MB Service gone wrong - spark plug snapped!

[Smiley]

If you were really untrusting you would take a sharp object with you and make a very clear mark on the existing head!

 

[LTD]

If you were really untrusting you would take a sharp object with you and make a very clear mark on the existing head!

If they confirm that they are changing the head, and they would if it was my car, then you tell them that you want to mark the head to ensure that this work is actually carried out as you have lost their trust.

After all, they have damaged your car.

If they refuse your request - ask them why this is the case and get it in writing.

 

[iscaboy]

centre punch is ideal to mark something like this, just punch three holes in a line or triangle anywhere they will always be obvious.

centre punch doesn't damage or devalue anything.

 

[Howard]

Not sure how they can refuse your request ?

Its your car after all .... if you wanted to go in and smash the windscreen with a hammer , you could surely being that you own it ?

 

[LTD]

Not sure how they can refuse your request ?

Its your car after all .... if you wanted to go in and smash the windscreen with a hammer , you could surely being that you own it ?

If they claim to replace the head then the old head would become their property and they could refuse the request.

 

[iscaboy]

If they claim to replace the head then the old head would become their property and they could refuse the request.

Hence saying use a centre punch and make a small pattern.

Does zero damage of any kind.

 

[Ali_H]

Mercedes use Time-Sert as an approved repair method, so I don't think you'll get a new head. I certainly didn't with a similar problem after the dealer changed the glow plugs on my 320CDi.

 

[cyberflex]

tried to give the service manager a call to get a progress update and what method they're employing to fix things, the receptionist said he was "busy" and would call me back later, well they're now closed so guess I'll have to ring again in the morning.

Is that right, if they are using a helicoil or other thread repair, I don't have to accept it and can ask them to instead get a new head!? What if they're argument is that the repair is as good as if not better than new!? (Don't know for sure what method they're employing will find out in the morning and keep you posted.)

My view on this is that from the above, you like myself have tried the decent human being approach, i.e. mistakes can and do happen, I for one do understand this completely.

However, the fact that they were 'too busy' to respond at all before close of business speaks volumes to me about the situation.

Were they busy working on another customers SL65 AMG Bi-turbo as opposed to your '55 plate A170....???? Sorry, not good enough...

Obviously the above is just extreme speculation, however, if you get my point, all is well.

Point being, whilst in for work an error has occurred on your vehicle, it really should be their top priority to get things put right and moreover,at least communicate with you efficiently by calling you back on the same working day as you initially contacted them.

I am sure they can (after head removal) tap a new thread, but to be honest if it were my car, I would ask to see the car and speak to a technician. Then you will really know the situation.

For me, I think that you are not being awkward at all by asking for a new head, they should have some sort of insurance for 'accidents' like this, being a part of the dealer network and all....

You have tried the decent approach, but the not getting back in contact today, is just not good enough, given the position they are in with you.

 

[st13phil]

I don't actually see the point of questioning the Service Manager about how this happened as he's already "fessed up" and is correcting the problem at zero cost and minimum inconvenience to the OP. What benefit would be derived by doing so other than to vent that when paying top rates this sort of thing should never happen?

However...

I would guess that the intended repair will indeed be a helicoil insert which, if carried out by a competent machine shop with the head off the block, would be a satisfactory repair (with one possible caveat depending upon the particular engine). Would anyone who is so anti helicoiling like to elaborate on the reason(s) for their opposition?

 

[Simba]

tried to give the service manager a call to get a progress update and what method they're employing to fix things, the receptionist said he was "busy" and would call me back later, well they're now closed so guess I'll have to ring again in the morning.

Is that right, if they are using a helicoil or other thread repair, I don't have to accept it and can ask them to instead get a new head!? What if they're argument is that the repair is as good as if not better than new!? (Don't know for sure what method they're employing will find out in the morning and keep you posted.)

If they cant do a simple thing like change a spark plug,who would want them to do a thread repair ?

I know what I would demand. They are obiliged to return your car to you in the same condition that it was before they messed it up. I would demand a new head. If they refuse then go to the small claims court.

You are not at fault,you dont have to accept second best.

 

[iscaboy]

I would guess that the intended repair will indeed be a helicoil insert which, if carried out by a competent machine shop with the head off the block, would be a satisfactory repair (with one possible caveat depending upon the particular engine). Would anyone who is so anti helicoiling like to elaborate on the reason(s) for their opposition?

I'm not anti helicoil per se, I just wouldn't use it for spark plugs***, EVER. Seen it go wrong too often. Timesert always works however.

In this instance, the OP did not take the car in with a damaged plug thread, so I would not accept anything less than a new head. End of discussion. See you in Court.

*** Edit, or for glowplugs. eg nothing directly exposed to cyclic combustion pressures.

 

[cyberflex]

I am not against the helicoil approach, some say this method is used for repairs within the aviation industry, I would not be surprised as it seems to be an accepted/efficient/tested way of repair.

Personally all I would want, is a little communication, that is all.

I would be asking about the method of the helicoil repair, would the head be going off to an engineering firm e.t.c. ?? If so, great, no problem.

I understand these are questions which would probably not be met with any enthusiasm, in terms of an answer, but if I were willing to accept a repair as opposed to a new head, all I would want to know is that the head work is being sub contracted out to a specialist and not done 'in house' (see below)

This is an extract taken from a thread that discusses a similar situation...

"When I saw one done they rotated the crank to TDC on compression for that cylinder and stuffed a greasy tack rag down the plug hole. Drilled, tapped and helicoil inserted then rag fished out with all the swarf stuck to it. "

Even though the above method would suffice, I would rather the head was removed and sent off....

 

[nick mercedes]

Is that right, if they are using a helicoil or other thread repair, I don't have to accept it and can ask them to instead get a new head!? What if they're argument is that the repair is as good as if not better than new!? (Don't know for sure what method they're employing will find out in the morning and keep you posted.)

I'd leave them alone to repair your car, they've put their hands up and are fixing the car.

If you ring up and explain that a load of "experts" on a forum have better plans for the repair than a MB workshop....

 

[Simba]

I'd leave them alone to repair your car, they've put their hands up and are fixing the car.

If you ring up and explain that a load of "experts" on a forum have better plans for the repair than a MB workshop....

Who caused the problem in the first place ?

 

[iscaboy]

"When I saw one done they rotated the crank to TDC on compression for that cylinder and stuffed a greasy tack rag down the plug hole. Drilled, tapped and helicoil inserted then rag fished out with all the swarf stuck to it. "

See, that is EXACTLY THE WRONG WAY TO DO IT.


But hell, it is fast and cheap, and once the vehicle goes out the door, who cares.

 

[Bellow]

I am not against the helicoil approach, some say this method is used for repairs within the aviation industry, I would not be surprised as it seems to be an accepted/efficient/tested way of repair.

Personally all I would want, is a little communication, that is all.

I would be asking about the method of the helicoil repair, would the head be going off to an engineering firm e.t.c. ?? If so, great, no problem.

I understand these are questions which would probably not be met with any enthusiasm, in terms of an answer, but if I were willing to accept a repair as opposed to a new head, all I would want to know is that the head work is being sub contracted out to a specialist and not done 'in house' (see below)

This is an extract taken from a thread that discusses a similar situation...

"When I saw one done they rotated the crank to TDC on compression for that cylinder and stuffed a greasy tack rag down the plug hole. Drilled, tapped and helicoil inserted then rag fished out with all the swarf stuck to it. "

Even though the above method would suffice, I would rather the head was removed and sent off....

Do that on a car of mine and I'd break his fvcking neck. And I advocate the softly softly approach. But pull a stunt like that....
Anyway, the porcelain is still in there...

 

[nick mercedes]

Who caused the problem in the first place ?

Some MB dealership somewhere who owned up to it and are dealing with it.

OP's got a loaner, and his cars getting fixed, it's not the end of the world.

 

[swift1]

Thanks to the good people on this forum and the knowledge you have imparted, I've gone from being clueless and accepting carte blanch everything the SM tells me, to now I'm in a position where I can really question what is going on.

It does appear that the TIME-SERT is a better repair than the heli-coil as the heli-coil as a tendency to come out, whereas the TIME-SERT the last 3 threads expand and lock into place.

Given the high temps of the cylinders, are these thread inserts capable of lasting 100k miles or many years. Can these threads fail while driving if so what would happen - is it a saftey risk? or would they only fail when trying to remove the spark plug?

Regarding the cylinder head, does it have a number or ID on it so I can note this down - I don't think I'm brave enough to say I want to centre punch the head.

 

[iscaboy]

helicoils often blow out, always on alloy heads, no real rhyme or reason, and then you have an even bigger area of damage to fix

time-sert NEVER blow out, ever.

time-sert is certified by the Federal Aviation Authority for use of aero engines spark plugs, helicoil IS NOT.

Do you really need to know anything else?

NB the important factor is the exposure to cyclic thermal and pressure excusrions, due to direct access to the combustion chamber.

(ps I have no problem using helicoil on an exhaust stud, etc etc)

 

[LTD]

Some MB dealership somewhere who owned up to it and are dealing with it.

OP's got a loaner, and his cars getting fixed, it's not the end of the world.

Very true but the best repair to the problem they caused must be the very least they should do. If it was my car, I would insist on a new head.

Whilst there are other repairs available to solve the problem, one thing is a given.

The problem was not of the customer's making and he therefore holds ALL the cards regarding the outcome.

The head did not have any previous repair solution carried out - why should it be deemed acceptable ?