R63 AMG - Collecting Cars

[bolidemichael]

All models with an AMG engine will have been co-developed with AMG involvement right from the very earliest stage of design and development.

However the only models to have been fully designed and developed by AMG are the SLS and GT, and coming soon the new SL and One (hypercar).

Even the SLS and GT were not built in Affalterbach, instead they were built just down the road at Sindelfingen along with many other Mercedes models.

Ultimately though it’s all one company and all engineers are equally capable, so who designed and built it matters less than what was designed and built.

PS The R 63 AMG is a “proper” AMG if that’s what you’re pondering.

I was in no doubt of that and quite familiar with how AMG are built. Mike's post was a bit of a curve ball as he suggested that it was somehow no more than a trim level, which clearly isn't the case.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I was in no doubt of that and quite familiar with how AMG are built. Mike's post was a bit of a curve ball as he suggested that it was somehow no more than a trim level, which clearly isn't the case.

Oh OK.

 

[Will]

Genuine question - but what does it matter where they were built? Not sure if I’m misinterpreting some of the responses here but it’s almost suggesting that somehow by the R-class being assembled in the US that it was inferior and as a result didn’t sell as well, either due to perhaps build quality or design - a slight dig? I genuinely don’t think this is the case

Mercedes-Benz and AMG would have set the specifications and design brief etc so would ensure quality is consistent and meets their standards wherever the factory happened to be. The parts to make a modern MB come from all over the planet and as said AMG build all of the engines (and the M156 is not without its own foibles either!). My GL63 was assembled in Alabama and I can say hand on heart it is of identical or better build quality to every other MB I have owned (dozens!). It would have made no tangible difference to UK sales had the R63 or R-class in general been made in Germany or anywhere else for that matter.

The obvious reason why these were made over in the US is because that’s where they were going to sell most of them. USA = large market for SUVs. It wouldn’t make sense to assemble these in Europe to ship them thousands of miles when you can build and deliver them more efficiently (and quickly) in the USA. The G wasn’t built in Germany either and that doesn’t seem to have affected sales (do they handle any better than an R - I can’t see that they would? And does an R63 drive that badly for an SUV or something - I would expect they’d be as good or better in that respect as an ML63 for example)

If it was simply a cost cutting exercise MB would have probably set up factories in far cheaper countries before then and built more models overseas.

IMHO, had the R-class have been assembled in Europe or had rock hard suspension tuned for the autobahn etc I’m not sure it would been any more popular as a result. Even if it was an Affalterbach special build or had some kind of motorsport appeal etc I really don’t think it would have sold any better, especially if it had increased the price or delivery times for the main market buyers (US)

It is what it is, a quirky 6.2 litre SUV that guzzles fuel and cost a lot of money new. Had it been better looking I reckon they’d have sold more but that’s only my opinion

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Genuine question - but what does it matter where they were built?

I'd say that it does, as the Tuscaloosa design and quality back in the late Nineties and early Noughties was a bit rubbish on both the ML and R class. Not so much in the GL, for sure, but that's a different class of vehicle. Fine for the American market .... perhaps.... but of limited success in Europe.

And this is not just a comment about the unsuccessful R63, it's a broad comment about the entire R-class range which MB admitted was quite a failure. No-one wanted this too expensive "luxury minivan" without sliding doors and it had to be dumped into the hands of unwilling buyers through large discounts. The market was moving on to SUV's and crossovers.

Things improved in the late Noughties, for sure, but the 2007 R-class was of its era.

And those complaints about "European" SUVs manufactured in the USA aren't unique to MB. The same criticisms were levied at the Spartanburg BMW X5.

 

[Will]

I'd say that it does, as the Tuscaloosa design and quality back in the late Nineties and early Noughties was a bit rubbish on both the ML and R class. Not so much in the GL, for sure, but that's a different class of vehicle. Fine for the American market .... perhaps.... but of limited success in Europe.

And this is not just a comment about the unsuccessful R63, it's a broad comment about the entire R-class range which MB admitted was quite a failure. No-one wanted this too expensive "luxury minivan" without sliding doors and it had to be dumped into the hands of unwilling buyers through large discounts. The market was moving on to SUV's and crossovers.

Things improved in the late Noughties, for sure, but the 2007 R-class was of its era.

And those complaints about "European" SUVs manufactured in the USA aren't unique to MB. The same criticisms were levied at the Spartanburg BMW X5.

To save the effort of unnecessary research on my part, could you elaborate on the build quality or design issues - I’m not particularly convinced that this would have had much to do with sales of the R-class though. I doubt many people who were in the market for one of these would have known (or cared!) where the factory was located

Certainly the late 90s/early 00s period was not MBs finest point for build quality (rust, electrical issues etc) - but that was nothing to do with where the cars were built and a lot more to do with design and specifications of materials and processes etc (paint and bodywork wasn’t great for a start - and I’m not on about the R-class!). Still that didn’t seem to affect sales a great deal and certainly not in the long term?

You touched on the issue of cost, and I still think that along with the aesthetics were the biggest challenges to sales. Who wanted to spend c. £80k (?) on a thirsty SUV type car that was neither an S-class in terms of luxury, ML in terms of purpose or E-class estate in terms of practicality? A G-class is no better but a good few people buy those for the image and looks. My GL63 is quite thirsty but for me is a good fit in terms of space, pace and seating capacity. If I didn’t need as many seats I’d still be driving an E-class with an AMG engine no doubt

I guess a £30k people carrier and £50k sports car may be better suited to people who want to cover those bases over two separate vehicles but that’s the nice thing about MB and AMG - plenty of choice of models to suit all kinds of lifestyles

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

To save the effort of unnecessary research on my part, could you elaborate on the build quality or design issues - I’m not particularly convinced that this would have had much to do with sales of the R-class though. I doubt many people who were in the market for one of these would have known (or cared!) where the factory was located

Certainly the late 90s/early 00s period was not MBs finest point for build quality (rust, electrical issues etc) - but that was nothing to do with where the cars were built and a lot more to do with design and specifications of materials and processes etc (paint and bodywork wasn’t great for a start - and I’m not on about the R-class!). Still that didn’t seem to affect sales a great deal and certainly not in the long term?

You touched on the issue of cost, and I still think that along with the aesthetics were the biggest challenges to sales. Who wanted to spend c. £80k (?) on a thirsty SUV type car that was neither an S-class in terms of luxury, ML in terms of purpose or E-class estate in terms of practicality? A G-class is no better but a good few people buy those for the image and looks. My GL63 is quite thirsty but for me is a good fit in terms of space, pace and seating capacity. If I didn’t need as many seats I’d still be driving an E-class with an AMG engine no doubt

I guess a £30k people carrier and £50k sports car may be better suited to people who want to cover those bases over two separate vehicles but that’s the nice thing about MB and AMG - plenty of choice of models to suit all kinds of lifestyles

Well, Google is my friend, so here's a few links. Most of my comments were based on my memories of ML criticisms two decades ago.

Bear in mind that only 200 R63's were made for global sale, or which a mere 12 made their way to the UK. Tiny volumes.

Criticisms of the R63 handling: Mercedes-Benz R-Class - Wikipedia

Collapse of sales after original launch



Discussion about Alabama quality issues back in 2007: Build Quality from Alabama plant? - MBWorld.org Forums

Fixing Quality issues in Alabama: D/C rushes to improve M-class

Second lowest quality score on JD power in 2005: Gale - Product Login

 

[E55BOF]

It may be just the angle, but that metallic maroon one (post #52) really does look good.

 

[Bertybuoy]

Link

R63 AMG on Collecting Cars. About as rare and 'cool' as they come

It’s interesting to read some of the assumptions made here, but I own one and can assure you that it always puts a smile on my face whenever I’m in it!
Fantastic versatility, great luxury and always rewarding - especially when you unleash the 507 horses!
It is a ‘sleeper’ and does surprise most people that come across it. I’ve owned E Class estates and MLs and I can say with my hand on my heart, this is better than both of them. Currently on 124k miles and subject of an aesthetic and mechanical refurbishment, I hope to keep this car for many years to come.
I’ve seen a few come up on Bring a Trailer, the most recent a few weeks ago which sold for around $35k I think… definitely an appreciating model, even if it’s just because it’s one of the rarest AMGs on the planet!!

 

[Goldeneye]

It’s interesting to read some of the assumptions made here, but I own one and can assure you that it always puts a smile on my face whenever I’m in it!
Fantastic versatility, great luxury and always rewarding - especially when you unleash the 507 horses!
It is a ‘sleeper’ and does surprise most people that come across it. I’ve owned E Class estates and MLs and I can say with my hand on my heart, this is better than both of them. Currently on 124k miles and subject of an aesthetic and mechanical refurbishment, I hope to keep this car for many years to come.
I’ve seen a few come up on Bring a Trailer, the most recent a few weeks ago which sold for around $35k I think… definitely an appreciating model, even if it’s just because it’s one of the rarest AMGs on the planet!!

Welcome pal yeah I think the comments generally reflect the initial sales figures. At the time I guess people didn’t see the point of spending such a huge chunk of money on a seemingly ‘pointless’ car and would rather buy either the ML63 or S63.

But IMO the rarity, uniqueness and ‘surprise factor’ when you give it a cheeky rev or put your foot down at the lights is enough to make this a cool bit of kit glad to know you’re enjoying your time with it

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

It’s interesting to read some of the assumptions made here, but I own one and can assure you that it always puts a smile on my face whenever I’m in it!
Fantastic versatility, great luxury and always rewarding - especially when you unleash the 507 horses!
It is a ‘sleeper’ and does surprise most people that come across it. I’ve owned E Class estates and MLs and I can say with my hand on my heart, this is better than both of them. Currently on 124k miles and subject of an aesthetic and mechanical refurbishment, I hope to keep this car for many years to come.
I’ve seen a few come up on Bring a Trailer, the most recent a few weeks ago which sold for around $35k I think… definitely an appreciating model, even if it’s just because it’s one of the rarest AMGs on the planet!!

I don’t think we’ve ever had a member with an R 63 AMG, so you are now the resident expert! How long have you had it?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Auction now under way.

Now clear that it’s Tanzanite, rather than black, which must improve its appeal.

Sat at £10k now. What’s it worth?

The top two bidders will set the price…

 

[E55BOF]

Tanzanite, you say? Black interior, though.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Tanzanite, you say? Black interior, though.

I thought that strange too.

 

[oldguy57]

Auction now under way.

Now clear that it’s Tanzanite, rather than black, which must improve its appeal.

Sat at £10k now. What’s it worth?

The top two bidders will set the price…

I suspect that if it stays around that price it will reappear very quickly at a dealers for £25/30K, with the usual "very rare/ never found/collectors/ investment opportunity, type overblown waffle.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Tanzanite, you say? Black interior, though.

Tanzanite "they" say. Although looking through the heavily colour saturated photos again this morning, it still looks very black.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Still tempted. It’s a big old thing to hide from Mrs D though.Tanzanite is a lovely colour, which a shame it doesn’t have a lighter interior - alpaca grey leather and panoramic roof would have been ideal.

 

[C240Sport97]

My old CLK55 was tanzanite blue .. a really dark blue. Gorgeous to my eyes.

 

[E55BOF]

My CLS SB is Cavansite, with beige leather. That's why I bought it, really...

 

[E55BOF]

I suspect that if it stays around that price it will reappear very quickly at a dealers for £25/30K, with the usual "very rare/ never found/collectors/ investment opportunity, type overblown waffle.

Like "Prime Minister of Malysia's London Car", you mean? 'S bollocks, innit... It's an upmarket seven-seater, first registered to the Malaysian embassy, I'd say.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Like "Prime Minister of Malysia's London Car", you mean? 'S bollocks, innit... It's an upmarket seven-seater, first registered to the Malaysian embassy, I'd say.

Amen, not a diplomat's car in size or performance, and if it had been for Adbullah Ahmad Badawi, it would have done microscopic mileage, because such people aren't in the UK that often. Less than a thousand miles a year could be expected.

As you say, more likely a general Embassy car, or the toy of a prominent functionary permanently assigned to the UK.