Motorbike rant :(

[SilverSaloon]

i have no problem with a bike weaving in and out of very slow/stationary traffic.... i'd do the same if i was a biker.... otherwise u may aswell drive a car

BUT there is no need to weave in and out of traffic doing more than 50mph and certainly not if they are doing the speed limit or more or less the speed limit. its the speed limit and they should respect that and stay behind. when the traffic slows and q's for lights etc then they can skip to the front of the q. in the space in the middle bwteen the 2 lanes.

many bikers (NOT ALL) think they rule the road as they are most-manouverable... and (as proven from this thread) think because they are experienced bikers they are riding safely even when they are infact riding dangerously.

if i undertook slow cars in the fast lane when there was a gap and then switched in and out of lanes in a CAR i would soon loose my licence. whats the difference for bikes?


on a side note, cyclists also ride down the middle going >20mph when there is traffic q's on 2 laned traffic. ok, until like the guy from last night - dark with with front lights. could not see him in RVM until he passed the car! he got hooted, no doubt he just shouted some abuse and carried on his way.....

 

[scotth_uk]

Any biker who rides sensibly within the law will have my utmost respect, tolerance and courtesy. I'm sure I'll find some one day.

The reference to "filtering" is interesting. I wasn't aware that there was a term for it. Shouldn't it work the same way as overtaking? Get out and back in again before the oncoming traffic arrives? I doubt that filtering is legal at all to be honest. It's probably just an interpretation of something in the highway code.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/10.htm
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.htm

Sorry bikers, but I have rarely seen many of those rules adhered to! And that's only a couple.

I'll never aim for a biker, as I am not at all that way inclined. Why cause confrontation when a little bit of tolerance would suffice?

Assume everyone else is an idiot on the road, and any sign of sensibility will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Sp!ke]

Well Howard... Lets hope we dont meet under similar circumstances hey

It does sound like you are recounting a different sort of tale than I TBH... When I filter, I do it with caution and I dont force oncomming cars to move. Its the cars that are trying to force me that I get freaked about.

Sometimes I do ride like an idiot (dont we all) but always do so when conditions and traffic permit.

 

[Howard]

I'm sure we won't Sp!ke ...

You're a considerate biker (where conditions allow ) and i am a considerate driver.... so its unlikely we'll ever cross paths like that...

 

[Sp!ke]

The reference to "filtering" is interesting. I wasn't aware that there was a term for it. Shouldn't it work the same way as overtaking? Get out and back in again before the oncoming traffic arrives? I doubt that filtering is legal at all to be honest. It's probably just an interpretation of something in the highway code.

You are right in a way in that it is a little sketchy. The only reference the highway code makes of filtering is for drivers to watch out for motorcycles filtering when entering junctions.

The nearest thing to an official line is:-

IS IT LEGAL TO FILTER HERE?

The letter of the law: Filtering is moving between two or more lanes of stationary or slow-moving traffic.

The reality: The ability to get through sticky traffic is one of the biggest practical advantages of motorcycling. Everyone acknowledges that, the police included. Since the difference between filtering and undertaking can be slight, the most important factor is how the undertaking/ filtering was conducted. It is a subjective issue, hence the confusion.
The speed differential between you and the traffic you're passing is important. If you re caught flying through gridlock at 50, there'll be little mercy, and rightly so. Moving cautiously through 40 mph traffic at 60 mph on a dual carriageway is unlikely to raise an eyebrow. As Thames Valley accident investigator Gary Baldwin puts it, "Once the speed differential becomes extreme, the sympathy vote quickly evaporates."
And you may need that sympathy vote. If there is an accident and you find yourself in court, you could face charges of careless or even dangerous riding. The verdict will be largely down to the jury who, going on pure statistics alone, are unlikely to have a motorcyclist among them. If you can convince them that your actions were both considered and reasonable, and that the me dent was the result of poor observation or sheer carelessness on the part of the third party, you should be all right. The more sensible you were, the more sympathetic they'll be. It's that simple.
Can you filter over zig zags on the approach to a pedestrian crossing?
The letter of the law: You can move up a line of stationary or slow moving traffic in a zigzag area, but not to the front. You must not pass the vehicle at the head of the queue.
The reality: One to stick to. Most riders treat passing through Zigzags with caution - by definition they're found in tricky areas.

Thames Valley Police Article (Filtering chapter is interesting)

http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/roads/safer-rider/car-users.htm

 

[guydewdney]

Filtering is legal afaik in all (sensible) situations..

When I filter along a motorway, I overtake when there are two cars side by side. Thus neiterh car can change lane into me - or they would be hitting a car side on - let alone me.

IF I do overtake when there is a suitable car sized gap, I move into that gap as far as practicable (weaving I suppose it might look like) just in case the moronic car driver changes lane into 'my' spot.

Can we drop the over generalizations here please? YES there are plenty of complete prats on bikes - but TBH most of them wont be about for very long

As Sp!ke stated earlier (but appears to be ignored) - I sometimes filter (carefully, and slowly very close to the stationary traffic on my side) up to a red light or similar. I often stop and wait if theres a wider car / car being driven closer to the line than necessary. I would NEVER expect someone (nor anyone I know) to kerb their car in order to allow me to pass.

I try, if it is safe, to say thanks in some way to anyone that lets me past in any way shape or form (be it a slight move across the lane, or a mirror-fold-in). It does anger me, when in my car, that soime bikers dont thank me...


Lets just all be nice and fluffy shall we? As my late grandmother said - "the thee most important words int he world are please, THANKYOU, and sorry"... its free fercrissakes..

 

[Dieselman]

What worries me here is the number of people saying that they wouldnt move out of the way for an oncomming bike filtering past traffic.

By doing this, who is being the moron? The bike rider (who is within his rights to filter) or the idiot putting people's lives at risk because he has a chip on his shoulder and wont use the available space in the road?

> Howard - Would you really rather kill some biker in preference to scuffing a wheel? Think about it mate because one day the biker may not find a gap and your decision to maintain your course could in fact be treated very unfavourably.

Sorry but this is an emotive subject for me as I have had car drivers deliberately aim at me (actually deliberately move over towards me) whilst shouting at me and waving their fists in anger. Had the driver maintained course nothing would be an issue and I wouldnt have had a near death experience.

Trust me when I say that the two people that did this to me won't be doing it again in a hurry - They are ever so tough when protected behind glass - less so when there aint no glass left

Spike

I think you will find "filtering" is when a motorcycle undertakes a stationary vehicle with the intention of turning left into a juction.
My understanding is that the reference is to warn drivers turning into the same left turn, or turning right across a queeu of traffic to be aware of motorcycles on nthe near side of the vehicle.
This is not meant to allow motorcycles to pass by either side of moving traffic under notrmal circumstances.

I personally have had an "experienced" biker force me to pull over into the side of a car I was level with to avoid a head on, due to him being on the wrong side of the road whilst trying to overtake the car as the road was narrowing. He would say he was filtering...... assuming that is being three abreast on a two lane carriageway..

In addition I have seen four or five bikers knocked off when passsing between the 2nd and 3rd lanes of traffic on the M1 in the rush hour. Unless the traffic is stationary they shouldn't be undertaking. When a car moves over who is to blame, I doubt it will be classed as the car drivers fault.

Why do you and other bikers feel that it is their right to A: intimidate other road users, and B: cause physical damage or assault when things don't go your way??
Just an observation.

Just my 2P.

Just so you know, I do actually give bikers extra room due to their additional vulnerability, and I do move over so they can pass between slow moving traffic.

 

[Dieselman]

It is illegal to reverse off your driveway on to a road, but that's kinda beside the point

Are you sure about this. I thought it was illegal to reverse onto a main road from a side road..

 

[Rumble]

I dont think drivers should necessarily move out the way for every oncoming biker that wants to part the sea! Bikers should have more common sense and regard for their own lives/safety to not overtake/speed/filter without forcing another driver to take unecessary action.

I would move out the way if in slow or standing traffic to let a bike past. But i dont believe i should be expected to scuff my wheels etc.

By the way im not a biker, but I can appreciate they have an advantage of speed and size so is it sometimes jealousy that people can stand letting them through.

Dont get me wrong there are bad bikers and good ones.

 

[Rumble]

If its not then it should be illegal to reverse out of your drive!!! My pet hate is people coming out of side roads fast and overstopping the line, $hits me up every time. Either they dont know how far their car stretches out, how good their brakes are, or dont simply care.

 

[del320]

....from the Forth Rd Bridge into Edinburgh city centre every morning....

Reduce your blood pressure - use the park & ride

 

[guydewdney]

Spike

I think you will find "filtering" is when a motorcycle undertakes a stationary vehicle with the intention of turning left into a juction.

I would NEVER do that - thats just silly - theres a high chance of a door opening, and / or the car moving again and turning left! Filtering is simply passing between slow / stationary traffic. Thats what bikes are for. If we were not allowed to do this - can you imagine the chaos in London? All those important documents being stuck in the rucksacks of bikes that have to stay in line?

<general rant>
A bike can out accelerate almost any car with ease. Uses a 1/4 of the space. Let them through, 'cos they are gone and out of your way in a nanosecond. Its not like you are going to lose your space in the queue!
</gr>

I personally have had an "experienced" biker force me to pull over into the side of a car I was level with to avoid a head on, due to him being on the wrong side of the road whilst trying to overtake the car as the road was narrowing. He would say he was filtering...... assuming that is being three abreast on a two lane carriageway..

In addition I have seen four or five bikers knocked off when passsing between the 2nd and 3rd lanes of traffic on the M1 in the rush hour. Unless the traffic is stationary they shouldn't be undertaking. When a car moves over who is to blame, I doubt it will be classed as the car drivers fault.

Just so you know, I do actually give bikers extra room due to their additional vulnerability, and I do move over so they can pass between slow moving traffic.

Um - if he was 'experienced' then he shouldnt have done that - he was / is a prat. I am a little unclear as to why you think he was experienced?

Interesting to note that you think that you 'shouldn't undertake unless the traffic is stationary' - so what happens when you are happily bimbiling along in the slow/middle lane, and suddenly (as often happens) the 'fast' lane suddenly slows right down? Do you slow down? No - of course not. Whats the difference?

And thanks, on behalf of all bikers, for edging over a tiny bit - thats kind, and appreciated, and all we need - some people appear to think that we want cars to leap off the side of the road! Its 18" wide guys.. not a foden lorry!

 

[graeme73s]

Surely its all about consideration for other road users something that over the past few years has become a thing of the past. I ride bikes and drive cars. I would not filter on a bike on the motorway unless the traffic speed had dropped below 50 mph. We all have our own perception of what is acceptable. If I am on the motorway sitting at 70mph officer (90mph) I am not looking out for a guy filtering through the traffic at three figures plus. My Mrs only got around to passing her test six years ago. After doing the commute from NW London to East London for a few months she refused to go on the back of the bike anymore as she only then realised as a car driver the dangers of riding a bike. It wasn't the dangers of riding a bike but the way that some bikers take the p**s. They think ther invincible and ride accordingly. For example Last Saturday I am on the way back from work and on a local dual carriageway. There's a guy on a Ducati that I can see in my mirrors weaving through the traffic riding like a prat, arm fulls of throttle and the bike unstable, for some of you, you know what I mean. I am at the front of the lights, he's in the lane designated for turning right. The lights change, he's off, 500 yards to speed camera 50 mph zone, hard on the brakes he's down to 40mph, through the camera big arm fulls of throttle, pissed off that I am still alongside him, did'nt bother to outbreak him into roundabout, next roundabout he turns right I turn left. Glares at me through his crash helmet not a happy bunny. The point is as an experienced bike rider I gave him the room to ride like a total wan**r. Potential outcome 2.25 tonne Ford F150 lightning pick up truck a small dent. Idiot riding a Ducati D.O.A. I would find it very hard to live with myself if I had taken someone's life just because at that moment in time I felt I had to make some form of statement ???.

 

[Dieselman]

Interesting to note that you think that you 'shouldn't undertake unless the traffic is stationary' - so what happens when you are happily bimbiling along in the slow/middle lane, and suddenly (as often happens) the 'fast' lane suddenly slows right down? Do you slow down? No - of course not. Whats the difference?

I don't go between two lanes of traffic travelling at 50+mph.

 

[Thmsshaun]

Come on now, lets all be happy again

 

[Spinal]

Wow this thread grew fast! I spend one day actually working and three pages of thread appear!

As for riders vs. drivers (I know its not as general as that, I'm just generalising because I'm dead)... well, how many of the people that are flaming bikers for weaving through traffic, overtaking on the wrong side of the road, undertaking, etc have actually ridden a bike in traffic?

I can say I have... recently, but I have. I can assure you that weaving is not my thing (I'm on a bike since 2 months and am dead scared when a lorry with wheels that are taller than me pulls up to a junction not 6 inches from my face...). In my opinion (as a learner rider with 'L' plates displayed visibly - I've been told this makes a big difference) its the drivers that tend to dis-respect the riders... I was told by most of my rider friends that the reason so many people give pure b*ll*cks is that you have 'L' plates; and once they are off, its payback time...

So, imo, why don't all the drivers take a CBT? It lasts less than a day, costs only £100 and allows you to see the aspect from the other perspective. Then I do believe you will realise that it is quite pointless waiting in a queue for a traffic light, when your vehicle can easily get to the front of that queue by filtering through the parked cars...

(I'm not targetting anyone... in fact, I'm not really taking sides either... I'm just saying, why don't the non-rider drivers have a try at riding a bike? I think everyone here has driven a car, so I can't tell the "riders" to try a car... can I?)
Michele

 

[Sp!ke]

What an emotive thread this is turning out to be!

Not so sure I agree with every-ones comments mind.

>Guy, you made an interesting comment that I'm not so sure I agree on.

I overtake when there are two cars side by side. Thus neiterh car can change lane into me - or they would be hitting a car side on"

Never be the meat in a sandwich!

I think I know where you are coming from in that if there's no gap, logic dictates the car wont try an go for it - but what if he did - you have nowhere to go? Be careful mate - be very careful.

"Why do you and other bikers feel that it is their right to A: intimidate other road users, and B: cause physical damage or assault when things don't go your way??"

I don't know where you are getting this from? I have only twice felt the need to sort things out my way in many years- On both occasions my life was seriously threatened by a deliberate and malicious act. Both these individuals will now think twice before performing such a stunt again on others. I don't think I need to justify a strong reaction after somebody has nearly succeeded in taking my life. The rest of the time I am a very courteous rider (albeit a bit swift at times)

Oh and you're way off on the filtering mate - Check the Thames Valley Police Link. http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/r...r/car-users.htm

Guy is quite correct in that the very worst place to be on the road is nipping up the inside of traffic alongside the kerb. Only newbies and those not yet aware how much car doors hurt take that line. The safest place to filter is straddling the white lines in the middle of the road.

 

[PJH]

......
Rather than educating the moronic, suicidal, idiotic bikers - the Government has to educate the motorists on how to look out for them.

Yes, lots of adverts saying "Think Bike", but no ads aimed at the bikers
saying "Think Car" or "Think 40 tonne truck".

 

[Sp!ke]

Yes, lots of adverts saying "Think Bike", but no ads aimed at the bikers
saying "Think Car" or "Think 40 tonne truck".

Ahhh thats because in over 80% of fatal motorcycle accidents involving cars, the drivers of the cars were found to be at fault.

(My insurance on my bike is only 30% of the cost of my car insurance - I guess the insurance companies have done their sums)

Besides, motorcyclists now have to go through far more stringent testing procedures than car drivers. A 17 year old wanna be biker now has to go through no fewer than 4 tests spread over at least two years before he can ride a 'proper' bike.

The hardest thing a learner driver has to do is reverse park.

 

[guydewdney]

Yes, lots of adverts saying "Think Bike", but no ads aimed at the bikers
saying "Think Car" or "Think 40 tonne truck".

they dont need to... if you dont, you are the pasty filling..

Sp!ke (why is that so difficult to type??) - the sandwich theory is right - but i have yet to be swerved at when doing so- i have brakes and am always at 2/3rds max torque when filtering - so have two escape routes...

Michele - you (as an Italian) have the advantage, as do most of europe, of having a population that allows mopeds to be ridden at 14/15/16 and a car at an older age. This means that the general populace has at least a basic understanding of the perils of motorcyling....

Someone (biker) once suggested that before passing ones car test, one should ride a moped through the city centre, at rush hour, with a flickering headlight and the left indicator wired permenantly on (and the front brake disabled).... you would know fear then!