Problem with dealer I recently purchased SL500 from

[jeremytaylor]

When I've sold cars privately I take debit card payments through my wife's business card machine as it is soo much easier (and next door to our house). Her business is nothing to do with car sales.

 

[Vlad]

I have to go9 with Mudster on this one and the fact that you viewed the car twice, got the car at a knock down price.......if you took it up with Trading Standards I think they wouldn't have much sympathy.

I see the comments people make re the "Rights" you have buying from a Trader, however, it is a fact that the Courts also look at if from the Traders side of things as well, which in this instance was that the car was sold below market value, a discount of £200 was given at the point of sale due to the non working seat, the car had been viewed twice and its a 9 year old car with @90,000 miles

I personally dont think you would get very far if you were looking for compensation

 

[aka$h]

I viewed the car when I went to collect, but my bank wouldnt aurthorsie the transaction. The 2nd time was just to collect. When I checked the AC the 1st time I was sure it worked but was weak (9pm a month ago, it wasnt warm outside).

Id expect an immaculate on to be £12-13k as it has a non pano roof. The exterior work alone is around £2k, plus the cost of having the leather sorted. I dont see what the price has to do with anything, its what the bidders dictate, if it was too cheap it should have had a reserve.

Im not trying to srounge money back of a chap thats sold his own car, Ive been in that position myself.

Some of you may recall me thread a few years back:
http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/general-discussion/42587-legal-obligation-after-sale-car.html

I sold a car that we'd owned for 3 years, and the bloke was unhappy, I spent my money and resolved the issue. And Im not a trader, it was what I made the choice to do.

If it costs me an extra £1000 to get things right, its not the end of the world but is this practice correct?

The SL wasnt on his autotrader website, and I now know why.

 

[iscaboy]

I've looked at and read the advert.

Your problem is you are in a grey area, grey because you do not have irrefutable hard copy proof of any of the things you need to prove the vendor is a "motor trader" in Law.

The district judge in any small claims track is going to look at the fact that you paid less than ten grand for a flash convertible top of the range car less than ten years old.

The district judge is also going to look at the fact that the vendors description does not eliminate any of the issues you are having, or make any of the claims you imply he made verbally or otherwise.

The DJ will also note that you bought the car with an almost expired MOT, which in itself speaks volumes.

If you're not happy with your purchase, sell it on, a.s.a.p.

If you go to Court it could take a year, and you're unlikely to win "big", if at all, and the phrase that everyone is going to utter is "caveat emptor"

Suck it down, learn, and move on.

 

[aka$h]

Easily checkable on a viewing/VIN check.

Not so easy on any of the SL ltd editions, they all come up as basic spec.

 

[Mudster]

I just had a look at the advert and did not see any reference to the seller being a trader .

Is it not the same with eBay as with a newspaper advertisement that a motor trader is obliged to disclose his status ?

I think Mudster's point about a private sale would be fine if the trader can show that he bought and actually ran the car himself for a period of time ( the test I would apply there is whether he actually registered the car to himself as opposed to returning the trader's part of the V5 to DVLA ) .

If the seller only took this car in recently and never registered it to himself then it is clearly a trade deal and not a private one .

The car has been bought via auction - I think you'll find it doesn't matter if the seller is private or not but as this is overridden by the fact it was an auction.

It was also bought as a private sale, in so much as the seller had not stated he was a trader and the account on eBay is that of a private individual.

If this were a fixed price "Buy it now" or classified advert it changes the parameters. But this is an auction and is no different to buying from Blackbushe etc...in which case, what warranty would you have on a sale any auction firm for the points raised?

 

[Charles Morgan]

I've looked at and read the advert.

Your problem is you are in a grey area, grey because you do not have irrefutable hard copy proof of any of the things you need to prove the vendor is a "motor trader" in Law.

The district judge in any small claims track is going to look at the fact that you paid less than ten grand for a flash convertible top of the range car less than ten years old.

The district judge is also going to look at the fact that the vendors description does not eliminate any of the issues you are having, or make any of the claims you imply he made verbally or otherwise.

The DJ will also note that you bought the car with an almost expired MOT, which in itself speaks volumes.

If you're not happy with your purchase, sell it on, a.s.a.p.

If you go to Court it could take a year, and you're unlikely to win "big", if at all, and the phrase that everyone is going to utter is "caveat emptor"

Suck it down, learn, and move on.

I agree with your conclusions, but I think an invoice in the name of a car dealer would be taken by a court as a pretty convincing piece of evidence that the vendor was a car dealer. Res ipse loquitor...

Assuming at best that the car was sold by a dealer, that it counted as a trade sale governed by the Sale of Goods Act, the car would have to have been misdescribed (which given the advert is so brief, that would be tough), or the car was not of merchantable quality. I suspect an air-conditioning fault is not the sort of thing that in an old car would render the car so.

Speak to Consumer Direct, but I would be sceptical you would get anywhere.

 

[Mudster]

OK, I'm new to trading on cards with my business, but I'm 99.9% sure that I had to tell my bank what the nature of my business transactions were going to be when I applied. And my gut feel is that there's some bit of the Ts&Cs saying I shouldn't use the facility outside of the nature of that business without authorisation. (Genuine interest on this - not just picking an argument!)

I did run this past my accountant before I took transactions, in case it was considered some obscure form of money laundering.

There's no issue unless your card agreement restricts the transactions which you can take (mine doesn't) plus there is the consideration of the risk of chargebacks from credit cards, which is why I prefer debit cards if it's private transaction (yes I know they can have a chargeback - but it's a different process to credit cards)

 

[iscaboy]

I agree with your conclusions, but I think an invoice in the name of a car dealer would be taken by a court as a pretty convincing piece of evidence that the vendor was a car dealer. Res ipse loquitor...

Except the OP states...

The top of the invoice is from Courtyard Cards

 

[Mudster]

I agree with your conclusions, but I think an invoice in the name of a car dealer would be taken by a court as a pretty convincing piece of evidence that the vendor was a car dealer. Res ipse loquitor...

Assuming at best that the car was sold by a dealer, that it counted as a trade sale governed by the Sale of Goods Act, the car would have to have been misdescribed (which given the advert is so brief, that would be tough), or the car was not of merchantable quality. I suspect an air-conditioning fault is not the sort of thing that in an old car would render the car so.

Speak to Consumer Direct, but I would be sceptical you would get anywhere.

Does the sale of goods act apply to Auctions, internet or otherwise?

 

[aka$h]

Looking at this site:
Buying on internet auction sites

It seems, if the seller is a business then there is some form of come back. But as a private seller, nothing.

If Ive got it wrong, Im happy to leave it as it stands. Thats the purpose of this thread, rather than going ahead with anything more.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Mudster - as I said earlier, it isn't an area of the law of which I know anything. Some googling reveals some pretty poorly described advice on the subject, but one consumer site made reference to Ebay not being an auction per se, rather a site that introduces customer to seller, not an auctioneer in the physical sense, where you buy the goods from the auctioneer. I haven't the time today to do research on it. One thing stands out above all others - most government advice websites on simple consumer law are rubbish.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Except the OP states...

The top of the invoice is from Courtyard Cards

I took that as a typo, given the first post linked to Courtyards Cars.

Of course, if it is a gift card shop, then that kind of changes the facts.

Just shows the importance of proper spelling!

 

[iscaboy]

Look, take it from someone who knows.

1/ redacted - ok the vendor is a dealer

2/ you paid beer money for a champagne product.

3/ Your own presence here will brand you in Court as an expert in MB

Your only recourse is the one open to all people, trade sales or private, which is that a vehicle must be "roadworthy", which does not mean it must pass an MOT, it means it must not be a danger to other road users, and you've been complaining about peripheral stuff.

You forked out £10k on a dog, get over it, clean the car up, MOT it, write a GOOD advert (but do not lie) and stick it back on ebay asap.

This (last car I sold) is a GOOD advert, if it had been like the advert for your merc it would have gotten maybe 25% of the selling price it did.

YOU made a judgement call, YOU are not a novice, YOU got burnt, this happens, now ask yourself if you are going to continue to spend hundreds of pounds on peripherals on a car that has an almost expired MOT, or are you going to get shot and get your money back and buy a car you will be happy with?

 

[aka$h]

I took that as a typo, given the first post linked to Courtyards Cars.

Of course, if it is a gift card shop, then that kind of changes the facts.

Just shows the importance of proper spelling!

Sorry yes it was a TYPO, the invoice is from CourtYard CARS

 

[iscaboy]

I took that as a typo, given the first post linked to Courtyards Cars.

Of course, if it is a gift card shop, then that kind of changes the facts.

Just shows the importance of proper spelling!

You could be right, a quick google
Courtyard Cars | Quality Used Cars in Berkswell | Homepage

none of which changes the facts, the OP bought the car cheaply, he bought it in person, he is an MB-phile, it's still going to come down to a protracted legal battle, with at best a small win at the end of a year or more.

 

[st4]

Its probably worth persevering with.

None of the faults are that major and if its a nice car keep it as you've already outlayed a fair bit of cash on it.

 

[Charles Morgan]

You could be right, a quick google
Courtyard Cars | Quality Used Cars in Berkswell | Homepage

none of which changes the facts, the OP bought the car cheaply, he bought it in person, he is an MB-phile, it's still going to come down to a protracted legal battle, with at best a small win at the end of a year or more.

Agreed, and as Akash has said he got the spelling wrong, so it was Courtyard Cars.

I can never remember who said it, but the Law is like the Ritz Hotel, open to everyone, and I know from experience, dining at the Ritz can be both expensive and not particularly great.

 

[iscaboy]

Agreed, and as Akash has said he got the spelling wrong, so it was Courtyard Cars.

I can never remember who said it, but the Law is like the Ritz Hotel, open to everyone, and I know from experience, dining at the Ritz can be both expensive and not particularly great.

Yes, I have some experience of litigation myself, and I can quite easily make a very good case for the vendor.

1. the car was dirt cheap for what it was
2. the car was inspected, twice
3. the buyer is an aficionado
4. the problems cited are minor and to be expected on a used car
5. etc

 

[BTB 500]

Sorry to hear of your problems, must say I'm surprised at the list of faults on an R129 that's 4 years younger than mine (albeit with more miles).