Mercedes GLC Clonking and juddering on near full steering lock

[DRIVER200]

If it means a major redesign say for example the front crossmember, steering rack etc being candid I'd be very doubtful also too it wouldn't be practical either if it involved structural changes. The best you and fellow owners can hope for is modified steering and/or suspension components - arms and bushes, maybe eccentric bushes or some such components.

It's a real wait and see game and I think it hinges on how well the all season tyres MBUK are offering perform/mask the issue. If the majority of owners are content with the new tyres that will be the end of any further assistance from MBUK I'd reckon.

It's all numbers game for MBUK, they are probably working basis that any further complaints will come from owners who purchased their cars outright and the PCP'ers will be easy to fob off if they bother to raise complaints.

I'd take the overall view the glass is half full simply going by the fact that MBUK have admitted there is a fault.

Not sure why you think PCP owners are less likely to complain considering how much they will be paying for the pleasure of owning this car for 36 months?

 

[whitenemesis]

Not sure why you think PCP owners are less likely to complain considering how much they will be paying for the pleasure of owning this car for 36 months?

But they don't own the car, the finance company does and as such they possibly might be much less concerned about pushing for a resolution?

 

[DRIVER200]

But they don't own the car, the finance company does and as such they possibly might be much less concerned about pushing for a resolution?

Not sure I agree as if I was paying the total amount that it costs for a 36 month PCP plan which is probably more than it will cost a £ buyer (depreciation+resale value) I would be equally concerned about the reliability of the car.

 

[John Jones Jr]

I guess you are right as the actual word ''Fault'' has not been used but the implication is that due to the RHD design characteristics being slightly different to those on a LHD vehicles then you could argue that it's a design fault which no doubt many people will be thinking.

''Due to the positioning of the front axle differential on right hand drive cars, the steering position differs very slightly compared to left hand drive models''

Exactly, no didn't but they may as well have. Clearly MBUK wouldn't admit today is Monday if it didn't suit their purposes. When push comes to shove one couldn't call it anything else but a fault, be it a design fault or mechanical fault. If anybody else thinks it's not a fault they are in cuckoo land or have some sort of ridiculous agenda.

 

[grober]

Would it not be best to focus on the technology that has lead to this point. There is still a dearth of technical feedback on the engineering involved in this issue. I remain intrigued by any differences , if any, in the transfer box that exist between the LHD and RHD cars that share this platform. Take this analysis from this article on LHD cars.
Mercedes-Benz 4MATIC Winter Experience - Motor Trend
Specifically:_
Mercedes settled on its passenger cars’ 45/55 front/rear torque distribution (having moved from 40/60 front/rear on past five-speed models) for specific reasons. Rival torque-on-demand-style AWD systems can vary and swing engine output between the front and rear axles at any ratio the manufacturer or supplier wishes, which may lead to more thrilling and dynamic performance but result in erratic handling behavior. Locking the distribution at 45/55 front/rear means predictability. Differentials, half-shafts, and propeller shafts can be built to exact specification, saving valuable pounds where torque-on-demand AWD would necessitate components at both ends prepared for maximum output at any time.

Integrating 4MATIC’s transfer case and planetary-type center diff into the transmission centralizes mass, exploiting the full benefit of Mercedes’ longitudinally mounted engines. A double-plate “breakaway” clutch in the C-, E-, and S-Class 4MATIC transfer cases acts as a pseudo limited-slip diff, capable of changing front to rear load distribution (up to 70 percent frontwards or backwards) when there’s less traction available. After the clutch, electronics like 4ETS and stability control can intervene when necessary. Improving the driveline’s NVH characteristics and reducing friction was a top priority, too.

I'm particularly interested in this "breakway clutch" mentioned. In the event of any transmission wind up due to anti-ackerman steering "drag" [ not now in dispute] is it possible this clutch is going to release tension in the drivetrain in response and this results in the "clonking" people are hearing as drive is applied and released? Do RHD cars have such an assembly in their transfer box?
Part of the reason for saying this is that tyres don't clonk - metal does.
Now shifting that "stress release" to a set of winter tyres may appear to be a "bit of a fix " but if it shifts that stress from suspension or drive train components to easily replaced tyres that may in the end turn out to be cheaper solution to the problem than rebuilding a transmission further down the line?

 

[John Jones Jr]

Not sure why you think PCP owners are less likely to complain considering how much they will be paying for the pleasure of owning this car for 36 months?

As I said it's a numbers game.

Human nature would dictate on the law of averages that somebody who's rented rather than purchased is not going to be as concerned about the item in question (and in this case there's the manufacturer's new car warranty too.)

They'll just be handing it back and any future problems will be of no concern to them.

 

[DRIVER200]

As I said it's a numbers game.

Human nature would dictate on the law of averages that somebody who's rented rather than purchased is not going to be as concerned about the item in question (and in this case there's the manufacturer's new car warranty too.)

They'll just be handing it back and any future problems will be of no concern to them.

OK. Based on your theory owners' will pay many £000's per year and live with cluncking/severe juddering/excessive uneven tyre wear just because they can give their car back in 3 years time. Well if it were me I would be taking a very, very different view to that. But you appear to know about human nature more than I do.

 

[Flackadder]

I would be moaning and complaining, either way.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

OK. Based on your theory owners' will pay many £000's per year and live with cluncking/severe juddering/excessive uneven tyre wear just because they can give their car back in 3 years time. Well if it were me I would be taking a very, very different view to that. But you appear to know about human nature more than I do.

The opportunity to hand back and walk away may come around well before the full term.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I would be moaning and complaining, either way.

You wouldn't be alone if this thread is an example.

 

[John Jones Jr]

OK. Based on your theory owners' will pay many £000's per year and live with cluncking/severe juddering/excessive uneven tyre wear just because they can give their car back in 3 years time. Well if it were me I would be taking a very, very different view to that. But you appear to know about human nature more than I do.

It's only my opinion which in essence means sod all in the big scheme of things.

 

[jonnyMercUK]

Statement posted on GLCForum indicating how MB UK are planning to resolve the crabbing and juddering fault for GLC owners - not the most positive message, but acceptance that they have a problem with the GLC


24 February 2017


For the attention of Market Area Directors, Sales Directors, After Sales Directors, General Managers, Sales Managers, After Sales Managers, CSU Managers


Dear Colleague

Further to our interim update last week, we are now able to provide a more detailed technical explanation regarding this issue.

Due to the positioning of the front axle differential on right hand drive cars, the steering position differs very slightly compared to left hand drive models. When the steering is on full lock this steering angle difference can result in the front tyre skipping sensation. This is more pronounced during cold weather and when larger wheels and low profile tyres are fitted.

We can assure you that our technical specialists, as well as independent experts such as DEKRA, concur that the cars remain completely safe to drive.

Fitment of All Season tyres counteracts the sensation. We are therefore securing sufficient stocks of these to provide to customers who find this uncomfortable.

· Mercedes-Benz Cars UK will contact GLC customers who have already registered a Compass complaint:
• Customers with 17”, 18”, 19” and 20” tyres will be offered a set of All Season tyres (once available) and fitment free of charge
• For GLC 43 AMG customers who have cars with 21” tyres, a 21” All Season tyre is not currently available. We will offer these customers the option of taking 20” wheels and All Season tyres, or waiting for 21” All Season tyre availability

· We would ask you to please do the same for GLC customer complaints that you have received and managed locally or for any future GLC complaints about this issue until further notice

· Please also take the following action for customers who have ordered their car but have yet to take delivery, and for future customers of existing dealer and pipeline stock until further notice:
• Please make sure they are aware of this characteristic.
• Customers proceeding with delivery have the option to take All Season tyres as soon as they are available or to wait and change to them if/when they experience this sensation in Winter 2017/18.
• For customers who do not wish to take delivery of their GLC with summer tyres, please offer a courtesy car until the All Season tyres are available for their car.

For all the cases above concerning provision and fitment of All Season tyres, please submit a goodwill claim against damage code 2113800.
We will provide updates concerning any interaction we have with your customers, together with availability of the aftermarket All Season tyres and the logistics process involved.

Yours faithfully




David George Sally Jones
Sales Director Customer Services Director
Mercedes-Benz Cars Mercedes-Benz Cars


Emma Passmoor

Customer Services MBuk

I had this letter forwarded to me this morning from the sales manager. I'm taking delivery of a GLC Coupe on Wednesday, I think it's clear to say i'll be waiting until I get the car to make any decisions. I'll more than likely be swopping the tyres next winter

 

[Alfie]

It's only my opinion which in essence means sod all in the big scheme of things.

Just as valid as anyone elses opinion.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Just as valid as anyone elses opinion.

Yeah, but you what they say about opinions...

 

[grober]

In case anyone was wondering what I have been wittering on about with "breakaway clutches" here is a video strip down of a similar assembly on an old S class 4matic. There are many differences of course. The transfer box had its own lubrication back then but I dont think this is always the case now??? Its a very neat arrangement attached to the planetary gear set with a friction plate pressure plate and a preload spring. The latest ones are possibly multi rather than single plate- but like all clutches they will eventually wear out depending on frequency of use.
https://youtu.be/4qF_QrpIS9U

[YOUTUBE]4qF_QrpIS9U[/YOUTUBE]

and a later W211 design. Sorry about the Hillbilly music y'all

https://youtu.be/OAZfk6BqdOQ

[YOUTUBE]OAZfk6BqdOQ[/YOUTUBE]

 

[hallra]

Anyone been contacted by their garage and offered the replacement tyres?

I have been distracted myself with other things, so haven't chased.

I must admit i do like all the commentary on what everyone thinks is the problem/non problem with the GLC steering.

Though, I must admit I don't give a damn what the problem is as long as it is fixed to my satisfaction, I didn't buy my GLC for how the suspension/steering works, I bought it for comfort and for quality, so as long as I get that how it works I don't care.

 

[jonnyMercUK]

Anyone been contacted by their garage and offered the replacement tyres? I have been distracted myself with other things, so haven't chased. I must admit i do like all the commentary on what everyone thinks is the problem/non problem with the GLC steering. Though, I must admit I don't give a damn what the problem is as long as it is fixed to my satisfaction, I didn't buy my GLC for how the suspension/steering works, I bought it for comfort and for quality, so as long as I get that how it works I don't care.

Yes. See my last post

 

[brucemillar]

Anyone been contacted by their garage and offered the replacement tyres? I have been distracted myself with other things, so haven't chased. I must admit i do like all the commentary on what everyone thinks is the problem/non problem with the GLC steering. Though, I must admit I don't give a damn what the problem is as long as it is fixed to my satisfaction, I didn't buy my GLC for how the suspension/steering works, I bought it for comfort and for quality, so as long as I get that how it works I don't care.

You should care very much. Why? Well if you do not understand even the basics of the problem then you are at the mercy of any claim to have "fixed" the problem.

I keep repeating this. Tyres do not fix transmission wind up. Tyres may mask the impact but will not stop the engineering fault behind it. Finding this out when you have no come back and a potentially worthless resale value? May make you feel you wanted to care.

;^)

Sent from my iPhone using MBClub UK

 

[DRIVER200]

You should care very much. Why? Well if you do not understand even the basics of the problem then you are at the mercy of any claim to have "fixed" the problem.

I keep repeating this. Tyres do not fix transmission wind up. Tyres may mask the impact but will not stop the engineering fault behind it. Finding this out when you have no come back and a potentially worthless resale value? May make you feel you wanted to care.

;^)

Sent from my iPhone using MBClub UK

I doubt many owners contributing to this will end up driving a GLC/C Class 4Matic older than the warranty.

 

[hallra]

You should care very much. Why? Well if you do not understand even the basics of the problem then you are at the mercy of any claim to have "fixed" the problem.

I keep repeating this. Tyres do not fix transmission wind up. Tyres may mask the impact but will not stop the engineering fault behind it. Finding this out when you have no come back and a potentially worthless resale value? May make you feel you wanted to care.

;^)

Sent from my iPhone using MBClub UK

Don't take that because I didn't buy my car for how steering/suspension works, for not understanding technical solutions, impact to value of car or anything else.

My previous posts suggest I don't believe a masking of the problem with all season tyres is gonna be a solution.