My CLS55 Stage 3 Eurocharged

[BlackC55]

I really don't understand why people are so bothered about numbers on the dyno? One can read very differently to another. It all depends on so many factors.

A dyno is good for checking AFR's and a smooth curve.

If you want to see if you car is fast. Do a 0-60, a 1/4 mile or a Vmax event.

I couldn't give a $hit what figures my C43 puts out. Its how fast it goes in real life that is important to me.

 

[Lee C63]

I really don't understand why people are so bothered about numbers on the dyno? One can read very differently to another. It all depends on so many factors.

A dyno is good for checking AFR's and a smooth curve.

If you want to see if you car is fast. Do a 0-60, a 1/4 mile or a Vmax event.

I couldn't give a $hit what figures my C43 puts out. Its how fast it goes in real life that is important to me.

Totally agree.
Although after spending a lot of hard earned cash it is nice to have a print out that shows good figures. So you can at least be close to quoted gains you would expect after parting with potentially thousands of pounds.

 

[BillyCR]

I really don't understand why people are so bothered about numbers on the dyno? One can read very differently to another. It all depends on so many factors.

A dyno is good for checking AFR's and a smooth curve.

If you want to see if you car is fast. Do a 0-60, a 1/4 mile or a Vmax event.

I couldn't give a $hit what figures my C43 puts out. Its how fast it goes in real life that is important to me.

I think we all know how a dyno works and operates, while you may not care about your C43 Dyno results, persons spending money do, especially when trying to measure performance increases, if everyone has the same thought all the dyno operators inc manufactures may as well pack up and call it a day.

Each to their own, because you don't agree like some others on this forum, does not mean posts and comments are worthless, I for one am always interested in what tuning mods persons are doing, and if they have dyno results before and after even better, so no point knocking others for having comments that differ.

 

[ChrisA]

I think we all know how a dyno works and operates, while you may not care about your C43 Dyno results, persons spending money do, especially when trying to measure performance increases, if everyone has the same thought all the dyno operators inc manufactures may as well pack up and call it a day.

Each to their own, because you don't agree like some others on this forum, does not mean posts and comments are worthless, I for one am always interested in what tuning mods persons are doing, and if they have dyno results before and after even better, so no point knocking others for having comments that differ.

I agree, spending thousands and having no proof of increase in Power etc is pretty careless. How will you know if you've increased 10bhp or 40bhp as wouldn't be too noticeable on the road

I know the car is pushing out well over 600bhp but without a true figure, how do you know the work has been carried out as per Advertised figures?

 

[ChrisA]

I'm going to see Paul today, he is replacing my supercharger pulley. Going to see if I can do a couple of runs on his dyno and see how we get on :bannana:

Keep us posted Mike

 

[Lee C63]

I agree, spending thousands and having no proof of increase in Power etc is pretty careless. How will you know if you've increased 10bhp or 40bhp as wouldn't be too noticeable on the road

I know the car is pushing out well over 600bhp but without a true figure, how do you know the work has been carried out as per Advertised figures?

Chris as you are aware i had initial low figures on the Weistec install on a different Dyno and i was a little worried, but everyone said it was so much quicker and it left my mates E60 M5 for dead (Sorry) so i knew in my heart it was wicked but it still played on my mind. However, once i had it on the Dyno and saw the 634bhp figure it felt like a weight lifted off my shoulders.

Get it booked in at Sunderland the guy is a good dyno operator, and then you will get a fairly accurate figure he will tell you his Dyno is a BHP eater so add another 20-30 on the result.

 

[ChrisA]

Chris as you are aware i had initial low figures on the Weistec install on a different Dyno and i was a little worried, but everyone said it was so much quicker and it left my mates E60 M5 for dead (Sorry) so i knew in my heart it was wicked but it still played on my mind. However, once i had it on the Dyno and saw the 634bhp figure it felt like a weight lifted off my shoulders.

Get it booked in at Sunderland the guy is a good dyno operator, and then you will get a fairly accurate figure he will tell you his Dyno is a BHP eater so add another 20-30 on the result.

Yeah, feeling a little deflated Lee at the minute but it will all sort itself out

Add another 20-30, so did yours read 634bhp or did you add on to get to that figure?

 

[Lee C63]

Yeah, feeling a little deflated Lee at the minute but it will all sort itself out

Add another 20-30, so did yours read 634bhp or did you add on to get to that figure?

the 634 was from the dyno (on the print out) so in theory i could add another 20 or 30!!!!

 

[Alex]

I have to agree with Olly (BlackC55) on this. It's always better to under- than overestimate. No point in torturing a car on a dyno after every change. Being closer to the top of VMax list is what counts.

PS: Evolve dyno'ed my old N/A 55 and showed only 10HP increase over standard. The car had Stage 4 Kleemann kit with sc, headers and cams. The real life experience was very different to what was on the sheet.

PPS: Olly's C43 has a supercharged 55 engine, amongst other things. For those who don't know

 

[BillyCR]

Chris as you are aware i had initial low figures on the Weistec install on a different Dyno and i was a little worried, but everyone said it was so much quicker and it left my mates E60 M5 for dead (Sorry)
.

Did he leave the handbrake on Lee, or perhaps had large shoes, so pressed the accelerator and brake at the same time

 

[ChrisA]

I have to agree with Olly (BlackC55) on this. It's always better to under- than overestimate. No point in torturing a car on a dyno after every change. Being closer to the top of VMax list is what counts.

PS: Evolve dyno'ed my old N/A 55 and showed only 10HP increase over standard. The car had Stage 4 Kleemann kit with sc, headers and cams. The real life experience was very different to what was on the sheet.

PPS: Olly's C43 has a supercharged 55 engine, amongst other things. For those who don't know

I understand what you and Olly are saying but some of us won't be going to Vmax or Santa Pod

What's important for me is a figure to compare to what is advertised after forking out thousands. If it's pretty close then all good, if not then there's a problem

Yes, the car feels much much quicker. The AFR is spot on and the torque is mad so should I be content? Maybe I should hit Vmax and aim for the 200mph mark

Opinions are what makes for a decent forum so thanks for all your input

 

[Lee C63]

Did he leave the handbrake on Lee, or perhaps had large shoes, so pressed the accelerator and brake at the same time

No and i had a load of garden rubbish in the back and a bag of sand and cement......He only weighs 8 stone aswell

 

[BillyCR]

No and i had a load of garden rubbish in the back and a bag of sand and cement......He only weighs 8 stone aswell

Yep just found his shoes

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=r...DwAw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1518&bih=748&dpr=0.9

 

[simon1966]

The dyno debate will run and run. Some will always say they are a waste of time where others will swear by them.

I think we all know that different dyno's would give different figures on the same day in the same conditions. To my mind the dyno should just be used as a reference point for each stage.

The route Chris and EC have taken to me is the only sensible approach, where the car has been put on the same dyno before and after each stage. Now; the figures may not be what was expected or hoped for but at least it can be seen what gains were made after each mod. This is probably as controlled as things can be in real life. I know conditions will not be 100% the same between the runs but.....!

I have read on this forum several times posts by members saying the only way of knowing is to go and do timed 0-60 or 1/4 mile runs etc, but to me this is just as flawed (or even more so) than the dyno approach. I don't care what anyone says but being able to get consistent sprint runs is almost impossible with these cars as launch can vary massively. Ok use it as a guide but where mods are concerned a dyno would act as a better reference.

People that know me know I am not concerned with headline figures, to me it is far more important that my car runs well and safe! To give an example of how things can vary, my car was on the dyno at the MSL tuning day last summer where it achieved 544bhp and 618lb/ft (on dyno dynamics), not bad and probably average for the mods I have. I could have got more out of it but Jerry knows I want it running a safe map. It ran very well after Jerry tweaked the tune. A couple of weeks ago I was having a few things done at EC and took the opportunity to get my car on their dyno (same one Chris' car has been on). 517bhp and from memory 622lb/ft, so 27bhp down!! I then had the car remapped (to try out a slightly different tune for low down response), back on the dyno 503bhp and 615lb/ft, so 41bhp down and some loss of torque. So not great news from figures alone but.....

There is one important thing that also needs to be taken into account and that's the maps take some time to adapt! I remember Jerry saying to me at MSL that the power will typically increase by 10 - 15bhp or so once adaptions had taken place. This was proved on my car as out of interest when at EC my previous map was then reloaded, then back on the dyno again, this time 507bhp, so 10bhp lower than the original run before remapping. So to me I now have a good reference of where my car is at on different dynos and if I get any more tuning done at EC I already have base figures.

My car has also been on the SRR dyno (dyno dynamics), where it achieved similar figures to MSL. Now I'm sure I could get a run booked in there and get figures more to my liking but......

It just goes to show how the dyno figures can vary and from what I have seen and heard, pretty much every modded 55K that has been on the dyno at EC have shown similarly relatively low bhp figures

 

[Ginger55k]

Modifications:

82mm TB
Kleeman Headers
168mm Crank Pulley
84mm EC S/C Pulley
550 injectors
Bespoke Exhaust system incl. X-Pipe
Quaife LSD
EC Stage 3 custom remap


I then went back last week for the 82mm TB, Crank Pulley and S/C pulley + remap and the dyno read 587bhp. This was done when the Supercharger was hot (No split cooling ) and then did a 2nd run 2min later and read 565bhp. If I had done the 1st run with a cool S/C I would probably have seen a 600bhp+ reading

That's a huge amount of modifications which will seriously stress the crap cooling system, the exhaust mod will help to reduce temps but everything else just ramps them back up.

Whats the point in having over 600 bhp on tap if 5 minutes down the road the cars had enough and the ECU is doing everything it can to safeguard the engine i.e. dumping fuel/pulling timing, even on my cooling thread you could see huge gains through each stage of the process, i did not need a dyno to tell me the difference, i could feel it.

For those serious enough to spend a huge amount of money modifying the 55 variant i will state this again and again the cooling will always catch you out, the battle is and always will be temperature control.

 

[BlackC55]

And we can help help with that!

 

[simon1966]

That's a huge amount of modifications which will seriously stress the crap cooling system, the exhaust mod will help to reduce temps but everything else just ramps them back up.

Whats the point in having over 600 bhp on tap if 5 minutes down the road the cars had enough and the ECU is doing everything it can to safeguard the engine i.e. dumping fuel/pulling timing, even on my cooling thread you could see huge gains through each stage of the process, i did not need a dyno to tell me the difference, i could feel it.

For those serious enough to spend a huge amount of money modifying the 55 variant i will state this again and again the cooling will always catch you out, the battle is and always will be temperature control.

Think Chris has already said he is getting cooling mods sorted within next couple of weeks.

 

[Ginger55k]

Think Chris has already said he is getting cooling mods sorted within next couple of weeks.

Maybe that should have been the first thing on the shopping list, we are lucky in this climate in the UK, over the pond in hotter climates you would not see a car with that many mods without running split cooling meth or kc to combat the extreme temps.

Cooling does not sound sexy though does it

 

[simon1966]

Maybe that should have been the first thing on the shopping list, we are lucky in this climate in the UK, over the pond in hotter climates you would not see a car with that many mods without running split cooling meth or kc to combat the extreme temps.

Cooling does not sound sexy though does it

You're right Ginger - cooling doesn't sound sexy but as you know better than most its probably the singular most important thing with the 55K's. I think my car has same mods as yours and I wouldn't consider further performance mods before I dealt with split cooling. The only thing I am contemplating before cooling is headers as they have no detrimental effect and if anything help a bit (well that's what I keep telling myself anyway!).

I'm interested to see how your system copes in the hotter months.

 

[BillyCR]

Maybe that should have been the first thing on the shopping list, we are lucky in this climate in the UK, over the pond in hotter climates you would not see a car with that many mods without running split cooling meth or kc to combat the extreme temps.

Cooling does not sound sexy though does it

Chris A already has a EC Heat Exchanger, and Bosch 10 pump, and all the data logging I did in the height of the summer, always showed the temp tumble, after hard runs, if I thought split cooling was the way forward, I would had done it.

I have also seen 2 x e55 running split cooling and I can assure you both struggled with temp control just like the rest of us, when it came to the dyno.

On the road I cant see why Chris would struggle with high temps especially at this time of the year, and if it was a problem I am sure Paul would had advised not to do one without the other.


Just my thoughts