Locomotives are unfortunately not automobiles!Pontoneer said:If we're going to start talking engine outputs , I've driven steam locomotives which develop over 20,000 lb/ft torque and hp in the thousands
fab1975
Active Member
One of the arguments used by many who are in favour of keeping the current speed limits is that although technology has improved, the average reaction times of human beings has not.
However, many modern cars are already fitted with devices that can alert the driver in case of potential danger and even take over if an immediate collision scenario is actually detected. For instance, one of the reasons for me to choose the C class over its rivals was the presence of the Driving Assistance Package, which has already proven itself very useful on a couple of occasions.
If we think about it, right now on this very forum we are already having a nice and civilised debate on whether speed limits can be reviewed, with good arguments from both sides. Personally I would not consider outrageous if the government decided to promote an unbiased and independent study to see if speed limits that have been set over 40 years ago (before some of us were even born) are still 100% appropriate.
At the end of the day, only dogmas and basic human rights can never be discussed ;-)
However, many modern cars are already fitted with devices that can alert the driver in case of potential danger and even take over if an immediate collision scenario is actually detected. For instance, one of the reasons for me to choose the C class over its rivals was the presence of the Driving Assistance Package, which has already proven itself very useful on a couple of occasions.
If we think about it, right now on this very forum we are already having a nice and civilised debate on whether speed limits can be reviewed, with good arguments from both sides. Personally I would not consider outrageous if the government decided to promote an unbiased and independent study to see if speed limits that have been set over 40 years ago (before some of us were even born) are still 100% appropriate.
At the end of the day, only dogmas and basic human rights can never be discussed ;-)
A little bit of history which may be of interest - from Wikipedia ( that irrefutable source )
1945–1969[edit]
On 1 October 1956, the 30 mph (48 km/h) speed limit for built-up areas became permanent under the Road Traffic Act 1956. The speed limit, introduced on a trial basis in 1935, had relied on being renewed by Parliament each year.[50] The maximum speed limit for goods vehicles was raised from 20 mph (32 km/h) to 30 mph (48 km/h) in 1957.[51]
Following a series of serious motorway multiple crashes in the fog in 1965, Tom Fraser, the then Minister of Transport, following consultations in early November with the police and with the National Road Safety Advisory Council (NRSAC), concluded that the crashes were caused by vehicles travelling too fast for the prevailing conditions. The NRSAC advised that a 20 mph (32 km/h) motorway speed limit should be imposed on motorway stretches affected by fog and that a general speed limit of 70 mph (113 km/h) should be experimentally applied for the winter months.[52]
On 25 November 1965 the government announced that a temporary 30 mph (48 km/h) speed limit would be applied to sections of motorway (there were 350 miles (560 km) of it at that time) affected by fog, ice or snow and that a general maximum speed limit of 70 mph (113 km/h) would be applied to all otherwise unrestricted roads, including motorways, for a trial period of four months starting just before Christmas.[11] The four-month trial 70 mph (113 km/h) speed limit on 100,000 miles (160,000 km) of previously unrestricted roads and motorways was introduced at noon on 22 December 1965.[53] Also on that day, the power for the police to apply advisory speed limits of 30 mph (48 km/h) to motorways affected by bad weather was also introduced. The advisory limit was activated by the use of flashing amber lights placed at 1 mile (1.6 km) intervals along the motorways.[53]
In April 1966 Barbara Castle, the new Minister of Transport, decided to extend the experimental 70 mph (113 km/h) limit for a further two months to allow the Road Research Laboratory (RRL) time to collect data as there was still no conclusive evidence of its effectiveness.[54] In May 1966 Barbara Castle extended the experimental period by a further fifteen months to 3 September 1967 as "the case is not proven" but there were signs of crash rate reduction.[55]
In July 1966 the speed limit for "public service vehicles" (notably buses) was raised from 40 mph (64 km/h) to 50 mph (80 km/h).[56] During 1966, the highest number of fatalities during peacetime at 7,985 deaths, was recorded.[n 8]
In July 1967, Castle announced that 70 mph (113 km/h) was to become the permanent maximum speed limit for all roads and motorways. She had accepted RRL evidence that the speed limit had reduced the number of casualties on motorways. She ruled out minimum speed limits for motorways which would also reduce the danger of slow traffic as being too difficult to enforce and likely to increase congestion off the motorways.
The two major motoring organisations at the time, The Automobile Association and the R.A.C. welcomed the maximum speed limits for all-purpose roads, but the R.A.C. would have preferred more flexibility for motorways. The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents suggested that a lower speed limit would be more appropriate for all-purpose roads and the Pedestrian's Association for Road Safety condemned the new limits as being too high, preferring 60 mph (97 km/h) limits for all roads.[57] Castle's decision and acceptance of the RRL research at face value was controversial. Peter Walker's motion in Parliament to annul the speed limit on motorways was negatived.[58]
1973 oil crisis[edit]
Due to the 1973 oil crisis, a temporary maximum national speed limit of 50 mph (80 km/h) for all roads, including motorways, was introduced on 8 December 1973.[16] The 70 mph (113 km/h) limit was restored on motorways in March 1974 and on all other roads on 8 May 1974.[59]
As an initiative to reduce energy consumption, the national speed limits for otherwise unrestricted single-carriageway and dual-carriageway roads were temporarily reduced to 50 mph (80 km/h) and 60 mph (97 km/h) respectively (motorway speed limits were left unchanged at 70 mph (113 km/h)) from 14 December 1974.[60] In November 1976 the temporary speed limits were extended at least until the end of May 1977.[61] In April 1977, the government announced that the national speed limits for single-carriageway roads was to be increased to 60 mph (97 km/h) and that the 70 mph (113 km/h) speed limit was to be restored on dual-carriageways on 1 June 1977.[62][63]
1977–present[edit]
A speed limiter requirement for mopeds was introduced in 1977, with the speed cap being progressively redefined from 35 mph (56 km/h), to 30 mph (48 km/h), back up to 50 km/h (31 mph) and finally to 45 km/h (28 mph) in the late 2000s.[n 2]
The 70 mph (113 km/h) speed limit was made permanent in 1978.[n 11]
The Road Traffic Regulation Act, which was passed in 1984, includes legislation relating to speed limits. Part VI of the Act[64] defines the default speed limit for 'regularly'-lit roads,[65] gives local authorities powers to create 'speed limit orders', and exempts emergency vehicles from speed limits; the Act also defines speeding offences.[66]
The first 20 mph (32 km/h) speed limits for residential areas were introduced in 1991[n 12] and then speed limiters for buses and coaches set at 65 mph (105 km/h) and also for HGVs set at 56 mph (90 km/h) in 1994.[n 1] It was made easier for local authorities to introduce a 20 mph (32 km/h) limit in 1999.[67]
In March 2009 the government consulted on reducing speed limits on rural roads on which 52% of fatalities had occurred in the previous year to 50 mph. They explained that 'crashes were more likely on rural parts of the road network, upon most of which the national speed limit of 60 mph applies'. The Conservative opposition party and the AA were both opposed. The president of the AA said that speed limits that are too low can result in a greater number of accidents and that a "blanket reduction of speed limits would not make roads safer, given that many accidents on rural roads involved only one car".[68]
In February 2010 the Department for Transport proposed that the speed limit for all road vehicles able to carry more than 8 people should be set at 65 mph.[69]
In April 2015 the speed limit for Heavy Goods Vehicles over 7.5t was increased on dual carriage ways from 50mph to 60mph.[70]
1945–1969[edit]
On 1 October 1956, the 30 mph (48 km/h) speed limit for built-up areas became permanent under the Road Traffic Act 1956. The speed limit, introduced on a trial basis in 1935, had relied on being renewed by Parliament each year.[50] The maximum speed limit for goods vehicles was raised from 20 mph (32 km/h) to 30 mph (48 km/h) in 1957.[51]
Following a series of serious motorway multiple crashes in the fog in 1965, Tom Fraser, the then Minister of Transport, following consultations in early November with the police and with the National Road Safety Advisory Council (NRSAC), concluded that the crashes were caused by vehicles travelling too fast for the prevailing conditions. The NRSAC advised that a 20 mph (32 km/h) motorway speed limit should be imposed on motorway stretches affected by fog and that a general speed limit of 70 mph (113 km/h) should be experimentally applied for the winter months.[52]
On 25 November 1965 the government announced that a temporary 30 mph (48 km/h) speed limit would be applied to sections of motorway (there were 350 miles (560 km) of it at that time) affected by fog, ice or snow and that a general maximum speed limit of 70 mph (113 km/h) would be applied to all otherwise unrestricted roads, including motorways, for a trial period of four months starting just before Christmas.[11] The four-month trial 70 mph (113 km/h) speed limit on 100,000 miles (160,000 km) of previously unrestricted roads and motorways was introduced at noon on 22 December 1965.[53] Also on that day, the power for the police to apply advisory speed limits of 30 mph (48 km/h) to motorways affected by bad weather was also introduced. The advisory limit was activated by the use of flashing amber lights placed at 1 mile (1.6 km) intervals along the motorways.[53]
In April 1966 Barbara Castle, the new Minister of Transport, decided to extend the experimental 70 mph (113 km/h) limit for a further two months to allow the Road Research Laboratory (RRL) time to collect data as there was still no conclusive evidence of its effectiveness.[54] In May 1966 Barbara Castle extended the experimental period by a further fifteen months to 3 September 1967 as "the case is not proven" but there were signs of crash rate reduction.[55]
In July 1966 the speed limit for "public service vehicles" (notably buses) was raised from 40 mph (64 km/h) to 50 mph (80 km/h).[56] During 1966, the highest number of fatalities during peacetime at 7,985 deaths, was recorded.[n 8]
In July 1967, Castle announced that 70 mph (113 km/h) was to become the permanent maximum speed limit for all roads and motorways. She had accepted RRL evidence that the speed limit had reduced the number of casualties on motorways. She ruled out minimum speed limits for motorways which would also reduce the danger of slow traffic as being too difficult to enforce and likely to increase congestion off the motorways.
The two major motoring organisations at the time, The Automobile Association and the R.A.C. welcomed the maximum speed limits for all-purpose roads, but the R.A.C. would have preferred more flexibility for motorways. The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents suggested that a lower speed limit would be more appropriate for all-purpose roads and the Pedestrian's Association for Road Safety condemned the new limits as being too high, preferring 60 mph (97 km/h) limits for all roads.[57] Castle's decision and acceptance of the RRL research at face value was controversial. Peter Walker's motion in Parliament to annul the speed limit on motorways was negatived.[58]
1973 oil crisis[edit]
Due to the 1973 oil crisis, a temporary maximum national speed limit of 50 mph (80 km/h) for all roads, including motorways, was introduced on 8 December 1973.[16] The 70 mph (113 km/h) limit was restored on motorways in March 1974 and on all other roads on 8 May 1974.[59]
As an initiative to reduce energy consumption, the national speed limits for otherwise unrestricted single-carriageway and dual-carriageway roads were temporarily reduced to 50 mph (80 km/h) and 60 mph (97 km/h) respectively (motorway speed limits were left unchanged at 70 mph (113 km/h)) from 14 December 1974.[60] In November 1976 the temporary speed limits were extended at least until the end of May 1977.[61] In April 1977, the government announced that the national speed limits for single-carriageway roads was to be increased to 60 mph (97 km/h) and that the 70 mph (113 km/h) speed limit was to be restored on dual-carriageways on 1 June 1977.[62][63]
1977–present[edit]
A speed limiter requirement for mopeds was introduced in 1977, with the speed cap being progressively redefined from 35 mph (56 km/h), to 30 mph (48 km/h), back up to 50 km/h (31 mph) and finally to 45 km/h (28 mph) in the late 2000s.[n 2]
The 70 mph (113 km/h) speed limit was made permanent in 1978.[n 11]
The Road Traffic Regulation Act, which was passed in 1984, includes legislation relating to speed limits. Part VI of the Act[64] defines the default speed limit for 'regularly'-lit roads,[65] gives local authorities powers to create 'speed limit orders', and exempts emergency vehicles from speed limits; the Act also defines speeding offences.[66]
The first 20 mph (32 km/h) speed limits for residential areas were introduced in 1991[n 12] and then speed limiters for buses and coaches set at 65 mph (105 km/h) and also for HGVs set at 56 mph (90 km/h) in 1994.[n 1] It was made easier for local authorities to introduce a 20 mph (32 km/h) limit in 1999.[67]
In March 2009 the government consulted on reducing speed limits on rural roads on which 52% of fatalities had occurred in the previous year to 50 mph. They explained that 'crashes were more likely on rural parts of the road network, upon most of which the national speed limit of 60 mph applies'. The Conservative opposition party and the AA were both opposed. The president of the AA said that speed limits that are too low can result in a greater number of accidents and that a "blanket reduction of speed limits would not make roads safer, given that many accidents on rural roads involved only one car".[68]
In February 2010 the Department for Transport proposed that the speed limit for all road vehicles able to carry more than 8 people should be set at 65 mph.[69]
In April 2015 the speed limit for Heavy Goods Vehicles over 7.5t was increased on dual carriage ways from 50mph to 60mph.[70]
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Just to clarify *** driving ban (he wasn't doing 150mph...)
Mercedes-Benz Owners' Forums - View Single Post - 150mph Merc driver jailed
140MPH on the M1 nasty outcome
M1 Crash: The '140mph death race' that killed two | Daily Mail Online
M1 Crash: The '140mph death race' that killed two | Daily Mail Online
Well there are reasons that it is still a reasonable limit today.
My recollection is the motorways were much emptier and free flowing. We didn't seem to encounter sudden queues of stopped traffic as frequently as we do today - and cars accelerated less quickly so there was less 'jostling' in denser traffic.
Ahhhhhhh - the good old days - when a 0-60 under 14 seconds was considered to be quick.
... when Edinburgh to Swiss Cottage was never more than five and a half hours* and Edinburgh to Dingwall was an easy two hours.
* One time in a beige Morris Marina 1.8 TC with five aboard
There's no AMG could do that nowadays.
Bellow
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
... when Edinburgh to Swiss Cottage was never more than five and a half hours* and Edinburgh to Dingwall was an easy two hours.
* One time in a beige Morris Marina 1.8 TC with five aboard
There's no AMG could do that nowadays.
Exactly.
OP is banging on about how cars have improved since the introduction of the 70mph limit and ignores completely the massive increase in the number of cars now on the road. On an empty road phenomenal average speeds were achievable with cars of very modest power. On crowded roads all 500hp can do for you is bring you onto the tail of the next dawdler. There's no turning the clock back. Congestion (and a lack of willingness to take pride in driving) have conspired to make the 50 year old limits still valid despite the advances made in car safety.
More to the point, instead of looking backward we'd do better to look forward - to a time where the future will be electric. We are waiting for battery technology to improve, but even when it does, the nature of recharging and the rapidly rising energy requirement at higher speed will (still) curtail high top speeds in deference to range - as is already the case with current EVs. So, what point in raising limits if they will be dint of the technology we will be using unusable (over prolonged distance)?
Long before advocating higher NSLs we need a system of retesting drivers for competence at the wheel. It is bad enough at the current speeds to have some numpty stray into one's path - wholly worse at higher speeds.
Talking of which, when accidents do occur, bigger speed means bigger bang means bigger mess. Any time saving will be wiped out over a year due to the constantly closed M.Ways on account of an accident where a fatality has occurred and the forensic crew will take a week if it suits them to collect their evidence. As Dryce earlier alluded, slower but predictable consistent travel is of more use.
Bottom line: lots here would love to see higher NSLs but are aware that neither the roads or the bulk of the motoring population are up to the task. Get used to it - Britain is no longer a place where high speed road travel is possible. Driving at 10mph faster than before just to reach the next traffic jam sooner - where's the point? And we are never going to be permitted to drive at the speed we really want.
If you genuinely want improved road safety, campaign for driver retesting and a review of all phone use while in motion. If you merely want to stretch the legs of your hot rod - that's up to you but the risks from other road users and of heavy judicial sanction awaits. The law isn't going to change to permit it.
Thank you for the thorough note. I'm pretty sure I had alluded to my desire to reform the legislation in its entirety a number of times throughout this thread? Increasing motorway speeds is just a spoke on the wheel. As previously stated, the title was only meant to catch attention - and it has done just that!Bellow said:
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ckember
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It's got 11 sponsors and been posted online, now to get to 10000 sponsors so the government have to respond, and then 100000 to be debated.
John Jones Jr
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Note? Monologue more like. There's nothing in it, all plain & obvious stuff bar of course implying that all of the U.K.'s motorway network is clogged up 24/7/365, which of course it's not. Take that fact into account and there's nothing in the post at all. The really sad bit is, one can nearly smell the delight emanating from the post that the limit is seventy.
D
Deleted member 6183
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I bet David Cameron is mulling over this very subject , having been alerted to the persuasive petition to increase speed limits, while enjoying his fish fingers and baked beans this tea time.
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Indeed , I remember the incident which led to his ban ; there was an earlier incident , when he was on his way to Glojo's annual 'pilgrimage' , or maybe back from it , and fell foul of the pretty WPC featured on the interceptors programme : his speed that time was around 100 , maybe just over , and earned him points and a fine . I seem to recall the points had come off by the time of the second incident , which has been well documented on several fora .
Following his ban , Steve seems quite humbled and contrite , but then the ban and having to sell his cherished car must have been a bitter pill to swallow .
I know from corresponding with him that his attitude to speed has changed completely , and he is now quite uncomfortable even passengering beside someone driving at all swiftly , even legally .
