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Look no taxes !! Will electric cars really be tax free?

Doodle said:
Which equates to about 45mpg in imperial-speak, or exactly what the fiancee's 9yo Fiesta gets. As did the one she had before that.

I'm sure by American standards that's a revelation, but in Europe that's underwhelmingly average.
Click to expand...

Yes maybe.
But I bet your fiance's Fiesta hasn't done 250,000 miles without an issue other than two sets of brakes and some tyres & shocks plus regular service costs!

Also please take into account that battery deterioration over 18 years does have a bearing on power output and this stated consumption figure!

And lastly AND perhaps most importantly is the tailpipe actual emissions!

Stacked up against your fiance's Ford tail pipe figures the Toyota will win hands down on a 5 gas I/M 240 test and carbon emissions data in grams/km.

If you like, post your fiance's last E test data and i will do the same for all Toyotas in the fleet and the Lexus which has to be state tested every two years . (annually for diesel)

Being a State certified shop owner of an auto emission repair centre I can easily give you more or less a direct cross reference to Euro/UK Ford test for that year of car & its emissions data, versus the Federal US prescribed data or for that matter the California figures which are even tighter but which the Toyota passes easily.

Always remember with hybrids in all electric mode you have max torque available at zero revolutions! So the power to launch is far better than any ICE powered car! (well most) In dense urban /city operation of stop go traffic, the tail pipe emission of gasoline (petrol) hybrid cars is drastically reduced and that is really the attractiveness of this type of propulsion in cities.
Respectively
Tuercas Viejas
 
Science-free zone....

grober said:
Governments eh what are they like? :mad: Who elected these bozos anyway? :wallbash: OH! that would be us.:doh:

On the specific point in question might I suggest that part of the problem stems from the fact that the vast majority of members of the House of Commons and the senior echelons of government are scientifically or technically illiterate. This makes them vulnerable to the phenomenon whereby the cynical quest for policy-based evidence has trumped the desperate need for evidence-based policy. :dk:
Click to expand...

I'm reminded of meeting a Julian Huppert, the Cambridge Liberal MP in the House of Commons a few years ago whose main claim to fame was that he was the only PhD level scientist in the House of Commons who wasn't a Medical Doctor. Just 4% (Twenty seven) are STEM graduates, but only one at Doctorate level.

As you say, it explains why our MP's hunt for evidence to support policies, rather than policies based on evidence.

On this last initiative, to reduce pollution from congestion in heavily populated areas, I still struggle to understand why anyone thinks stopping Farmers in Norfolk from buying diesels is in anyway relevant to the fug which bedevils Putney High St. Reduce the congestion on Putney High St, re-route the buses and traffic, or make it a Diesel-free zone, certainly. It's not Rocket Science.

P1340104a.jpg
 
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All this talk of electric cars won't help the environment one iota until they invent electric buses, trucks, ships and aeroplanes.
I am sure one day an answer will be found but ALL of us worldwide driving electric cars is a long, long way off.
 
Well the first stop & simple answer is to eliminate diesel powered buses from the High St .
This is not rocket science as you state! The answer is a question of MONEY and investment in the future.

You could start with hybrid buses running on CNG, or in fact simple re-powers using CNG!
BAE Systems delivers 7,000th hybrid-electric system for buses - Sustainability - Metro Magazine

Calif. agency introduces first electric Gillig bus using BAE technology - Sustainability - Metro Magazine

There are many transit bus companies running such vehicles like Denver RTD.
Here's an example of a Gillig ( I was seconded to this company in San Leandro Ca when I worked for Leyland)
RTD

Of course once upon a time LT had a thing called a trolley bus ! A bit rude and crude by today's standard, but riding on them as a kid they were quite nifty and didn't stink!

So ask your Mr MP what about street cars like say Portland, Seattle Tucson, Stockholm, Zurich?
Probably wouldn't have a clue and more interested in his new car and weekend getaway cottage in the west country!:rolleyes:

The change means a sizable investment which few are prepared to even contemplate. Given the size of the LRT fleet it is likely that even a 500 strength depot would be well in excess of 10 million quid just for starters .

So what do you want, new super expensive aircraft carriers for the RN to fly the flag or a fleet of new non polluting buses for public transport infrastructure ?
Money in and money out!
Tuercas Viejas
 
For long journeys, EV technology until some revolutionary change in battery technology, is always going to struggle in terms of onboard energy capacity compared to ICe equipped vehicles.

PHEVs with 50 miles or so of useable EV city operating range will probably become the best all rounder. With recharging being available at parking points. An area that needs to be resolved with some urgency is arriving at an agreed standard charging system. Need to avoid the Betamax, VHS, scenario.

EVs are likely to dominate for short range (less than 50-75 miles) commuting and city driving. Same issue regarding a standardised charging system applies. Ideally EV and PHEV charging systems would be the same.

City centres are likely to become passenger-car free zones with emphasis perhaps on Electric or Hydrogen power for buses/trams.

In this age where many jobs are IT based, there may also be benefits from finding ways for more people to work from home or in local business hubs instead of commuting into cities each day. This would reduce energy use, take a lot of pressure off of the transport system and improve quality of life for those that can avoid the commute. Those that have no choice but to commute will experience less congestion too.
 
Pricing worries

Electric.jpg


"We've been overcharged."
 
Thanks for posting this Graeme

This car due out shortly is now very close to the 300 mile anxiety range issue like I mentioned earlier.
The Hybrid Volt shares a Li-Ion battery but it was much larger and T shaped in construction so there was no bench set in the rear, just two bucket style rear passengers seats .

The flat floor is almost de -rigueur and it follows the same config as the Chinese/Calif entrepreneur built Coda which came out about 10 year ago and fizzled out like a damp squib. Quality was crap and the range nothing like this!.

We provided some service for them but they were terrible. Not missed!

So What's A Brand-New (Defunct) Coda Sedan Electric Car Worth?

Cheers
Dennis aka Tuercas Viejas
 
Dysprosium get used to the name

Sadly the roll out of true mass production of the Bolt seems to be in some doubt.:(
QUOTE
GM's Bolt EV program, seems to be geared toward regulatory compliance and not a high volume vehicle program. They are reportedly planning only 30,000 units per year and they will concentrate the deliveries where they need to comply with emission mandates since the company confirmed they are losing money on the vehicle otherwise. Lots of unfulfilled orders/long delivery times for Norway for example where EVs are extremely popular with their abundance of cheap electricity, would indicate a manufacturer reluctant to scale up production in the face of demand for their product. Seems strange but maybe the product is too good- so good that its liable to take away business from their existing production plants making conventional cars which represent considerable investment already made? :crazy:
https://electrek.co/2017/05/05/chevy-bolt-ev-europe-ampera-e/

ps a RHD Vauxhall badged Bolt made/assembled in Ellesmere port might be just the thing to keep that plant open but the clock may already be ticking.:dk:
 
Hmm... scaling up production beyond 30,000 units/year is a huge commitment for a company like GM that have struggled a bit in recent years. It's also taking a bit of a leap of faith for some of the technologies involved that are undergoing rapid development, e.g. batteries and charging systems.

Would be cool to see them built at the Ellesmere Port plant, except that it's been sold to Peugeot?
 
The politicos will be too ignorant to understand it if it does.
 
Not a fan of John Cadogan's swearing (adds nothing to the clip) though to be fair he did mellow down recently; also not sure why he finds it necessary to be offensive towards religious people (though I guess there's some confort in the fact that he offends all religions equally....).

But other than that he has some valid points.
 
190 said:
No need for electric cars if this new petrol engine works

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/groundbreaking-mazda-skyactiv-x-petrol-engines-be-%E2%80%98cleaner-electric%E2%80%99
Click to expand...

Interesting to see the use of 'well to wheels' terminology for the emissions claims.

The OEMs were heading down the lean burn route for gasoline engines maybe 25-years ago. With the right combustion dynamics this can lead to low CO2, CO, NOx and HC emissions. With advances in engine control technology and CFD modelling, there is probably better understanding today of how to achieve reliable combustion over the full operating range (which isn't easy).

However regulators mandated use of 3-way catalysts for exhaust after treatment, which pretty much forced/forces a stoichiometric combustion engine for gasoline.
 
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