Mercedes GLC Clonking and juddering on near full steering lock

[DRIVER200]

Its strange...I've driven a new glc 350d 4matic 20" alloys and had a play with it in the car park in the knowledge the judder is there, I tried to make it do it...it did eventually in reverse mostly , but honestly seemed so trivial I wondered what all the fuss is about, made me think people are being OTT....I have however seen vids where it seemed very bad so I dunno

Just got a C43 it does it I knew it does before I brought...seems all the 4matics do, once it warms up its fine....I guess however you tolerate it more on a amg performance car....sort of performance car quirks....for the record the c43 is worse

What tyre's do you have?

 

[grober]

The ML/GL has a different transfer box.

see all the 4wd variants here.
Mercedes all wheel drive explained | awd cars, 4x4 vehicles, 4wd trucks, 4motion, quattro, xDrive, SH-AWD, Haldex, Torsen, wiki - How it works

 

[swale]

That's very interesting, and may actually demonstrate that the fault is restricted to 4 cyl GLC diesels. (Plus of course the 6 cyl petrol).

I guess the 350 is a similar set up to the well proven ML/GLE in RHD flavour. If not then maybe it's just benefited from a year or more R&D.

good point maybe the extra weight over the nose is helping somehow

 

[dejongj]

good point maybe the extra weight over the nose is helping somehow

But by your own admission; you said it was still doing it

Don't forget the power of brand new tyres either.

I'm sorry to hear you think we are OTT and overly fussy....But I've never apologised for keeping high standards

 

[John Jones Jr]

I remain unconvinced that it is the "steering geometry" that is solely responsible for this? I say again..... I suspect Transmission Wind Up is the root cause and tyres, either mitigate or amplify the effect of the wind up.

+1.

That was my guess originally and I'm still leaning towards the front diff causing this issue. I don't for second believe it's caused by tyres, the tyres are only symptom of the problem. And as there's still no fix available one could rightly to conclude some costly re-engineering would be required to resolve the issue.

 

[tangey]

I have been given a document from my dealer which mentions the requirement of new prospective owners to sign the acceptance of the issue.

I wait eagerly for the update due today (17th. Feb 2017) which should relate to existing owners.

I have made a application to the DVSA (Vehicle Safety Branch) of VOSA regarding the safety of the vehicle. They have informed me that they are aware of the issue and are in contact with the manufacturer, Mercedes.

I hope we can have some news which will satisfy each and every existing customer.

John

Where did you get the 17th of Feb date, and can you go back to your source and see why nothing apparenly happened on Friday ?

 

[DRIVER200]

+1.

That was my guess originally and I'm still leaning towards the front diff causing this issue. I don't for second believe it's caused by tyres, the tyres are only symptom of the problem. And as there's still no fix available one could rightly to conclude some costly re-engineering would be required to resolve the issue.

Just playing the Devil's Advocate and for the subject of continued debate why do you think Porsche have not corrected this in their new generation Panamera as surely it's nothing to do with £ but they have been well aware of this problem in previous models but still produce cars with this characteristic?

Porsche Panamera steering judder - Page 1 - Front Engined Porsches - PistonHeads

 

[st13phil]

And as there's still no fix available one could rightly to conclude some costly re-engineering would be required to resolve the issue.

If any substantial re-engineering is required it's not just cost that's a consideration. It's quite conceivable that a material change to suspension or drivetrain components may require re-submission of the vehicle for type approval crash testing, which could potentially take months.

 

[ShaunB]

Winter tyres to solve the issue - loads of balls in my opinion.
Here's another video clip I came across
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTT0U8fciR0

 

[John Jones Jr]

If any substantial re-engineering is required it's not just cost that's a consideration. It's quite conceivable that a material change to suspension or drivetrain components may require re-submission of the vehicle for type approval crash testing, which could potentially take months.

Worse again. But unlikely I'd guess.

 

[Druk]

+1.

That was my guess originally and I'm still leaning towards the front diff causing this issue. I don't for second believe it's caused by tyres, the tyres are only symptom of the problem. And as there's still no fix available one could rightly to conclude some costly re-engineering would be required to resolve the issue.

+2. That noise isn't caused by tyres, it's the tyres reacting to something else that's going on.

 

[swale]

But by your own admission; you said it was still doing it

Don't forget the power of brand new tyres either.

I'm sorry to hear you think we are OTT and overly fussy....But I've never apologised for keeping high standards

I'm not sure I think anything I don't have enough experience all I can say is that the 350 did it but it was hardly noticeable if I didn't know I wouldn't have spotted it....
my c43 is noticeable and is rather it didn't do it but it's how they all are and I can accept it as a quirk it's a great car.... as I say I've seen some vids where it seemed very bad like a proper knock and in them cases I can understand.

 

[DRIVER200]

I'm not sure I think anything I don't have enough experience all I can say is that the 350 did it but it was hardly noticeable if I didn't know I wouldn't have spotted it....
my c43 is noticeable and is rather it didn't do it but it's how they all are and I can accept it as a quirk it's a great car.... as I say I've seen some vids where it seemed very bad like a proper knock and in them cases I can understand.

What tyre's are you running on?

 

[swale]

What tyre's are you running on?

On the c43 Dunlop with 18" wheels


Not sure what the glc was it was 20 inch though

 

[RehanGLC]

GLC Juddering - My experience with MBUK

Hi all,

I have had a very negative experience with Mercedes Benz UK when escalating the issue.

Heres my mail chain with MBUK CEO escalations office:

I have now also done a video of appeal to CEO MBUK Gary Savage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mhn-cK3VIQ

Hi Gary and Mark

I hope you are both well and trust you had a Happy Christmas and New Year.

I am a disabled man with below knee artificial legs and deformed hands.

In September 2016 I took delivery of a brand new Mercedes Benz GLC 250d AMG Line Premium Plus – with registration - RE06 HAN.

I have found that since delivery on day one, the car skips/jumps/judders when turning in any direction at slow speed on full lock in either direction. This I feel, is not safe at all.

The reason that I have written at such a senior level is because I don’t feel confident that any dealership would be able to manage this issue to a successful conclusion, they may but it would take a very long time I feel. This is a serious issue and I don’t want to be told, that it’s the cold weather, it’s the tyres etc. etc. I have not yet approached my dealer as I don’t want to “run around” and try and manage this issue with several escalations and so on lasting a period of months. This is why I have directly written to you for advice.

I would be very grateful if someone at a senior level could assist me with my journey into investigating this issue. As you can understand, I cannot be without a car and hence this issue is of the utmost importance for me.

Having read several blogs regarding this issue, I have found that I am not the only customer with the problem and that Mercedes have already recognised this as “skipping” and an “unwanted characteristic”.

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/general-discussion/201420-knocking-steering-new-glc-2.html

I am looking for the following please:

1) A quick resolution to the issue if Mercedes are already aware of a fix.

Or

2) A full refund so that I can go and purchase another car.
3) There will clearly be abnormal wear on the tyres due to this issue and I would like to know what Mercedes can do regarding this as clearly I will have to replace these tyres sooner than normal.

Gentlemen, I look forward to your reply as soon as possible.

I have copied in Mercedes customer service, David Gregory my sales executive at Mercedes Brooklands and Steve Palmer the General Manager at Mercedes Brooklands.

Thank you for your time.

Warm Regards

Rehan Siddiqui



Dear Mr Rehan,

Thank you for copying me in with your email to Senior Management of Mercedes Benz UK. I just need to advise you that Mr Whittington nor Mr West work for MBUK anymore. I am sorry you are experiencing an issue with your car which will be taken seriously by MB Brooklands. I’m sure you will understand that in order for anyone at MBUK to be involved with this case and your concerns, the car will need to be inspected before any solutions can be considered.

With this in mind I have copied the Aftersales Manager, who will arrange for you to be contacted later today and arrange an initial booking and inspect the car. Once this has happened we can propose what Mercedes Benz next step will be.

I hope you find this proposal satisfactory.

Regards
Steve Palmer
General Manager
Mercedes-Benz Brooklands


Dear Mr Siddiqui

In response to your e-mail to Mr Savage, I would like to acknowledge receipt.

We were sorry to hear that you are experiencing this issue with your GLC and can appreciate your concern.

This characteristic comes from flexibility within the tyre sidewall, the grip between the front tyres and the type of road surface being driven over. It is something which can be felt only at very low speeds, and when a certain percentage of wheel lock is engaged for turning. This is demonstratively more evident in colder temperatures due to the changes in the tyre rubber elasticity.

As per the Mercedes-Benz Digital Handbook for your car, we would always recommend the use of winter tyres for temperatures which fall below approximately +7 degrees. The recommendation given to improve this characteristic would be to change the tyres on your car to suitable tyres for the winter period.

Please be assured that this is a comfort issue and does not affect the safety or overall performance of your car.

Thank you for taking the time to make us aware, and I sincerely hope our response helps to allay your concerns.

Kind regards

Kylie Skilton
CEO Office
Mercedes-Benz Cars Limited



Dear Kylie,

Thank you very much for your prompt response with this matter.

Unfortunately I cannot accept the root cause statement you have provided for the following reasons:

· I took delivery of the car in September 2016 and this issue has been happening since then.
· This has been a very mild winter apart from the last couple of weeks with temperatures around 13 – 20 degrees. It was happening in September/October when temperatures were around 20 degrees
· The issue occurs on all types of roads, on my driveway at home, on a normal road, in my work car park, in shopping mall car parks – in fact everywhere.
· The issue is especially apparent when reversing at full lock at slow speed and the car judders/skids around 2-5 centimetres – this happens in either direction
· I have been driving since 1992 and have always had premium cars including 4x4’s and have never experienced this issue.
· I cannot agree that this is a comfort issue as the car should not slip/skip/lose grip at all at slow speed. This is also a safety issue.


Steve Palmer the general manager at Mercedes Brooklands has helped me to book the car in for inspection on Friday 13th January.

If this issue cannot be remedied then I would like to proceed with a “rejection” of the car and request a full refund of the amount I have already paid including my deposit.

However I appreciate and understand that the car does need to be inspected first and Steve has been supportive in this matter.

Once the car has been inspected and any conclusions have been drawn by the dealer, I will keep you updated.

Thank you once again for your support.


Thank You.

Warm Regards


Dear Gary and Kylie,

I hope you are well.

I would like to update you with the current situation of my car.

Firstly I am quite disappointed in the fact that the CEO office (Kylie) has not followed up with me after your last mail to me below. I would have thought that you would have mailed me back for an update given my physical circumstances.

Steve Perrett at MB World Brooklands has been wonderful, although Steve was also not able to fix the issue for me, as it quite clearly is a design/production flaw. Steve demonstrated the issue himself with a brand new unregistered car to my wife and I.

Steve had my own car examined and there is no technical fault with the car but as we all know, the issue of the crabbing and skipping is occurring with all of the production GLC/C class AMG cars.

Gary/Kylie, Last week I needed to do a u-turn and my GLC did not respond at all well at low speed as whilst I turned it continued on straight for a few inches and the same happened one recent night when turning left into my home drive way, the left turn did not execute and the car continued straight for a few inches, this was not safe at all. These incidents are on top of the daily ongoing skipping/juddering/crabbing/skidding.

As you all know from my last few mails, I am disabled having no hands and I wear two below knee artificial legs and therefore I would say that safety is of paramount concern to me. My experience is that I do not feel the car is safe and I cannot trust it. I also am not having any enjoyment at all from the vehicle due to this issue. If I had been made aware of the issue before the sale then I would have not placed the order and would have bought something else.

Kylie/Gary and Steve, as an organisation at Mercedes Benz UK, I would like to please request some additional urgent consideration for my case.

What I would like; is to formally reject the car and request my deposit is refunded and any payments I have made to date so that I can return the car and order something else.

Please could you consider my case as a priority and reply back as soon as possible so that we can start this process.


Thank You.

Warm Regards


Dear Mr Siddiqui

I am sorry you are disappointed with my previous response, this was certainly not my intention.

To offer our assurances once more, following investigation completed by Mercedes-Benz Brooklands, this is a comfort issue and does not affect the safety or overall performance of your car. That said, I do appreciate your comments and we do recognise this remains a comfort issue for some of our customers and would like to reassure you that investigations are ongoing in the UK to try and minimise this characteristic.

We are therefore unable to support your request to reject your car and refunded your deposit and any payments made at this time.

Please rest assured, as soon as we have further information regarding this characteristic, we will of course let you know.

We appreciate that you remain disappointed by this characteristic, and understand this may not be the response you were hoping for, but this is our final position regarding this matter.

Kind regards

Kylie Skilton
CEO Office
Mercedes-Benz Cars UK Limited

 

[Flackadder]

I feel sure that somewhere, someplace...probably a board room. 'Judder gate', will be forefront on peoples minds.

 

[markjay]

I feel sure that somewhere, someplace...probably a board room. 'Judder gate', will be forefront on peoples minds.

Reading the thread, I believe it has been established that this is a design or manufacturing fault, not an issue with the OP's specific vehicle.

The question now is obviously whether this 'undesirable characteristic' is sufficient ground for rejecting the vehicle - given that if it does get to that, then MB UK may end-up buying back quite a lot of vehicles.....

Perhaps MB UK would be wise to buy back a small number of vehicles from those who complain loudest, against an NDA....

 

[renault12ts]

Hi all,

I have had a very negative experience with Mercedes Benz UK when escalating the issue.

Heres my mail chain with MBUK CEO escalations office:

I have now also done a video of appeal to CEO MBUK Gary Savage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mhn-cK3VIQ

Hi Gary and Mark

I hope you are both well and trust you had a Happy Christmas and New Year.

I am a disabled man with below knee artificial legs and deformed hands.

In September 2016 I took delivery of a brand new Mercedes Benz GLC 250d AMG Line Premium Plus – with registration - RE06 HAN.

I have found that since delivery on day one, the car skips/jumps/judders when turning in any direction at slow speed on full lock in either direction. This I feel, is not safe at all.

The reason that I have written at such a senior level is because I don’t feel confident that any dealership would be able to manage this issue to a successful conclusion, they may but it would take a very long time I feel. This is a serious issue and I don’t want to be told, that it’s the cold weather, it’s the tyres etc. etc. I have not yet approached my dealer as I don’t want to “run around” and try and manage this issue with several escalations and so on lasting a period of months. This is why I have directly written to you for advice.

I would be very grateful if someone at a senior level could assist me with my journey into investigating this issue. As you can understand, I cannot be without a car and hence this issue is of the utmost importance for me.

Having read several blogs regarding this issue, I have found that I am not the only customer with the problem and that Mercedes have already recognised this as “skipping” and an “unwanted characteristic”.

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/general-discussion/201420-knocking-steering-new-glc-2.html

I am looking for the following please:

1) A quick resolution to the issue if Mercedes are already aware of a fix.

Or

2) A full refund so that I can go and purchase another car.
3) There will clearly be abnormal wear on the tyres due to this issue and I would like to know what Mercedes can do regarding this as clearly I will have to replace these tyres sooner than normal.

Gentlemen, I look forward to your reply as soon as possible.

I have copied in Mercedes customer service, David Gregory my sales executive at Mercedes Brooklands and Steve Palmer the General Manager at Mercedes Brooklands.

Thank you for your time.

Warm Regards

Rehan Siddiqui



Dear Mr Rehan,

Thank you for copying me in with your email to Senior Management of Mercedes Benz UK. I just need to advise you that Mr Whittington nor Mr West work for MBUK anymore. I am sorry you are experiencing an issue with your car which will be taken seriously by MB Brooklands. I’m sure you will understand that in order for anyone at MBUK to be involved with this case and your concerns, the car will need to be inspected before any solutions can be considered.

With this in mind I have copied the Aftersales Manager, who will arrange for you to be contacted later today and arrange an initial booking and inspect the car. Once this has happened we can propose what Mercedes Benz next step will be.

I hope you find this proposal satisfactory.

Regards
Steve Palmer
General Manager
Mercedes-Benz Brooklands


Dear Mr Siddiqui

In response to your e-mail to Mr Savage, I would like to acknowledge receipt.

We were sorry to hear that you are experiencing this issue with your GLC and can appreciate your concern.

This characteristic comes from flexibility within the tyre sidewall, the grip between the front tyres and the type of road surface being driven over. It is something which can be felt only at very low speeds, and when a certain percentage of wheel lock is engaged for turning. This is demonstratively more evident in colder temperatures due to the changes in the tyre rubber elasticity.

As per the Mercedes-Benz Digital Handbook for your car, we would always recommend the use of winter tyres for temperatures which fall below approximately +7 degrees. The recommendation given to improve this characteristic would be to change the tyres on your car to suitable tyres for the winter period.

Please be assured that this is a comfort issue and does not affect the safety or overall performance of your car.

Thank you for taking the time to make us aware, and I sincerely hope our response helps to allay your concerns.

Kind regards

Kylie Skilton
CEO Office
Mercedes-Benz Cars Limited



Dear Kylie,

Thank you very much for your prompt response with this matter.

Unfortunately I cannot accept the root cause statement you have provided for the following reasons:

· I took delivery of the car in September 2016 and this issue has been happening since then.
· This has been a very mild winter apart from the last couple of weeks with temperatures around 13 – 20 degrees. It was happening in September/October when temperatures were around 20 degrees
· The issue occurs on all types of roads, on my driveway at home, on a normal road, in my work car park, in shopping mall car parks – in fact everywhere.
· The issue is especially apparent when reversing at full lock at slow speed and the car judders/skids around 2-5 centimetres – this happens in either direction
· I have been driving since 1992 and have always had premium cars including 4x4’s and have never experienced this issue.
· I cannot agree that this is a comfort issue as the car should not slip/skip/lose grip at all at slow speed. This is also a safety issue.


Steve Palmer the general manager at Mercedes Brooklands has helped me to book the car in for inspection on Friday 13th January.

If this issue cannot be remedied then I would like to proceed with a “rejection” of the car and request a full refund of the amount I have already paid including my deposit.

However I appreciate and understand that the car does need to be inspected first and Steve has been supportive in this matter.

Once the car has been inspected and any conclusions have been drawn by the dealer, I will keep you updated.

Thank you once again for your support.


Thank You.

Warm Regards


Dear Gary and Kylie,

I hope you are well.

I would like to update you with the current situation of my car.

Firstly I am quite disappointed in the fact that the CEO office (Kylie) has not followed up with me after your last mail to me below. I would have thought that you would have mailed me back for an update given my physical circumstances.

Steve Perrett at MB World Brooklands has been wonderful, although Steve was also not able to fix the issue for me, as it quite clearly is a design/production flaw. Steve demonstrated the issue himself with a brand new unregistered car to my wife and I.

Steve had my own car examined and there is no technical fault with the car but as we all know, the issue of the crabbing and skipping is occurring with all of the production GLC/C class AMG cars.

Gary/Kylie, Last week I needed to do a u-turn and my GLC did not respond at all well at low speed as whilst I turned it continued on straight for a few inches and the same happened one recent night when turning left into my home drive way, the left turn did not execute and the car continued straight for a few inches, this was not safe at all. These incidents are on top of the daily ongoing skipping/juddering/crabbing/skidding.

As you all know from my last few mails, I am disabled having no hands and I wear two below knee artificial legs and therefore I would say that safety is of paramount concern to me. My experience is that I do not feel the car is safe and I cannot trust it. I also am not having any enjoyment at all from the vehicle due to this issue. If I had been made aware of the issue before the sale then I would have not placed the order and would have bought something else.

Kylie/Gary and Steve, as an organisation at Mercedes Benz UK, I would like to please request some additional urgent consideration for my case.

What I would like; is to formally reject the car and request my deposit is refunded and any payments I have made to date so that I can return the car and order something else.

Please could you consider my case as a priority and reply back as soon as possible so that we can start this process.


Thank You.

Warm Regards


Dear Mr Siddiqui

I am sorry you are disappointed with my previous response, this was certainly not my intention.

To offer our assurances once more, following investigation completed by Mercedes-Benz Brooklands, this is a comfort issue and does not affect the safety or overall performance of your car. That said, I do appreciate your comments and we do recognise this remains a comfort issue for some of our customers and would like to reassure you that investigations are ongoing in the UK to try and minimise this characteristic.

We are therefore unable to support your request to reject your car and refunded your deposit and any payments made at this time.

Please rest assured, as soon as we have further information regarding this characteristic, we will of course let you know.

We appreciate that you remain disappointed by this characteristic, and understand this may not be the response you were hoping for, but this is our final position regarding this matter.

Kind regards

Kylie Skilton
CEO Office
Mercedes-Benz Cars UK Limited

So, in their last communication she totally ignored what you said about the car continuing straight on when trying to turn hard left or right. I think I would point this out very strongly.

 

[Flackadder]

My experience with MB (at whatever level) is ignore and deny. This is disappointing, as on the whole their vehicles are awesome.

 

[Alfie]

This juddering characteristic is a feature of the steering geometry and it is something that affects many many vehicles not just Mercedes Benz cars. Both my A classes and my B class did this when reversing on full lock. To claim it is a safety issue is ridiculous. As for saying the car went straight on when turning can only be down to a very slippery surface.