Possible engine swap?

[Will]

Well a TT conversion is probably a much more logical choice as has been said, still not going be all that cheap though - cost of the kit, maybe a 3.2 M104 engine, then the cost of fitting etc. No doubt a fair few other bits that you'd want to consider uprating as well with such a power hike, then the insurance complications to consider.

Still looking at a good few ££££. And it's not a V8, which is what Niks specficially wanted (?)

Will

 

[d w124]

Sadly a competent shop could probably put an old chevy v8 in there in less than a day and it'd cost you under a grand. It wouldn't be much faster but it would certainly sound the part

That`s the spirit

 

[d w124]

Still looking at a good few ££££. And it's not a V8, which is what Niks specficially wanted (?)

Will

I`n not saying you`re wrong,but is still a fast w124 + what`s wrong with fitting TT on his engine?The 3.2 m104 only has around 20 hp more,so i don`t see a point
Nick if is noise you`re after,is this to much http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wRhmj5sggk

 

[Niks]

Ok I understand how everyone has their own opinions about this, which is great as a few things have been mentioned which I haven't even considered...especially the insurance complications.

On another note, I did spend around 6 - 7 months searching good and hard for a E280 and finally came across one in the colour I wanted, the exact cream leather interior with the walnut burr wood combo, A/C and climate control with a sunroof too and finally a 5-speed box. It was a bonus that this car was totally mint in terms of being rust free and with only 74,000 on the clock this time last year with a purr'ing engine.

So within this time I have thoroughly enjoyed driving the car and its always a big pleasure the moment I get behind the steering wheel. I've driven a W202, W210 and a few others and believe me it will never give me the satisfaction of what the W124 gives. As you get used to the car, you also get used to the power and what the engine is capable of as well, so a time comes where you do wish you had more power available.

The major thing what Matt mentioned was, I know my car inside out. I know what needs to be done on it and whats working perfectly fine. Yes its true I did post a comment on another thread to another member that its better buying another car rather than spending money doing things to it. Yes I feel stupid about it now and wish I hadn't because come to think of it now, I know how much I love my car, its of a sentimental value and I couldn't even begin to tell you how much I am obsessed over it. Yes call me mad or crazy, but hey, isnt thats what being called an "enthusiast" is all about? otherwise what are we all doing here? Plus, im sure theres a section in the latest mercedes enthusiast featuring a 190E 2.6 chassis car with a Blue-Tech or Efficiency diesel engine conversion in there producing more bhp and torque than a 190E 2.5-16 EVO II (245bhp), so obviously someones gone to great lenghts and time to marry old school with new technology and has clearly worked. I guess it was done purely for the love of pre-95 cars.

I know I wont find another rust free W124 with the same spec/options as what I have right now in a long long time. Im not saying its perfect as there are some things which need attention, but she brings a smile to my face in her own way. She talks to me when something is wrong and gives me a sign but won't die on me on the road. She will just keep on going with that same problem because she knows I will sort it out asap. She looks after me on the road and I look after her, simples.

Yes I do crave the V8 sound and can imagine how it would be in my car. Theres nothing better than just cruising and listening to that V8 rumble away, especially when you pull up to the lights. Maybe it won't be a C43 engine, or a M119 or a E55 engine, could even be a Chevy 350 V8 or a Corvette LS1...who knows. All I know is right now, im just researching to see what options are available.

As for what I want right now, a quicker W124 with more than just the 197bhp as compared to todays standards isn't much.

 

[Will]

Niks - I know where you're coming from, and I can understand your attachment to your car. It's clear that it's a nice W124 and the spec/condition are just what you want.

But - would you really spend £10k, maybe £20k even to fit a C43 engine to it?

Would it be worth it?

I think the most sympathetic conversion would be to fit a '36 AMG engine. Having said that, why not just buy this:

Mercedes : MERCEDES W124 E36 AMG CONVERSION STUNNING

RHD, rust free and the same colour as your car

You could then sell your existing car on to recoup some of the cost.

Will

 

[blondebier]

Niks, it is certainly possible.

As other's have said, if you have enough money and will power most things are possible.

Have you see this?

http://mercedes-190.co.uk/topic/227323http://mercedes-190.co.uk/topic/227323/1/

(You might need to be a member of the forum to read it though...)

A very brave guy took a M119 and shoe horned it into a W201. It's a beast of a car and a real testament to the guy that did it.

He wanted a unique car and created it.

If you want a W124 with a C43 engine in it then I'd say go for it.

Make sure you take lots of photos and put it in the project section too.

 

[Niks]

Now that is an awesome machine! A conversion/project on a 190E with a M119 is totally understandable as there was no such thing as a 190E 5.0 from factory. However, there is the E500/500E from factory, so it doesnt make sense to put a M119 into a E280 chassis.

Its a huge dilemma at the moment. These are my options so far...

1) Engine swap with a 3.2 M104 from a S320 which has 231bhp?
2) Engine swap with a 3.6 M104 which has 272bhp?
3) Twin Turbo install on the 2.8 M104 and hope for 300bhp?
4) Save up and buy a E500?

or...

Keep my car standard and buy this

 

[74merc]

One option that hasn't been mentioned - a LHD E420.

 

[mattc]

Niks - are you planning to do the work or are you paying someone else to do?

Personally if you want more power I would go down the turbo route on your existing engine. Use a Splitsecond timer to control fuelling. Look at Janners post about his conversion and you can guess that on the standard pressure setting (0.4 bar IIRC) you will probably develop 280 bhp and about 310ft/lb torque. Of course you can run the system for a while at that pressure and then increase boost on a rolling road for more power.

I guess you want a reliable system so dont boost too much otherwise your gearbox will be the first casualty

Regretably Mark Eley would have been your man to talk with about this.

 

[Niks]

Hi matt, yea if i decide to have any conversion done then i will have to get someone else to do it for me as im no good with mechanical stuff like that under the bonnet.

The TT turbo setup sounds more promising as then I can keep everything else in the car. Where would I find a turbo technics conversion kit and what turbo's would be able to use?

What im after is good reliability which means I can still use the car for everyday commute driving and then have some fun on the way home or taking the car on long journeys. Ive heard that the bigger turbo's cause more turbo lag and the smaller ones spool up a lot more quicker. Which turbo's would I use and are these still available?

 

[mattc]

A complete kit (if you can get one) should include an exhaust manifold, 2 turbos, intercooler, a full stainless exhaust and pipework (though maybe not all that is required). Perhaps someone can confirm that it comes with a fuel timing device but I think its pants and you are better off with a newer device (split second,megasquirt??)

At a GTG i seem to remember Mark saying the theoretical limit on these 2 turbos was about 360bhp if boosted (though this could be phantom memory syndrome!)

 

[Will]

Hi matt, yea if i decide to have any conversion done then i will have to get someone else to do it for me as im no good with mechanical stuff like that under the bonnet.

The TT turbo setup sounds more promising as then I can keep everything else in the car. Where would I find a turbo technics conversion kit and what turbo's would be able to use?

What im after is good reliability which means I can still use the car for everyday commute driving and then have some fun on the way home or taking the car on long journeys. Ive heard that the bigger turbo's cause more turbo lag and the smaller ones spool up a lot more quicker. Which turbo's would I use and are these still available?

The Turbo Technics kits used to be about £6-7k, plus fitting IIRC. But the UK MB dealer who used to offer these conversions (Hughes of Beaconsfield) sold off a load of old stock over the last couple of years for a ridiculous price - around £1k + VAT IIRC.

Maybe enquire with them if there's any available, but I'm pretty sure they're all long gone.

That would leave you with a few options:-

1) Try and source a kit that someone may have bought, but is yet to use (quite rare - and many will be looking for more than the original cost!)

2) Find a good car that already has the TT conversion

3) Have your own installation made up of bespoke parts - very expensive/complicated

Did you take a look at the blue-black, facelift W124 saloon in the link I posted? It has a 3.6 litre AMG engine fitted to it, suspension upgrades and has had a £3k repaint etc. Quite similar to your car + what you want to achieve?

Will

 

[d w124]

Did you take a look at the blue-black, facelift W124 saloon

You mean prefacelift + if it`s to buy another car,Pringels E36 is a better option

 

[Will]

You mean prefacelift + if it`s to buy another car,Pringels E36 is a better option

Yep - I was typing from memory

But to say that Pringles' E36 is a better option - you must know that an original car is almost always better than a conversion!

Will

 

[Niks]

Cheers guys. Just spoke to Olly and he recommended to leave my car alone or go for a E36 conversion as the TT kits are designed for the 3.2 and not the 2.8 so there could be possible fueling issues which could complicate things.

I did have a look at that Black E36 conversion Will so cheers for that. It seems very reasonable for the money but then again, insurance complications and also I'll be wanting to convert it back to the facelift look. Plus now there's Pringle's E36 which looks like a very sensible option.

 

[mazza]

What im after is good reliability which means I can still use the car for everyday commute driving and then have some fun on the way home or taking the car on long journeys. Ive heard that the bigger turbo's cause more turbo lag and the smaller ones spool up a lot more quicker. Which turbo's would I use and are these still available?[/QUOTE].



Hi Nick

you want everything dont you???lol...surprised you didnt add "and it has to do 60mpg" he he!! I'm just messing with you..

seriously now! If you go with a TT conversion, then your options for an inline 6 are: small turbos working in parallel, 1 manifold per turbo, small turbo lag but turbos boost at the same time in one big tyre melting, tramsmission warping wave.

one big fat tubo running from a single manifold...I hope you are quite good at drifting...coz its going to happen when you least expect.

or spend a bit more money, get yourself a decent standlone ECU and run the TT set up in sequential mode. see Toyota supra and others..this is the best set up to for a straight six..one turbo deals with low rpm...when you go to shops or a quick drive down high street to look at eye candy etc. and one turbo to deal with higher rpm for when you want to get home really quick coz you are desperate to do a wee.

a good ECU to deal with this will cost you approx 1k, but wont hold you back in the future if you wish modify the car further..

good luck mate

mazza

 

[grober]

It would appear these guys are now offering MOSSELMAN forced induction kits for German cars Aftermarket supercharger and turbo kits for Audi, Mercedes and BMW They are new to me so don't know what they are like. Evidently Mosselman now offer vortex supercharger kits for the straight 6 BMW engines so might not be too difficult to transfer/modify the technology??? You would end up with a pretty unique car with lots of bottom end torque!! But it wouldn't be cheap!! 4,600 euros for a kit for the 2.8 litre E46 ENGINE plus any mods required. Simpler than a twin turbo setup with no high under bonnet temps to worry about. Worth a look???

 

[mazza]

It would appear these guys are now offering MOSSELMAN forced induction kits for German cars Aftermarket supercharger and turbo kits for Audi, Mercedes and BMW They are new to me so don't know what they are like. Evidently Mosselman now offer vortex supercharger kits for the straight 6 BMW engines so might not be too difficult to transfer/modify the technology??? You would end up with a pretty unique car with lots of bottom end torque!! But it wouldn't be cheap!! 4,600 euros for a kit for the 2.8 litre E46 ENGINE plus any mods required. Simpler than a twin turbo setup with no high under bonnet temps to worry about. Worth a look???

Hi!

Defo! I'm a fan of superchargers...in particulary the "Rotrex " range..easy to bolt on...runs from the Vbelt and has its own oil supply/cooler..and as you quoted, less underbonet temps.

mazza

 

[Niks]

LOL.. maz, go look on your driveaway and u'll see your AMG is missing...it looks much prettier sitting in my driveway than yours!! lol.

Hmm, superchargers or turbo's. If I do go for the turbo route, it wont be a turbo technics one as it wont work on my 2.8, so I'll have to make a whole kit up somehow.

What will the BHP difference be between a supercharger and the twin turbo route? Whichever way, I need to know that my gearbox, drivetrain and rear diff will be ok to handle the power. No point in me doing all that and then the engine decides to eat the rest of the mechanicals for breakfast!

 

[grober]

Well the Mosselman site is quoting 193bhp/280Nm torque before and 280bhp/335Nm after at boost 0.45 for the 280 engine so the torque isn't unmanageable ? It will come considerably earlier tho I would guess