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Re-Map or Tuning Box!

Yes, i do need reassurance.......my V70 T5 Volvo was remapped and just got it done no problems but with a Merc. i just want to be sure it will do no great harm!

I love the motor to bits even though it is not new but almost bang on for condition, so i don`t really want to damage the engine if it can`t take the extra horses...

I simply don`t trust all these mappers that throw adverts everywhere and also sell tuning boxes that have to be turned down otherwise limp mode....i just want a few reports from C320CDI V6 engined owners that have had remaps.......

Being new to Mercedes i have just found out through my reading that a diesel badged C350 has the same engine as mine but is 261bhp so that is sort of telling me it may be ok to remap safely....
 
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I ran a re-mapped 2006 320CDI CLS for around 30k and had no problems whatsoever, it was done by Celtic Tuning.

Alfie
 
I ran a re-mapped 2006 320CDI CLS for around 30k and had no problems whatsoever, it was done by Celtic Tuning.

Alfie

What mileage was the 320 on Alfie? is the 350 remapped? if not, why not?

(Sorry for all the questions :crazy:)
 
I ran a re-mapped 2006 320CDI CLS for around 30k and had no problems whatsoever, it was done by Celtic Tuning.

Alfie

Thank you for that ALFIEBEARD......it coincides with my trip am today to Ashford Kent where i found an agent for Celtic Tuning and he told me what you have just said and also so far had no customers returned for the remap to be removed or put back to std.

So after all this time i shall be making an appointment for sometime next week for my 2hr remap.....i will in due course report back.
 
Well this thread was started in November last and i still don`t have another map on my motor!...

I keep asking questions where i go and also where i read but never seem to get a definite answer...

So now at present i have been looking at this place



Just to add to the confusion. ;)


I always map my cars, and so far the winners for me have been DMS remap on my 535d and the Brabus box on my 320cdi, same engine as yours.

The Brabus box doesn't just sit on the fuel rail but also the turbo, and the gains were not subtle.

Because of this I had a go with the CRD-T+ that you linked to above on our BMW X3 20d. This box is amazing, it is so far the most impressive gain I have had with tuning.
I have the more agressive power curve selected and have increased the power to the +20% mark.

Now, I am not sure what the BHP is as I haven't put it on a rolling road, but using an AP22 Race Tech Timing Meter I am getting 8.4 seconds to 60mph stock and with the box that is dropping to 7.2 seconds, so from 184bhp to 220bhp that sounds right. Using an online BHP calculator...

0-60 mph Calculator for Cars


Also, look on eBay, I paid £150 for this one instead of £429.
Basically any for the 3 litre Merc will fit.
 
Yes, i do need reassurance.......my V70 T5 Volvo was remapped and just got it done no problems but with a Merc. i just want to be sure it will do no great harm!

I love the motor to bits even though it is not new but almost bang on for condition, so i don`t really want to damage the engine if it can`t take the extra horses...

I simply don`t trust all these mappers that throw adverts everywhere and also sell tuning boxes that have to be turned down otherwise limp mode....i just want a few reports from C320CDI V6 engined owners that have had remaps.......

Being new to Mercedes i have just found out through my reading that a diesel badged C350 has the same engine as mine but is 261bhp so that is sort of telling me it may be ok to remap safely....

Understood. Well I ran my ML320 CDi for 40k with no issues and a friend brought the car off me, and has since got 80k further on it and still happy. Apart from the usual issues non have surfaced which can question the map.

I understand where you are coming from so let's go through the tuning world and give you some advice from all angles to see if this helps.

Firstly tuning boxes. What do they do? Well very simply a cheap tuning box is a simple pot which adjusts the voltage from the common rail sensor to fool the car that there is not enough fuel going into rail. As with diesel tuning the very simple way is, the more fuel that goes in the more power it will make (Very crudly described). There are some more expensive tuning boxes that can adapt at different points along a customised curve, and some others which go into your injectors and/or MAP sensor and some work well producing good power.

However, no-one can argue that a well calibrated remap to your car isn't better. But this opens a whole new box of worms.

There are numerous mapping companies out there who claim their maps are custom, but all they do is read a file, it's encrypted and sent off to their master tuner. The master then writes the file, encrypts the data and sends it back to the slave tuner. The slave tuner flashes the file in, doesn't know what is in there and gives car back to the customer. Which in practice works well if the master tuner actually understands the car, rather than simply percentage based increases across the board. 4% on boost, 25% on torque limiters, rail pressure 2-3% unless they are feeling brave etc. Effectively as generic as they come.

When tuning a car you need to develop and see how things react based on logs/dyno feedback etc. For instance as you say the 7G has a torque limit. So whacking 25% on the torque limiter is going to be 25% harder instantly under full throttle, and can effectively ruin the gearbox. However progressively bringing in the torque on the car is a nicer drive as well as being more mechanically sympathetic to the car.

For example on your engine I would not raise the torque massively below 2000rpm, except to smooth it out to get rid of the flat spot. Boost pressure I would be at maximum 1.52bar progressively built up and kept smooth.

I've seen some typical generic remaps on some late cars, such as the later 2012 C350 CDi engines with 265bhp, with fault code errors, broad percentage changes and using large amounts of boost to get the feeling or more boost. A proper calibration will use the correct amount of boost based on fuel/torque/drivers wish etc.

On this engine keeping it smooth, progressive torque delivery and the car will perform superbly well.

DPF removal if your car is fitted with one is no problem, as EGR removal.

On your car if it is the last of the W203 chassis then you should ideally want:

224bhp Standard - 260bhp Tuned
510nm Standard - 605nm Tuned

As with any diesel, it's all about the torque.

Hope that helps. Ask any questions :)
 
Firstly i want to thank you BFT for your time for me in writing out that above post....it is what i needed to give me the reassurance that i was lacking.

Well...glad to report i had my re-map done yesterday ...no, not a tuning box as i wanted in the first place but one download to the ECU direct in the car....

I went to a Celtic Tuning Agent in Ashford ,Kent just 20miles away so just ideal without all that travelling yet far enough for me to see what the difference was on the way home....down the M20!

The process took about 2hrs and was all carried out while i waited.....kept me busy with tea and a very usefull chat about Mercs.

Did a first road test and was not overly impressed....i have 14 days to have it reverted back to normal....but on the way home after a series of large squirts of WOT and also steady progressive acceleration the motor seemed to learn very quickly what i wanted from it and today after a few fresh starts the power has come through in a way that i am very impressed with....

Very, very lively in "S" Mode from a standstill but even more impressive is the acceleration on the move mid range speeds....the box copes with the quicker gearchanges even 1st to 2nd which is alarmingly quick, the need for kickdown is not so much needed as the progressive throttle opening suits it better (just as BFT said in his post about the higher torque)....

I am not going to mention the price but will say it did beat all the comparisons out there with lower given performance figures by a fair margin!

The figures quoted by Celtic Tuning for my motor are 290bhp up +66 and the torque comes in at a whopping 628Nm ........these figures are supposed to be average and can be a couple either way.

One thing is for sure , those that say the figures are well over the top are don`t really know about these maps as my Volvo V70 T5 with a remap was about 280b bhp this Merc is far smoother and quicker through the gears than i could ever manage with my 5 speed manual on the Volvo.....and it is far quicker, so i do think some 0-60 times are needed.

I have already noticed the fuel figures on the dash don`t correspond with the amount of quick driving i have been doing and show better than before.

Just want to thank you all for your help on this thread.....
 
Firstly i want to thank you BFT for your time for me in writing out that above post....it is what i needed to give me the reassurance that i was lacking.

Well...glad to report i had my re-map done yesterday ...no, not a tuning box as i wanted in the first place but one download to the ECU direct in the car....

I went to a Celtic Tuning Agent in Ashford ,Kent just 20miles away so just ideal without all that travelling yet far enough for me to see what the difference was on the way home....down the M20!

The process took about 2hrs and was all carried out while i waited.....kept me busy with tea and a very usefull chat about Mercs.

Did a first road test and was not overly impressed....i have 14 days to have it reverted back to normal....but on the way home after a series of large squirts of WOT and also steady progressive acceleration the motor seemed to learn very quickly what i wanted from it and today after a few fresh starts the power has come through in a way that i am very impressed with....

Very, very lively in "S" Mode from a standstill but even more impressive is the acceleration on the move mid range speeds....the box copes with the quicker gearchanges even 1st to 2nd which is alarmingly quick, the need for kickdown is not so much needed as the progressive throttle opening suits it better (just as BFT said in his post about the higher torque)....

I am not going to mention the price but will say it did beat all the comparisons out there with lower given performance figures by a fair margin!

The figures quoted by Celtic Tuning for my motor are 290bhp up +66 and the torque comes in at a whopping 628Nm ........these figures are supposed to be average and can be a couple either way.

One thing is for sure , those that say the figures are well over the top are don`t really know about these maps as my Volvo V70 T5 with a remap was about 280b bhp this Merc is far smoother and quicker through the gears than i could ever manage with my 5 speed manual on the Volvo.....and it is far quicker, so i do think some 0-60 times are needed.

I have already noticed the fuel figures on the dash don`t correspond with the amount of quick driving i have been doing and show better than before.

Just want to thank you all for your help on this thread.....

Who is the Celtic tuning agent in Ashford? I live there and didn't realize we had one.
 
Glad to hear that you made the choice Keith, would really be interesting to feel the difference from a stock 320cdi to a remaped first hand.
 
Did you go for Economy or Stage 1 ??

I went for stage 1 as i was told the economy would still improve from standard and so far as i can tell it has!

Is it really worthwhile doing for Economy? I always thought it was for improved performance?


The performance now is quite staggering compared with the standard motor which as we know is quite good.

I have been over my normal thrashing roads including uphill main dual carriageways and the box may not always drop down but the extra go it has the car decides not to drop gears as it doesn`t need to, the progressive pull is much more than before and that was with it dropping gears....

The engine is much smoother also but in S mode one has to tread gingerly with the throttle as it is so lively and really responsive...it will go from 1st to 2nd also instantly as it has the extra torque to carry through it is not so reliable on the lower gear to hang on longer.

I won`t tell you how quick i came back from the tuners but at high speed my dash said 33.5mpg and i did know that it should say 29 or 30 that was for about 30miles using Shell Nitro Diesel only.

when i collect the car last November at 70mph over 116miles it achieved 39.9 but i haven`t tried it yet.

Hope this helps?
 
I've seen some typical generic remaps on some late cars, such as the later 2012 C350 CDi engines with 265bhp, with fault code errors, broad percentage changes and using large amounts of boost to get the feeling or more boost. A proper calibration will use the correct amount of boost based on fuel/torque/drivers wish etc.

I wonder who's ecu that was John :rolleyes:
 
Very late reply

What mileage was the 320 on Alfie? is the 350 remapped? if not, why not?

(Sorry for all the questions :crazy:)

Sorry for the VERY late reply, The CLS 320 CDI had around 45k on it when I had it re-mapped, I had no problems at all during the following 30k that I drove it, and it had a pretty hard life:rolleyes:.

The next car I bought was a Jaguar XF 2.7 D and I immediately had that re-mapped by Celtic and ran that for 25k again no problems and increased fuel economy approx. 4mpg better.

My S350 CDI Bluetec has not yet been re-mapped mainly because it has had engine performance enhancement (according to the build file) and it goes like stink as it is...but last week I had Kevin from Celtic Tuning in our workshop for a chat and I may go for a re-map on the S350 which I reckon should be awesome.:thumb:

Alfie
 
Thank you for that ALFIEBEARD......it coincides with my trip am today to Ashford Kent where i found an agent for Celtic Tuning and he told me what you have just said and also so far had no customers returned for the remap to be removed or put back to std.



So after all this time i shall be making an appointment for sometime next week for my 2hr remap.....i will in due course report back.



Have a read of my post from the other day you may find it useful.


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Sorry for the VERY late reply, The CLS 320 CDI had around 45k on it when I had it re-mapped, I had no problems at all during the following 30k that I drove it, and it had a pretty hard life:rolleyes:.

The next car I bought was a Jaguar XF 2.7 D and I immediately had that re-mapped by Celtic and ran that for 25k again no problems and increased fuel economy approx. 4mpg better.

My S350 CDI Bluetec has not yet been re-mapped mainly because it has had engine performance enhancement (according to the build file) and it goes like stink as it is...but last week I had Kevin from Celtic Tuning in our workshop for a chat and I may go for a re-map on the S350 which I reckon should be awesome.:thumb:

Alfie



Do it!!!!! I had my E350 CDI done and I can't complain at all. On the rolling road it made 332.7bhp with a lovely 520pound ft. And that was the avg figures over 3 runs.

Check my post from the other day all about it. Might be helpful


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