Performance Diesels

[Dieselman]

You don't need smoke to make power.

One of the primary concerns for VW when tuning the racing Golf was to not make smoke, likewise Banks Tuning.

Pretty Quick.

And again.

 

[SJL]

forgot about that , so at a push i may just get standard figures what an anti climax i need to bolt another turbo on!!!!!

 

[Dieselman]

No. You need to find why it might be underperforming in the first place. Quite possibly the MAF will be dying and then think about airflow, reducing heat soak, then increase fuelling to suit.

If you can increase airflow the EGT goes down and the turbo works less hard.

 

[SJL]

so along the lines of better filter or air path to engine , intercooler maybe then re map to suit . but as i understand with a normally aspirated engine the require a bit of back presure for the engine to run right , so for a turbo engine the exaust path with least resistance would be helpful

 

[Dieselman]

All engines want the least resitance for best cylinder filling, reduced exhaust pressure makes the turbo spool quicker and faster.

A ram effect intake, free flowing tubing, polished turbo housing, larger capacity intercooler, freeflow exhaust manifold and pipe, etc, will see EGT go down.
Then add fuel and boost (if required) to produce more power whilst keeping EGT under control.

 

[SJL]

sounds like a lot of one off fabrication ( money , money,money) coz i can bet there wont be much if anything that would be off the shelf!!!

 

[evdok]

Firstly make sure your car is outputting the standard figures, it's probably not.
Say it's had a drop off of 25%, then the increase from tuning is only bringing it back to standard anyway.

Took a jaguar 2008 XKR on a rolling road befor and after a remap, standard should be 420bhp...it had 389!!! & 432 after

 

[SJL]

scary and thats an 08! i notice you have a chipped e320 cdi tell me more pls!!!!

 

[evdok]

Mine is remaped, & loving it! loads of grunt, smoother, better fuel if driven normally.

 

[SJL]

where / how was it done if you dont mind me asking and what did you pay?

 

[evdok]

so mainly the opinion is got it done properly by a diesel tuner , and find the best medium with power gain --- egt

i belive the bhp is 200 depending on model have no idea how to find out and torque is about 500n/m

and i would roughly expect 240bhp ish and 600n/m torque woulf that be a fair guess???

Original bhp : 195
Original nm : 470
BHP increase : 35
NM gain : 72
Lb/Ft gain : 53

 

[TomTanderson]

Mine is remaped, & loving it! loads of grunt, smoother, better fuel if driven normally.

I look at these threads and the voice in my head shouts "no such thing as a free lunch"- I can understand you can change the parameters of an engine and get more power but there has to be a cost or manufacturers would do it. The same (especially) goes for better fuel economy. So what am I missing (apart from a good psychiatrist for the voice in my head)?

 

[BTB 500]

The argument is normally that manufacturers' standard ECU maps are designed to take account of all possible variations in fuel quality. Hence if you are driving in the UK (for example) and only ever using good quality forecourt fuel, it's possible to re-map to extract a bit more power.

But obviously producing more bhp and torque will apply more stress to both the engine and all the drivetrain components. So in that respect there isn't any such thing as a free lunch. The normal response to that is that the drivetrain components are massively over-engineered, and/or they are common to higher-powered versions of the same vehicle. But it's interesting to note that M-B reduce your vehicle warranty from unlimited mileage to 60k miles when they fit a Brabus box.

 

[st13phil]

Thanks to Dieselman's posts in this thread I'm starting to understand more about the upsides and downsides of the typical tuning boxes.

I look at these threads and the voice in my head shouts "no such thing as a free lunch"- I can understand you can change the parameters of an engine and get more power but there has to be a cost or manufacturers would do it.

I think Dieselman has already given good insight into some of the longevity issues that can arise regarding the engine and turbo. The other main issue is that drivetrain components really do take a hammering from the increased torque. This is why the VW group took so long to make the 1.9TDI PD engine available in 130hp and 150hp form - the increased torque over the 115hp variant caused premature failure of the gearboxes and they had to design a new 6-speed box that could withstand the torque and maintain a good life expectancy.

I'd suspect that drive-train longevity is the main reason why MB limit the warranty to 60k miles with the Brabus boxes fitted.

 

[se97mlm]

The normal response to that is that the drivetrain components are massively over-engineered, and/or they are common to higher-powered versions of the same vehicle. But it's interesting to note that M-B reduce your vehicle warranty from unlimited mileage to 60k miles when they fit a Brabus box.

That certainly used to be the case, but since the year 2000 approximately, there are different drivetrain components for the lower powered models to save cost. C200cdi and C220 cdi in the W204 are a good example: the gearbox in the C200cdi is rated for only 270Nm, which is why this model only has this amount of torque. It was originally planned to have 330Nm with this engine like in the E class, but that would have been too expensive in terms of gearbox.

Regards
Matt

 

[Uberwagon]

If it smokes on a modern diesel, it's not been done properly.

If you saw EGTs of 900°C, you would be pretty close to having an engine bay fire i'd guess. That is extremely high and sustained temperatures like that would do lots of damage.

Dave!

 

[evdok]

If it smokes on a modern diesel, it's not been done properly.

If you saw EGTs of 900°C, you would be pretty close to having an engine bay fire i'd guess. That is extremely high and sustained temperatures like that would do lots of damage.

Dave!

Very true.

 

[glojo]

With a 210, why spend a lot of money tweaking the diesel to get better preformance when the E55 is becoming a very cheap buy?

All the mechanicals on the 55 are designed for performance driving, the 320 is the 320.

I wish you luck

Regards
John

 

[SJL]

A fair comment but its a big thursty petrol , probably not a massive amount worse than a 320 cdi but i love diesels , i also own a golf gt tdi .
i think the power and torque from the merc is brilliant which has made me want more!!!!

 

[lynall]

Apparently a TD5 is quite happy so long as its kept under the 900 deg thats two differnt tuners telling me that and from my own experience ie its still running, and dont forget the 900 deg c is pulling flat out up my favourite hill (blue bell hill) which is long and hard.

Had it for nearly 4 years and was never any bother from the engine.

Always ran on synthetic oils in engine all trans etc.

Dual mass flywheel went but TD5 is famous for this at about 100k anyway.

The list was stage 2 chip/remap, large intercooler, silicone hoses, egr removal kit, k+n filter, boost controller (21psi), and a lot of people have gone a lot further its a pretty tough engine if looked after, on the other hand its a nightmare if not!

It would smoke (very light haze) in the std state of tune and almost every other TD5 i saw was the same, one tuner lent me several chips from different tuners and i tried them all some were just noticable and others were amazing, admittedely i drove it hard, but conversely looked after it and engine oil was changed at 5k.

A lot of people think the main chip is changed/remapped but its actually the reference chip that is changed/remapped, ie the main chip gets all the parameters from the sensors etc then asks the ref chip for an answer,, this is where the power comes from.



Lynall